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  #1441  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 5:32 AM
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Oh oh oh, can I play?



Also, is there a way to shrink the damn thing?
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  #1442  
Old Posted May 10, 2018, 9:59 PM
cganuelas1995 cganuelas1995 is offline
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For real though, I think there should be an agency in BC that operates intercity highway buses, connecting BC Transit jurisdictions, as well as a connection to Metro Vancouver.

I'll edit this is a bit and put some more details down here.

Last edited by cganuelas1995; May 10, 2018 at 10:46 PM.
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  #1443  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 12:52 AM
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I haven't done this whole image hosting thing so here's a Dropbox link to a map I made.

I don't think that many more Skytrain lines are going to be created in the next 20 years (unless we want to go bankrupt) so I limited that and did more B-line and Express style buses (orange lines) to feed into Skytrain. I also included the SFU gondola now that they're talking about it again.
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  #1444  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 1:04 AM
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Lavender line is farmland/industrial for the majority of its length and a non-starter. Makes way more sense to have a line along the south of Vancouver linking up with the Expo to get from richmond to surrey.
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  #1445  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 2:00 AM
trofirhen trofirhen is online now
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Arrow scryer's plan

Quote:
Originally Posted by scryer View Post
Lol I forgot how to upload images.

Anyhow before in this thread I created a transit fantasy and I am going to post a more updated version of what I had envisioned for Vancouver. This is my updated map with some small changes:



Dark Blue = Expo Line
Yellow = Millennium Line
Dark Green = Evergreen Line
Light Blue = Canada Line
Purple = West Coast Express
Solid Orange = Surrey LRT
Light Green = Arbutus LRT
Pink = Downtown/Jericho LRT
Spotted Orange = B-Line Buses
Gray = Long Distance Passenger Trains (like Amtrak)

Overview

One great advantage that we have to our Skytrain system is its interlined portions of the network. Currently someone from Burnaby could theoretically hop on the Skytrain from Waterfront and take it all the way to their home in Sperling Lake while the person beside them can take a train all the way to Surrey. Because of the frequency of the trains in our current system, the interlined portions actually lends itself as an efficient 'sorting' system for commuters without (arguably) overcrowding in one station; and at the same time reduce the number of transfers. I am looking to exploit that advantage as well as other advantages that are overlooked in our system.

I don't think that I got the shape right for the Millennium line, so my apologies for the rookie-mistake there .

I felt like my map needed an update based on the direction that I feel that the city is going in. Unfortunately I think that Vancouver is going to get in bed with LRT so I wanted to update my transit fantasy to potentially reflect this reality.

With LRT I am going to assume, in this fantasy, that the Surrey LRT happens (*legasp*). But I am also going to assume that Metro Vancouver is going to learn a very basic and expensive lesson about grade-integrated LRT: it is not rapid transit!! Therefore the city will use LRT as a means of being able to handle larger capacities of people where it makes sense, and where it is not possible to build more skytrain lines. And since they purchased the damn trams anyways, they may as well use them as best they can. Because LRT is not necessarily rapid transit I did not list all of the stations that they would stop at, except for a few key stations. Also I am assuming that they will be electrical and/or totally green. Because if we are going to invest in some LRT piece of s... it may as well be environmentally friendly.

Expo Line

The Expo line gets extended south to Langley Central. It becomes the backbone of Surrey's transportation like it became the backbone to Vancouver's network. Surrey and Langley will then work together to redesign transit routes to feed into this new spine. As it has been proven with Translink's data, most of Surrey's and Langley's commuters are commuting within Surrey. Therefore this strong spine of rapid transit is warranted; and with it all being elevated, it makes this part of the extension very inexpensive when compared to the rest of my map.

The Expo line returns to its original interlined state that was in place before as the Millennium line will obviously increase in capacity warranting the same size of trains to be used on both lines.

Notice that Granville station is missing? Don't worry, it is still there but it is renamed as Vancouver City Centre station. And this station will be a transfer point where a commuter can transfer to any Skytrain line in the network so that it is convenient for the average commuter.

I feel that on a rapid transit network, not enough emphasis is placed on congestion-control. Vancouver City Centre station would obviously be redesigned to comfortably handle and easily transfer passengers to whichever line they desire to travel on. It will have upgrades similar to the Canada Line so that people feel confident that they are getting on the right train. Now this station serves as a major point of congestion-control on the network because it divides the focus from Waterfront station. Instead of trying to cram all of the lines into one station, encouraging everyone in the city to transfer at Waterfront, I figure that it is okay in this situation to take the heat off of Waterfront and making Vancouver City Centre the next busiest station in the network. Not only that but Waterfront already has severe people and engineering restrictions. With Vancouver City Centre, we can comfortably dig up Granville street and expand exponentially underground.

Another station that deserves mentioning is Stadium-Chinatown station... this station also serves as an element of congestion control because it would be a major transfer point to the different LRT lines that go through downtown. People can transfer here or at Waterfront if they want any of those downtown LRTs.

Because there are congestion-reduction strategies in place to try and relieve some pressure off of Waterfront Station, there isn't really too many changes here. However the addition of the Arbutus and Granville Island LRT lines may encourage development length-wise for Waterfront Station. Essentially Waterfront station has the potential of becoming a complete nightmare so careful and effective developments need to be made.


Millennium Line

Now let me introduce you to the Goliath known as the Millennium line. This beast solves the 99B-Line over crowding issues, serves as a second alternative for people south of Fraser to get to the airport, serves as a relief line to the south, and also shows Richmond and Surrey some love at the same time! With all of these functions and purposes, the Millennium line becomes the heart of the Skytrain network and now completely overshadows the Expo line.

As soon as it is possible the Millennium line will surface when heading west towards UBC. This is to reduce the costs of constructing. However I gave the Millennium line a twist: it goes to YVR.

You see, as Vancouver continues to grow so does our airport. And I'm not sure which way it would expand but I do expect that YVR will eventually expand so that it needs a rapid people moving technology to move someone from terminal 1 to the brand new terminal 2. Seeing as how we are moving people, why not continue using Skytrain technology connecting the people of the Lower Mainland even more efficiently to the airport?

The Millennium line will serve as a major connecting point to UBC and the airport, from the city; I would argue that these two destinations are/will be the most popular travelling outside of Vancouver. Not only would the Millennium line serve as a relief line to the airport, but it will also serve as a relief line to the Expo line as it continues east to Surrey and the Guildford Town Centre.

Evergreen Line

I bet you thought you would never see this guy again? Well you thought wrong!

Rising from the grave, the Evergreen line serves the people of Coquitlam, Port Moody, Port Coquitlam, Pitt Meadows, and Maple Meadows. But it doesn't stop there; it goes all the way into downtown Vancouver's west end (which needed some loving) and into the heart of North Vancouver. When it hits downtown, its all downhill and underground from there as to not disturb the densely populated neighbourhoods and Stanley Park's natural beauty.

The only transfer station within downtown Vancouver, is the Vancouver City Centre station.

When I first did this line, I always thought that I should have extended it past Port Coquitlam and into Pitt Meadows and Maple Meadows... and that's exactly what I have done. But don't get me wrong, I think that at some point it becomes ridiculous to have Skytrains extend everywhere and that there needs to be a faster train service at some point. I would only extend the Evergreen line and the Expo line to Maple Meadows and Langley Centre respectively.

Canada Line

Hopefully with longer trains and longer platforms, this line gets a simple extension out to Steveston which will have express buses to the Tsawwassen Ferry terminal (moved from Bridgeport). Even if the Canada Line didn't get the extended platforms/trains, the Millennium line would bring a ton of relief making the Canada line liveable again.

Bridgeport would be given a heavy makeover to become a main interchange and bus station.


Surrey LRT

I'm going to start with the LRT that is, unfortunately, most likely to happen and that makes the least sense in the Metro....

Every city makes its mistakes. But unfortunately for Metro Vancouver and for Surrey, this mistake is a costly one. With LRT sharing the road with regular vehicle traffic, especially along KGB, the "L" line has failed as rapid transit. Whether it was the lack of organization and education that the Metro Vancouver citizens achieved during the drum-roll to the creation of this financial sink-hole, or whether it was the sheer laziness, and unwillingness to properly protest to their politicians to express displeasure, we will never know (and, baby, we can still change this).

Surrey has been given lemons... and this is how Surrey made lemonade:

Realizing that the LRT "L" line is designed in such a way to disintegrate the definition of "rapid" to its users, Surrey has realized one thing about LRT: it can handle a decent amount of capacity and reduce carbon emissions. Because of the ineffectiveness of the LRT, Surrey now finds that Translink has abandoned the idea of expanding the LRT (because remember: everyone in Metro Van pays for this) and so Surrey is left to fund its own extensions.

Realizing the mediocre capacity ranges of the LRT, Surrey will extend its LRT to White Rock making it grade-separated whenever possible. Because of stupidly spending money on the "L" line, Surrey now learns the lesson that Edmonton, Calgary, Denver, L.A, Houston, Phoenix, Baltimore, Portland, Tampa, London (Ontario), and Charlotte have learned before: if LRT isn't grade separated, it isn't rapid transit. And so Surrey will do its best to make all of its LRT grade-separated whenever possible.

Back to the Lemonade: Surrey does work with what its got! Since LRT can handle some capacity, the LRT can be built to reach some neighbourhoods like South Westminster and Bridgeview. It becomes a secondary collection spine within the city of Surrey, reaching where Skytrain could not. The Surrey LRT will then feed its passengers into the spine of the Metro Vancouver network: being the Expo and Millennium lines.


Arbutus LRT

This line is something that makes a lot of sense to me because a significant portion of it is grade separated (for the most part) past Arbutus AND the grade-separated portions have pretty much been there all this time making it significantly cheaper (and more effective) to construct than the Surrey LRT. This line shows up really soon: in fact it comes into play soon after the second phase of the Millennium extension to UBC is financially secured.

Why is that? Well the Canada Line has probably reached capacity by now, demanding a relief line of some sort... and because Vancouver is enraptured by the romantic idea of LRT, instead of extending platforms and trains, it wants to make a new LRT relief line!

Don't get me wrong, the Arbutus line makes total sense. But it would be made for the wrong reasons in this fantasy of mine. Anyhow, the city won't really see the effectiveness of this line until a couple of years later down the road.

This line provides a fair amount of relief from the Canada. It shows the Olympic Village some love and it also connects to the Skytrain network at various points. However it gets extended east along Hastings (but north of Hastings, my goodness) as the COV wants to keep the underground in that part of the city, reserved for freight trains. You gotta remember, Vancouver is Canada's top port city. And we need to get the goods of Canada shipped out somewhere.

The Arbutus line also has potential to extend east of Marine Drive Station, providing relief from the Skytrain network. I didn't extend it because I didn't think it would be within my lifetime .


Granville Island Line

This line was created just purely based on the fact that we used to have something similar run to Granville Island, and it was very popular from a transit user's perspective. It connects from Waterfront, going through the West End, but not down Denman as that is an insanely busy street, and then finishing at a popular destination, Granville island.

This line would extend out past Granville Island to Jericho Beach only in the summer months. As popularity for the this line would increase then Translink will extend its service to Jericho Beach to 12 months one or two stations at a time. Eventually it would run from Jericho Beach to Waterfront with 12 month service but for the beginning, it only needs to get out to Jericho in the summer time.

West Coast Express

The West Coast Express remains the primarily form of Suburban rail throughout the Fraser Valley and Metro Vancouver. As the Abbotsford International Airport continues to develop, WCE will then extend its service out there adding scheduled trains based on Abbotsford Airport's busiest times.

B-Line

Here we see Burnaby take advantage of its location with a B-Line that links up people in a North-South corridor to four different lines of skytrain.


Vancouver

Vancouver will remain the centre for jobs and tourism in the Lower Mainland. It is best served by transit out of all of the municipalities in the Lower Mainland due to its need to bring everyone together within a timely manner.

The Vancouver City Centre station epitomizes this by making a single station a master transfer point where commuters have access to ALL skytrain lines in one place.

Vancouver ends up being extremely well connected within its municipal boundaries by the Evergreen line, which serves the west end, and by the Millennium line which serves UBC and the other southern neighbourhoods. It uses its LRT as collection lines and capacity reliefs that the Skytrain could not reach.

Burnaby

Burnaby ends up being a powerful bedroom community... in a good way!

Taking advantage of the ring layout of the original Skytrain design, Burnaby is extremely well serviced by rapid transit. So much so, that Burnaby functions much like a giant rapid transit roundabout; if you want to go to UBC or North Van, you head north; if you want to go to Main Street or Surrey, you head south, etc. This makes Burnaby a very convenient location if you want to travel anywhere in the Lower Mainland. To help exploit this advantage, there is even a B-Line bus that services a North-South Corridor which will open access to 4 different skytrain lines.


Tri-Cities (Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam, Port Moody) and Maple Meadows

Coquitlam is really aiming to be the crossroads of the east in the Lower Mainland. Like all cities in the Lower Mainland, the tri-cities can only piggy-back off of the niches that Vancouver has developed. Afterall you can't change the land but you can change what you specialize in.

This is why the Evergreen line branches off to Lafarge Lake and Maple Ridge; Port Coquitlam may end up developing its shipping industry more and will need a way to keep commuters off the road. This also opens the idea of extending the Evergreen line into Pitt Meadows and Maple Ridge: to supply them with the workers living nearby. We all choose to live relatively close to where we work afterall.


Surrey

Surrey ends up becoming a behemoth with the second most population in the Lower Mainland and with one of the most hectares of land to work with. It also hosts the second most number of jobs in the Lower Mainland. Surrey will need to connect its neghbourhoods together, which is why the Expo line extension is key to its success.

Surrey Central Station will be redesigned to be a super effective sorting system for commuters. Any UBC students or airport passengers will transfer at Surrey Central to the Millennium line. And then anyone else, who is destined for downtown, will commute on the old Expo line. The Millennium line will also serve as a relief line for the morning and evening commute.

Other than that because Surrey messed up with LRT, Surrey is just going to have to make lemonade with its LRT. The LRT will be marketed to its users as a means to address capacity instead of rapid transit needs.

Also because the North-South connections are weak, the LRT will extend along 96th avenue and then head north and into the South Westminster and Bridgeview neighbourhoods. This spawns new and interesting neighbourhoods across the Fraser river from New Westminster. But instead of getting rid of the much needed industrial land, Surrey rezones for Industrial/Residential mixed neighbourhoods (you can look this up, this is happening in OV).

The LRT will connect to the Scott Road Skytrain station and it connects to the Bridgeview neighbourhood through grade separation, spawning a new micro-brewery district within Metro Vancouver. So there are lots of cool things happening in Surrey as it wields its LRT to the best of its abilities.


Richmond

I imagine that Richmond will remain industrial for the most part but that it will continue to grow westward towards the water. As a strong location for foreign (read: Chinese) investment, the waterfront grows with popularity. And therefore a small extension may be required up the unique neighbourhood of Steveston. And with the Millennium extension all the way to Surrey in the east, Richmond doesn't need a lot of infrastructure to manage itself efficiently.

Birdgeport station will become a major hub, requiring extensive work to be done on the Skytrain station to be able to accommodate airport passengers from Richmond and Surrey, and homebound commuters from UBC.

Despite negative criticism from others, (although DLEUNG does make a good point) I really like this plan. Scryer, I think you have successfully synthesized an urban/ suburban context.
Making the Expo Line the "backbone" of the system out to Langley is the right thing to do (though I might look at DLEUNG'S post; his suggestion to MIGRANT COCONUT about running
Millenium Line through South Vancouver might be better. The south end of the Arbutus tram could link to it and serve the developments going up on the North bank of the Fraser,
if the line can be inclusive of east Richmond densities but this might neccesitate a river crossing, hence greater cost.
But taking it as far as Guilford is IMO an idea of foresight and dynamism, as is, even more daringly, you future Evergreen Line plans.
I also really like the Arbutus traway idea, plus the Downtown tramway, finishing up at Waterfront, and going to Jericho. The way it loops through the West End is almost Europan.
*I am unsure what the thin greenish line along East Hastings is. I would have hoped for underground. I think I'm reading wrong. Correction, please?
Nice to have two major central interchanges. A second "backbone is provided by the Evergreen Line. That First Narrows tunnel crossing is a huge engineering and financial challenge.
The Surrey LRT would need to 'dip through a tunnel here and there, really to avoid traffic intersections.
Finally, though the West Coast Express is still there - hopefully with higher frequencies - I see nothing for the Fraser Valley. Abbotsford-Clearbrook
will become a major commuting hub, Chilliwack also, albeit less so.
Finally, I think there should be a direct north-south B-Line or rapidbus beween Metrotown and Brentwood Town Centre.
End of feeback rant.

Last edited by trofirhen; May 11, 2018 at 2:38 AM.
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  #1446  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 3:46 AM
scryer scryer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trofirhen View Post


Despite negative criticism from others, (although DLEUNG does make a good point) I really like this plan. Scryer, I think you have successfully synthesized an urban/ suburban context.
Thank you.


Quote:
Making the Expo Line the "backbone" of the system out to Langley is the right thing to do (though I might look at DLEUNG'S post; his suggestion to MIGRANT COCONUT about running
Millenium Line through South Vancouver might be better. The south end of the Arbutus tram could link to it and serve the developments going up on the North bank of the Fraser,
if the line can be inclusive of east Richmond densities but this might neccesitate a river crossing, hence greater cost.
In my fantasy the reason why I didn't run the Millennium line through South Vancouver, heading east towards Surrey, is because I wanted less bridges and a second connection to the airport. I also wanted the Skytrain network to connect to new places like Annacis Island and eastern parts of Richmond that are mostly industrial to make the industrial lands feasible places to take transit to, therefore reducing vehicle traffic.

With the Arbutus line I was thinking that it could be extended east (and even up to Metrotown) to serve Southern Vancouver and the North Bank of the Fraser rive, which would carry people to the Skytrain network.

And this kind of brings me onto a personal grip of mine when it comes to fantasies for Vancouver: everyone makes absolutely everything a Skytrain line. Don't get me wrong, Skytrain is (IMO) the best transit system in Canada. In my opinion there is a time and a place for different transportation technology including buses. Which is why I haven't gone absolutely bat-shit crazy with Skytrain lines reaching into Whistler.

Back to my point (lol): do I think that South Vancouver and the Northern bank need some sort of transportation initiative? Yes. But I don't think that they will get Skytrain when we can easily extend the Arbutus line east, and maybe towards to Metrotown, and maybe even extend the Arbutus line north to Brentwood and beyond.


Quote:
But taking it as far as Guilford is IMO an idea of foresight and dynamism, as is, even more daringly, you future Evergreen Line plans.
I also really like the Arbutus traway idea, plus the Downtown tramway, finishing up at Waterfront, and going to Jericho. The way it loops through the West End is almost Europan.
Well when we look into how Vancouver is growing, we have to take into account which Suburbs will be growing. I suspect that there will be significant growth in Surrey, and the other municipalities south of Fraser. This puts more strain on the Expo line because we have to remember, according to the transit study done years ago, most people travelling from Langley and Surrey are travelling to Surrey; but the second destination was always downtown Vancouver.

As those numbers swell, I predict that there will be a need for a relief line as Burnaby and New West will continue to grow, and so will the Tri-Cities. Having the Millennium line go to Guildford (or even to Surrey Central, fuck) will split up a ton of passengers: those that travel to UBC/Airport will take the Millennium line, and those that work in downtown Vancity will take the Expo line - This is how a relief line should work. It should either divide passengers to use an alternative route for a popular destination or it needs to bring them to that popular destination (being downtown Vancity).

I personally don't think that people realize that the Millennium line is the answer to almost ALL of our prayers. Want an extension to UBC? Extend the Millennium line. Want a second connection to the airport? How about extending the M line further. Now we need a relief for the Expo and Canada lines from Surrey and Richmond? Well we can extend that Millennium line again. The Millennium line honestly has a shit-ton of potential if we extend it right.


Quote:
*I am unsure what the thin greenish line along East Hastings is. I would have hoped for underground. I think I'm reading wrong. Correction, please?
Sorry that is the continuation of the Arbutus line into East Hastings. My fantasy lists it as street-level as I doubt that the COV will be wise enough to dig for an Expo/Millennium line extension.


Quote:
Nice to have two major central interchanges. A second "backbone is provided by the Evergreen Line. That First Narrows tunnel crossing is a huge engineering and financial challenge.
The Surrey LRT would need to 'dip through a tunnel here and there, really to avoid traffic intersections.
The First Narrows will be an absolute nightmare to fund. Hell I would even say have the Skytrain surface by Lion's Gate Bridge and build ontop of the bridge lol. I'm not sure if that would be feasible or if crossing into North Van at the First Narrows is even feasible in and of itself.

I personally doubt that the initial "L" line would dip it and do it past intersections. But when it comes to getting into South Surrey and eventually into White Rock, there is quite a bit of land. And although I would hate to use more land, I think that it is a healthy consideration to widen those streets and have the LRT separated by a curb. Food for thought though...


Quote:
Finally, though the West Coast Express is still there - hopefully with higher frequencies - I see nothing for the Fraser Valley. Abbotsford-Clearbrook
will become a major commuting hub, Chilliwack also, albeit less so.
The WCE is a very hard one for me to figure out... I'm like, okay most of their commuters are coming from Abbotsford and Abbotsford has got this airport that's gaining popularity so it makes sense to extend out there for me. Chilliwack I can also agree with as well. But because the Skytrain extends out to places like Langley and Maple Meadows it kind of makes the WCE obsolete. In fact, if a strategy is not put in place to grow the WCE in terms of passengers per year I predict that it will eventually die a slow death.

Quote:
End of feeback rant.
Thank you for the feedback!! I thought that my fantasy was about to get lost on the previous page.
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  #1447  
Old Posted May 11, 2018, 4:44 AM
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Lavender line is farmland/industrial for the majority of its length and a non-starter. Makes way more sense to have a line along the south of Vancouver linking up with the Expo to get from richmond to surrey.
Lavender's supposed to be a B-Line or an express bus; a train would indeed be overkill. Figured that since this is a fantasy, we might as well have a direct Richmond-Surrey connection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scryer View Post
And this kind of brings me onto a personal grip of mine when it comes to fantasies for Vancouver: everyone makes absolutely everything a Skytrain line. Don't get me wrong, Skytrain is (IMO) the best transit system in Canada. In my opinion there is a time and a place for different transportation technology including buses. Which is why I haven't gone absolutely bat-shit crazy with Skytrain lines reaching into Whistler.
IMO, it's all about using the right vehicle on the right route.

There's obviously going to be some routes where SkyTrain is unnecessary (Arbutus, Steveston, 41st maybe if they bury Larch-Victoria), but usually a BRT or LRT is just going to be bogged down and undercapacity unless you grade-separate most of the route, in which case one might as well make it SkyTrain. Just look at KGB-104th and Fraser.
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  #1448  
Old Posted May 28, 2018, 9:31 AM
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Interesting ideas. I'm not convinced that the Millennium line routing through Richmond would be a good idea. I'd suggest that a more effective route would be along either 41st or Marine in Vancouver, connecting in New Westminster to create a circle line. The extra capacity for the airport could come from the Arbutus Line.
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  #1449  
Old Posted Jun 15, 2018, 11:36 PM
dothediu dothediu is offline
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Not sure if this has been discussed, but one thing that would be a fantasy is express trains along existing Skytrain lines. Other cities have this concept. This of course would require brand new tracks.

Can you imagine Expo trains with stops only at Waterfront, Broadway-Commercial, Metro, New West, Surrey Central
M-line trains with stops only at Coquitlam, Lougheed, Brentwood, Broadway-Commercial, Cambie, UBC.
Existing Skytrain would still exist to take people to the express stations. Would cut down travel times a bit.

Also if WCE could change to high speed train (200km/hr+), then Mission to Waterfront could take only 30 minutes.
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  #1450  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2018, 12:29 AM
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In order for WCE to attain any high speed though, Translink must get its own tracks. Since the train only runs one way, single track for now will be okay.

With CN (or CP?) train in priority, the WCE can only go so fast. Another problem is that distance between Port Moody Station, Coquitlam Centre, and PoCo is too short. (Oh between Pitt Meadows, Maple Meadows and Port Haney too.)

Really, the only segment where the train can go fast is between Waterfront and Port Moody, and between Port Haney and Mission City (even after Albion Station becomes a reality).

Side notes: Will an Albion WCE Station boost ridership on 745 and 746? Also, 701 heading towards Mission City should add a few more stops along Lougheed as well, like 240th Street, 287th Street or even somewhere in Silverdale subject to Municipal funding.
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Last edited by Dengler Avenue; Jun 16, 2018 at 12:39 AM.
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  #1451  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2018, 12:33 AM
scryer scryer is offline
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Not sure if this has been discussed, but one thing that would be a fantasy is express trains along existing Skytrain lines. Other cities have this concept. This of course would require brand new tracks.
Maybe we don't need to necessarily build new tracks? Firstly I would imagine that we would run express trains during rush hour times (7-10am and 4-6pm) so I don't think that it is outside of the realm of possibility to just time the trains? Especially with the way that the expo line is set up now, you could theoretically time it so that you have one train leave for Production-Way and then later on a couple of express trains could leave for King George.

It would be very difficult to time perfectly but I totally think that express trains will be a huge consideration when Surrey starts filling up trains before it gets to Metrotown. And trust me, with all of those highrises being built, it's gonna happen.

Last edited by scryer; Jun 16, 2018 at 12:52 AM.
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  #1452  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2018, 12:44 AM
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So would a commuter train to and from Lonsdale Quay (if there’s even room to expand) and Squamish a non-starter? Many more people commute between Vancouver and Squamish than before, and with Sea-to-Sky very hard to navigate on, a train will be nice eh?

Otherwise, I have always dreamed about having 259 go between Downtown and Squamish running every 20 minutes during rush and 60 otherwise, taking out some of the 257 (since 259 stops at Horshoe Bay anyway).
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My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
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  #1453  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2018, 4:32 AM
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Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
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Originally Posted by dothediu View Post
Not sure if this has been discussed, but one thing that would be a fantasy is express trains along existing Skytrain lines. Other cities have this concept. This of course would require brand new tracks.

Can you imagine Expo trains with stops only at Waterfront, Broadway-Commercial, Metro, New West, Surrey Central
M-line trains with stops only at Coquitlam, Lougheed, Brentwood, Broadway-Commercial, Cambie, UBC.
Existing Skytrain would still exist to take people to the express stations. Would cut down travel times a bit.
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Originally Posted by scryer View Post
Maybe we don't need to necessarily build new tracks? Firstly I would imagine that we would run express trains during rush hour times (7-10am and 4-6pm) so I don't think that it is outside of the realm of possibility to just time the trains? Especially with the way that the expo line is set up now, you could theoretically time it so that you have one train leave for Production-Way and then later on a couple of express trains could leave for King George.

It would be very difficult to time perfectly but I totally think that express trains will be a huge consideration when Surrey starts filling up trains before it gets to Metrotown. And trust me, with all of those highrises being built, it's gonna happen.
It would definitely require new tracks. The rationale behind automated light metro is that one can get away with smaller trains if they show up twice as often; express trains would mean "local" service has less trains and less frequency to work with. Then the SkyTrain just becomes a conventional subway with too-small cars.

Or maybe we could just have a second WCE shadowing the Expo?

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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
So would a commuter train to and from Lonsdale Quay (if there’s even room to expand) and Squamish a non-starter? Many more people commute between Vancouver and Squamish than before, and with Sea-to-Sky very hard to navigate on, a train will be nice eh?

Otherwise, I have always dreamed about having 259 go between Downtown and Squamish running every 20 minutes during rush and 60 otherwise, taking out some of the 257 (since 259 stops at Horshoe Bay anyway).
I think it'll have to be a bus line (maybe Greyhound if it's going to Whistler as well). If we can't justify rail transit out to Delta, Squamish is going to be an even harder sell.
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  #1454  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2018, 7:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut View Post
It would definitely require new tracks. The rationale behind automated light metro is that one can get away with smaller trains if they show up twice as often; express trains would mean "local" service has less trains and less frequency to work with. Then the SkyTrain just becomes a conventional subway with too-small cars.

Or maybe we could just have a second WCE shadowing the Expo?



I think it'll have to be a bus line (maybe Greyhound if it's going to Whistler as well). If we can't justify rail transit out to Delta, Squamish is going to be an even harder sell.
Otherwise, I suppose we can always pull a Sea-to-Sky version of the current Fraser Valley Express (Route 66).

IMO compass machines should still be installed on these intercity routes though (even if people still need to pay extra fare anyway), including the 21 that runs between Aldergrove and Bourquin. Every now and then, people will forget that they need to transfer and hence forget to bring 3 extra tunies with them.

For example, in GTA, even if one is to take a TTC bus from Toronto to York Region, nowadays the same will simply get charged more on the presto card, instead of having to pay cash fare.
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My Proposal of TCH Twinning in Northern Ontario
Disclaimer: Most of it is pure pie in the sky, so there's no need to be up in the arm about it.
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  #1455  
Old Posted Jun 18, 2018, 5:50 PM
dothediu dothediu is offline
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They could probably get away with only building one new track and only have express services during morning and afternoon rush hour, alternating directions.
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  #1456  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 9:08 PM
twoNeurons twoNeurons is offline
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The only way they could get away with express trains is by doing something like using pocket tracks and timing everything more precisely than Japanese bullet trains.

In other words, a tall order with almost no room for error.
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  #1457  
Old Posted Jun 19, 2018, 11:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dothediu View Post
They could probably get away with only building one new track and only have express services during morning and afternoon rush hour, alternating directions.
Where do the trains go after they arrive at Waterfront in the morning? Either they're sitting around on some of the most expensive land in the country or you're squeezing them back out as outbound locals, which you could *maybe* squeeze in 7 or so, but an express every 8 minutes or more is going to eat up a lot of anyone's time savings from riding the express.
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  #1458  
Old Posted Jun 20, 2018, 12:21 AM
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I still feel like the system is more than capable of much tighter headways between other trains and switches but we aren't allowed to go much shorter. It really limits the ability to rapidly pass through switches without slowing the train down or delaying the line both directions while a train switches and clears the block. Otherwise the system is already able to dynamically adjust train speed in order to maintain an electronic schedule. While our low-speed LIM's are not able to go beyond 110km/h in testing they are still very much able to accelerate quite hard and quite fast.
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  #1459  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2018, 2:08 AM
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I went overboard with too many North Shore connections. The expo and green lines are the most economical but having the Canada Line span across the inlet via a floating tunnel just looks so nice, and makes the group of downtown interchange stations look so symmetric.
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  #1460  
Old Posted Sep 16, 2018, 4:14 AM
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I went overboard with too many North Shore connections. The expo and green lines are the most economical but having the Canada Line span across the inlet via a floating tunnel just looks so nice, and makes the group of downtown interchange stations look so symmetric.
I've got some suggestions (and pesky facts). It's easier to have a Hastings Line travel to Stanley Park and across to the North Shore. We can't have a rail line go up Burnaby Mountain to SFU as the grade is too steep - it's why they're proposing a gondola. Also any more stations in Richmond would have to be a separate surface rail line (the last section of Canada Line is single tracked because of Richmond Nimby-ism).
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