The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Wigs

Truenorth,
Since you enjoy DW videos, just 3 weeks ago BYD's purpose built vehicle cargo ship just unloaded 5,000 cars into Germany. The ship can allegedly carry up to 7,000 cars

• Video Link

Europe isn't as strict with Chinese EVs. And even there we see emerging issues. The German manufacturers all have plants or JVs in China. They don't want those overturned. The French OEMs do a lot less business in China and are pushing for sanctions. We'll see how that works out.

[Truenorth00]

BYD is saying ICEV is in the terminal phase. Claiming their third gen platform will let them make major gains.

BYD says EVs have entered the ‘knockout round’ with next-gen tech rolling out

...During an investor meeting on Wednesday, BYD’s CEO, Wang Chaunfu, said it will launch its next-gen hybrid tech offering over 1,200 miles (2,000 km) range. We reported earlier this month that BYD looks to crush gas-powered car sales with its newest platform.

...By building nearly all vehicle components, including batteries, in-house, BYD has a major advantage over rivals. BYD can offer low-cost EVs, like the new Seagull, starting under $10,000 (69,800 yuan) and still make a profit.

Its next-gen DM-i system will enable an even more range at a lower cost. According to a new Yicai report (translated), Chaunfu said BYD will launch its next-gen DM-i platform in May.

....Chaunfu added that he believes EVs and PHEVs have “entered the knockout round” and that the next two years will be critical for automakers to scale, reduce costs, and introduce new tech.

As new electric cars roll out in China, BYD sees joint venture brands (overseas automakers) market share falling from 40% to 10%. The 30% offers room for Chinese brands to grow.

....BYD is using an “overseas + localization” strategy to expand the brand. For example, BYD is building a plant in Hungary that will “be Europe, for Europe.” BYD’s European leader said the plant will “be closer to customers, offering faster deliveries, and people will trust us more.”

Chaunfu said BYD aims to sell 500,000 vehicles overseas this year, more than double the 240,000 handed over last year. By 2025, BYD sees overseas sales reaching 1 million.

....after launching in Japan last year, BYD already accounted for 20% of Japan’s EV imports in January, a market dominated by Toyota.

The automaker launched a “liberation battle” with drastic price cuts and new lower-priced models earlier this year.

BYD says its main competition is gas-powered vehicles and joint venture brands. Several of its most popular EVs, including the Dolphin and Seagull, were updated with lower prices. Its cheapest EV, the Seagull, starts at just $9,700.

https://electrek.co/2024/03/28/byd-e...ech-launching/

We won't see a lot of this fight play out in Canada. Or the US. Because of the IRA. Doesn't mean the fight isn't happening. Legacy automakers depend on China for profits substantially. Losing share there could put some of them in real trouble. They might not be able to support their current debt levels if they lose substantial marketshare outside their home markets.

But as much as I'm no fan of CCP backed companies, BYD savaging legacy auto was entirely predictable and something several of us here were talking about here years ago. It's something Elon Musk warned about. But people who saw this as some hippie green threat instead of a technological threat dismissed these warnings. And unfortunately for so many workers, some of the most dismissive people were people in the C-suites with Golden parachutes or politicians who will never have to live with the consequences of their rhetoric as they collect generous pensions after their time in office.

[urbandreamer]

Toyota is supposedly going to build North Americas biggest battery plant in Kitchener Waterloo Region.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Toyota is supposedly going to build North Americas biggest battery plant in Kitchener Waterloo Region.

Where did you hear that?

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Where did you hear that?

There were some rumours about it late last year, and the province is assembling some land off of Highway 7/8 just outside of New Hamburg right now.. so definitely a possibility. The Province stays mum on these things until the final dotted line is signed though.

https://www.therecord.com/news/water...68aaad78c.html

Province is assembling land in Wilmot Township

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The Region of Waterloo and Wilmot Township are working with the province to assemble a large parcel of shovel-ready industrial land.

It is all about attracting new investments from global companies leading to more jobs and economic growth, says a joint statement issued by the Region of Waterloo and the Township of Wilmot.

“There are other municipalities in Ontario with shovel-ready land, and we are missing out on opportunities every day,” said Wilmot Mayor Natasha Salonen in an interview Thursday.

“I am not going to engage in speculation,” she said.

A provincial agency — the Ontario Realty Corporation — started the land assembly in Wilmot several weeks ago. It is unclear what properties are involved.

The involvement of the Ontario Realty Corporation in the Wilmot land assembly is far from routine, and signals the potential use of subsidies and incentives to attract a global manufacturing company that only the provincial government can approve — property-tax holidays, steep discounts on the price of land and other investments.

At the same time multibillion dollar investments are in the offing as the auto-sector transitions to electric vehicles and the batteries that power them.

The biggest private-sector employer in Waterloo Region is by far Toyota in Cambridge. Ottawa and Queen's Park have invested billions in electrical vehicle and battery plants near Windsor and St. Thomas, and are unlikely to ignore Toyota which has looked at possible sites in the U.S. for EV assembly lines and battery plants.

The land assembly that is occurring is a lot smaller than the area in St Thomas however - about 750 acres, vs. 1,500 for St Thomas. So I'm not sure whatever it's being assembled for will be the "North Americas biggest battery plant".

[kwoldtimer]

There is logic to it. Toyota was negotiating an "investment" with the national government and the Cambridge and Woodstock plants are nearby.

[whatnext]

More tales from the sales front:

Tesla Inc. suffered its first year-over-year sales drop since the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Tesla handed over 386,810 vehicles in the first three months of 2024, the company said in a statement Tuesday. That fell well short of analysts’ average estimate for 449,080 deliveries. The stock fell 7 per cent in early New York trading….

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/tesla-sa...2020-1.2054179

[urbandreamer]

No surprise. Aging models, high interest rates, recession. Kitchener taxis are using Model 3/Y, giving pause to tech bros desire for the new Camry/Caprice/Crown Victoria.

Model X/S should be replaced by a larger SUV, Model 3/Y needs totally redesigned for 2028, CyberTruck needs to be refined, Model 2 is probably a small SUV & then maybe they need a normal small Maverick competitor.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by whatnext

More tales from the sales front:

Tesla Inc. suffered its first year-over-year sales drop since the early days of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Tesla handed over 386,810 vehicles in the first three months of 2024, the company said in a statement Tuesday. That fell well short of analysts’ average estimate for 449,080 deliveries. The stock fell 7 per cent in early New York trading….

https://www.bnnbloomberg.ca/tesla-sa...2020-1.2054179

Amazing how overinflated the estimates were..Troy Teslike was the closest:

[jonny24]

I wish they had names. I don't know which is which from reading them, and they don't even have badges on the cars to tell me when I see one.

I call them the "okay slim one", the "boring but something is a little off one", and the "chubby one".

Edit: lest anyone think this is anti-EV, I feel the same way about BMWs.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The land assembly that is occurring is a lot smaller than the area in St Thomas however - about 750 acres, vs. 1,500 for St Thomas. So I'm not sure whatever it's being assembled for will be the "North Americas biggest battery plant".

Keep in mind the St Thomas battery plant isn't all of those 1500 acres by a long shot. There is more than enough land there after the battery plant is done to build the rumoured assembly plant that VW said they want to add to North America and other associated businesses as well, should St Thomas manage to land them. I am however, unconvinced that the Toyota story wasn't just a late April Fools either. It makes sense that Toyota would, but until I see more, I'm not counting on it yet. I mean, Toyota also owns enough land at it's Woodstock plant to build a battery plant on site here as well, why build out in New Hamburg in that case.

[kwoldtimer]

Reality check for me today - wandered in to an Ottawa Lexus dealership to enquire about delivery times for an NX350h. Wait time is estimated at "2 to 4 years"! I had thought maybe 12 to 18 months.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Keep in mind the St Thomas battery plant isn't all of those 1500 acres by a long shot. There is more than enough land there after the battery plant is done to build the rumoured assembly plant that VW said they want to add to North America and other associated businesses as well, should St Thomas manage to land them. I am however, unconvinced that the Toyota story wasn't just a late April Fools either. It makes sense that Toyota would, but until I see more, I'm not counting on it yet. I mean, Toyota also owns enough land at it's Woodstock plant to build a battery plant on site here as well, why build out in New Hamburg in that case.

Was there an actual "story" or us it rumour based on Toyota's looking for incentives plus the recent news of the Region of Waterloo land assembly?

Why there - access to a bigger labour pool? A number of parts suppliers already nearby?

[Truenorth00]

Southern Ontario has a few advantages:

1) Existing automotive manufacturing base and supply chains.

2) Skilled labour pool and talent development.

3) A relatively clean grid (compared to most of the US) with decent electricity pricing.

4) Access to the US market and qualification under IRA.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Was there an actual "story" or us it rumour based on Toyota's looking for incentives plus the recent news of the Region of Waterloo land assembly?

Why there - access to a bigger labour pool? A number of parts suppliers already nearby?

It’s about halfway between their Cambridge and Woodstock plants, if it’s worth anything.

But again - who really knows until the press conference happens. The province is assembling land in New Hamburg for something - what it is, who knows.

[SpongeG]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

No surprise. Aging models, high interest rates, recession. Kitchener taxis are using Model 3/Y, giving pause to tech bros desire for the new Camry/Caprice/Crown Victoria.

Model X/S should be replaced by a larger SUV, Model 3/Y needs totally redesigned for 2028, CyberTruck needs to be refined, Model 2 is probably a small SUV & then maybe they need a normal small Maverick competitor.

Tesla has really lost its appeal, they are very common, lot's of kids drive them these days out here. The white ones are so basic looking, no appeal at all. They do need a new product, something that strays from their norm. They do have a lot of charging stations which is appealing. Most of the non Tesla chargers around here can really only accomodate 2 or 3 cars at most.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Tesla has really lost its appeal, they are very common, lot's of kids drive them these days out here. The white ones are so basic looking, no appeal at all. They do need a new product, something that strays from their norm. They do have a lot of charging stations which is appealing. Most of the non Tesla chargers around here can really only accomodate 2 or 3 cars at most.

It is sad that you can only get five colours, two of which are white (so common) and black. A BMW i4 offers thirteen choices, seven different wheels.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Tesla has really lost its appeal, they are very common, lot's of kids drive them these days out here. The white ones are so basic looking, no appeal at all. They do need a new product, something that strays from their norm. They do have a lot of charging stations which is appealing. Most of the non Tesla chargers around here can really only accomodate 2 or 3 cars at most.

It's ironic since EVs and hybrids generally started out with unusual and quirky designs meant to make them stand out from conventional vehicles and thus appeal to early adopters. Several OEMs had to conventionalize their design language to make them appeal more to normies (think the original vs later versions of the Leaf, Insight, and Volt.)

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

Tesla has really lost its appeal,...

Not sure how true this is given how much Tesla charges for their vehicles and how much profit they make per vehicle. If Tesla dropped $5k off the Model 3, they'd still be profitable and probably have sold just as many.

Also, they won the charger format war for North America and a whole bunch of companies are paying them to use their charger network. For whatever popular appeal they may be losing, they are actually gaining ground in other ways.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Was there an actual "story" or us it rumour based on Toyota's looking for incentives plus the recent news of the Region of Waterloo land assembly?

Why there - access to a bigger labour pool? A number of parts suppliers already nearby?

Honestly, I don't know why they would pick New Hamburg when they have available land at Woodstock already. Unless they plan to build a second assembly plant in Woodstock on that land like they did in Cambridge. Takes the same time to get to the Cambridge plant from New Hamburg as it does from Woodstock, so why be a half hour from both when you can be beside one and a half hour from the other? I don't see New Hamburg having any advantage from a workforce perspective. Workers from KW can just as easily drive to Woodstock as they can to NH, and you can also draw from London like the current plant does.

All speculation though, its not like every government land assembly means a battery plant. I can just as easily start a rumour on the highways thread that the government is buying land in the New Hamburg area, they must be getting ready to expand the highway 7/8 freeway section lol.