[Halifax] Nova Centre | 65-58-58 m | 16-15-14 fl | Completed

[Wishblade]

Finally some decent pushback from the proponents of the convention centre. The coalition to save the view are just using their financial numbers case to disguise their real reason for fighting this, which is to save that view..

Different point of ‘View’
Boosters of new trade centre crash news conference


The gloves came off Friday in the debate over new convention centre for Halifax.

A news conference put on by the Coalition to Save the View came to a barroom brawl-style conclusion when boosters of a new convention centre crashed the event and took verbal jabs at talk of renovating the existing facility. Coalition supporters punched back with statistics.

The coalition is promoting renovations to the current centre as a lower-cost alternative to building a new one two blocks away as part of a complex that would also include a highrise hotel and condominium development.

"It would be extremely costly to renovate the existing trade centre, and in the end we’d be left with something substandard," Peter Hendrickson, president of Tour Tech East, said during the news conference at the Khyber Arts Centre on Barrington Street.

Trade Centre Ltd. added more sizzle to the debate shortly after the coalition’s news conference started by posting on its website a 2007 consultant’s report that shreds any possibility of renovating the existing complex.

Coalition members called the news conference to bash proponents of the project planned for the former site of the Halifax Herald Ltd. building on Argyle Street. They say the supporters have been feeding taxpayers faulty financials to support their case. Those documents and the 2007 consultant’s report are all posted on the Trade Centre Ltd. website.

"There is no business case for a new convention centre," said coalition member Beverley Miller.

She said proponents of a new centre have provided inadequate economic analysis and have failed to consider the implications for taxpayers.

"If we’re being asked to spend $140 million, and have to pay financing costs, we have to consider the huge increase in convention attendance required," Miller said.

Coalition members reiterated their previous arguments that the convention sector is on the decline and Halifax is too small for a big new convention centre that would leave taxpayers footing the bill for years to come.

Renovating the existing 25-year-old complex is a reasonable alternative, they say.

Hendrickson made a comment about thinking small and staying small, and he started to quiz coalition members on the validity of their numbers and statistics.

Coalition member Allan Robertson interrupted and suggested the question-and-answer session be turned back over to the working media. Hendrickson then made an abrupt exit.

When a bunch of other supporters of the Argyle Street proposal headed for the exit, a gaggle of reporters gave chase, microphones at the ready. The result was what public relations people call a crash-and-burn — reporters lined up to get comments from convention centre supporters while the coalition’s news conference virtually disintegrated.

"It will be interesting to see how all this plays out," Robertson said to a colleague.

Robert Zed, chairman of the Zed Group, an event management company in Halifax, said it makes sense to analyze the viability of a new convention centre. But he questioned the coalition’s credibility in opposing the project on an economic basis after first arguing that its priority was protecting the view of the harbour from Citadel Hill.

Mary Lou Crowley, president and CEO of the Mental Health Foundation of Nova Scotia, said her organization’s major annual fundraiser sells out at 800 people and more space is needed. She said the Argyle Street proposal sounds terrific.

"We had to turn away 100 people last year because the existing trade centre did not have the capacity," she said.

Ian Taylor, a coalition supporter, said all taxpayers in Nova Scotia, not just those in Halifax, should be concerned that the province is considering investing in the project without assessing whether it has a proper business model.

"If they want to build it, they should create a new business tax to pay for it," he said.

He said general taxpayers should not have to shoulder the burden.

[joeyedm]

thats good to hear. gotta laugh at those silly view people. its these stupid people that is holding this city back.

[Jonovision]

Time for Halifax to get on with plans


It must be difficult for a group calling itself the Coalition to Save the View to argue that its opposition to a new con vention centre in Halifax is anything other than an at tempt to prevent highrises from being built in the down town.

The coalition held a press conference Friday to make its case against the convention centre. It was based on esti mates that suggest the centre would create a heavy finan cial burden on the province.

Since no one knows just how much the proposed con vention centre will actually cost — the developer Rank Inc. has until July 19 to sub mit a detailed proposal to the provincial government — the opponents of the project were forced to project their own figures in order to justify their findings.

There is little argument. It will be in everyone’s interest to have the economics of the convention project closely examined once the final plans are presented to government.

But the coalition’s effort to fight the project on economic grounds fell short.

The coalition’s financial argument against the project was nothing more than a thinly disguised attempt to force the developer to cut floors from its buildings.


The coalition didn’t reveal the true reason for opposing the convention centre until the last paragraph of its news release, which read: “The towers would be exempt from the HRM by Design rules applied on the other blocks downtown. Any public funding for the P3 con vention centre would allow the height of the towers to double from seven and nine to 14 and 18 storeys, effectively privatiz ing the view from Citadel Hill."

Never mind that a developer can legally build highrises under the view planes legislation, which restricted construction in strategic sightlines from Citadel Hill, with or without a conven tion centre.

The coalition has suggested that renovations to the existing convention centre on Argyle Street would be good enough to meet the long-term needs for a convention centre. They further suggest the tax revenue generat ed by the existing convention centre is about the same as studies have projected for a new and expanded hall down the street.

Considering the proposed convention centre will be larger than the existing facility, with a major hotel attached, along with a shopping and restaurant com ponent, it is difficult to believe the new convention centre would fail to surpass the tax revenue generated by the cur rent facility.

Government is involved in the development of convention centres because such projects are considered revenue gener ators rather than money makers on their own. The only entity that will be able to gain from the development of a convention centre is government through increased tax revenue generated in the various shops, restaurants and hotels from the spending by conventioneers.

The coalition’s opposition to the convention centre is built around a desire to maintain a certain low-level heritage feel to the architecture of the down town. While the new plan for the downtown allows for greater density, heritage groups would have preferred that construction in the downtown be restricted to no more than six storeys.

The fact is, construction, particularly in the downtown, is an expensive business and de velopers require a certain densi ty in order to finance the cre ation of new and interesting buildings.

If heritage groups had been successful in keeping buildings short and squat, as they wanted to do during the HRM by Design debate, it would have not only reflected badly on them but it would have projected poorly on the whole community.

It is about time Halifax pushed forward with new and interesting plans for the city.

(rtaylor@herald.ca)

[Canadian_Bacon]

I agree completely with the last 2 sentence's...

If heritage groups had been successful in keeping buildings short and squat, as they wanted to do during the HRM by Design debate, it would have not only reflected badly on them but it would have projected poorly on the whole community.

It is about time Halifax pushed forward with new and interesting plans for the city.

[halifaxboyns]

There is no business case to keep Beverley Miller and her 'save the view' crowd either.

I'm so glad that people are starting to push back on this and push back hard. It's about time and all I will say is push back even harder - get out there; keep this momentum going.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

There is no business case to keep Beverley Miller and her 'save the view' crowd either.

I'm so glad that people are starting to push back on this and push back hard. It's about time and all I will say is push back even harder - get out there; keep this momentum going.

First time that I have heard of anything like this happening in Halifax in the past 40 years that I have been reading the news (I started reading the news at a young age)

[halifaxboyns]

Originally Posted by fenwick16

First time that I have heard of anything like this happening in Halifax in the past 40 years that I have been reading the news (I started reading the news at a young age)

I should note that the petitions have seen activity. The pro one is at 1550 and the against hasn't really moved much at all around 640. Last time I looked, it was around that before.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I should note that the petitions have seen activity. The pro one is at 1550 and the against hasn't really moved much at all around 640. Last time I looked, it was around that before.

Hopefully the anti-development blighters have hit the wall.........I mean, how many vacant lots do you want to have downtown?

I appreciate the view from the citadel as much as anyone else, but the view can include scenic vistas of downtown skyscrapers just as much as panoramas of the harbour.

The future of a vibrant downtown Halifax is at stake here........Geeeeez!!

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Hopefully the anti-development blighters have hit the wall.........I mean, how many vacant lots do you want to have downtown?

I appreciate the view from the citadel as much as anyone else, but the view can include scenic vistas of downtown skyscrapers just as much as panoramas of the harbour.

The future of a vibrant downtown Halifax is at stake here........Geeeeez!!

Step one has been accomplished (end of anti-development rule in the HRM), now step two includes a 600 foot plus observation tower somewhere in Halifax or Dartmouth (this can be a monument to progressive thinking). I like the idea of scenic vistas, and even better would be a higher vantage point for panoramic views of the harbour.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

I should note that the petitions have seen activity. The pro one is at 1550 and the against hasn't really moved much at all around 640. Last time I looked, it was around that before.

The Save the View petition has been at 640 names for about a month now. It certainly seems to have hit a brick wall

[Keith P.]

I am concerned given the recent NDP move to quash the Dartmouth bus terminal project. If they take such an interventionist stance against such an innocuous project I worry that there is little chance they will support something like this.

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by Keith P.

I am concerned given the recent NDP move to quash the Dartmouth bus terminal project. If they take such an interventionist stance against such an innocuous project I worry that there is little chance they will support something like this.

You could be right, however, based on what I have read in the news, Premier Dexter as a Dartmouth councillor was previously involved in the planning for the Dartmouth Bus terminal. So he has a much closer connection and concerns regarding the Dartmouth bus terminal.

[fenwick16]

I copied this from the Rank Inc. website - http://www.novacentre.ca/

"The Convention/Trade Centre is the heart of the Nova Centre Project. On the strength of the commitment to proceed with a new Convention/Trade Centre, negotiations to secure commitments on approximately 75% of the Project are nearing completion. Rank Incorporated intend to proceed with the Project immediately following the approval process under HRM By Design."

It sounds like the delay in proceeding is related to securing financing. This isn't surprising considering the cost involved. What other major projects has Rank Inc. developed? I found some information on the Joe Ramia - http://www.homegoodsonline.ca/index....=4259&Itemid=2 . I hope that they will be able to make this happen.

[halifaxboyns]

I figured the anti-convention centre petition had stopped; I just wanted to be sure. As for the premier - with his support level having plunged so much - he'll end up making the decision that will be more favourable I think with the people who fund his campaign - which will more than likely be to go ahead with the convention centre.

At least with that - he can say that he's created jobs and made a decision which will hopefully help the economy in the long run.

As for his intervention - I agree with Fenwick's comment; I think it was a blip since he's got that area under his control as the MLA.

[hfxtradesman]

CBC. said tonight that the 120million was there for the project. Did anybody else catch that?

[fenwick16]

Originally Posted by hfxtradesman

CBC. said tonight that the 120million was there for the project. Did anybody else catch that?

I will check the allnovascotia.com when it comes out later tonight (around 10:30 ET, 11:30 AT).

[fenwick16]

There is an open house today and tomorrow regarding the new convention centre proposal at the WTCC. Today (June 23) from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m. and tomorrow (June 24) from 12 to 2 p.m according to Metro Halifax - http://www.metronews.ca/halifax/loca...vention-centre

I wish that I was in Halifax for this, since I would be interested in hearing more details and seeing the current WTCC.

Open house being held for proposed convention centre
METRO HALIFAX
June 23, 2010 12:10 a.m.

The public will be able to provide feedback and learn more about the proposed new convention centre for downtown Halifax at an open house today and tomorrow.

Trade Centre Limited will host two events — today from 6:30 to 8:30 p.m. and tomorrow from 12 to 2 p.m. — at the World Trade Convention Centre to answer questions and provide background on the proposed project.

The public can take tours of the current facility and learn about the proposed design. Haligonians will also be able to offer feedback through the trade centre’s website.

The province is still deliberating on whether to support the 1.4-million-square-foot facility estimated to cost between $300 million and $350 million. The municipality said it would financially support the project.

[halifaxboyns]

Damn, wish I could take the time off to visit - saw some nice cheap fares on air canada today.
Alas; we're in the middle of an office move - so I'm stuck boxing up everything tomorrow.

[fenwick16]

(source: http://thechronicleherald.ca/Metro/1188736.html )

Business, mayor: New convention centre needed
Centre boosters hijack heritage group's news conference
By MICHAEL LIGHTSTONE City Hall Reporter
Thu. Jun 24 - 4:54 AM

Economic development in Halifax is at a critical point and needs a new course that a proposed downtown convention centre could set, an open house heard Wednesday.

Supporter Bernie Smith said the consequences could be dire if the plan doesn’t proceed.

"I think there’s a sort of psychological watershed here, that if this doesn’t go ahead, people will say: ‘Ho-hum. So much for the downtown. It’s too difficult to develop there — we’ll think about it in five years.’ "

Smith, of the Spring Garden Area Business Association, said if the contentious proposal doesn’t fly and developer Rank Inc. uses the Argyle Street site for something less grand, "I don’t think Plan B would have the same immediacy."

Project boosters say a new convention centre would revitalize the sagging downtown core.

But Mayor Peter Kelly, a convention centre backer, said the proposed structure needs to be more than just a meeting place for delegates from large organizations. He suggested it could be part convention centre and part performing arts centre and also include other elements in its design.

Convention centre boosters essentially hijacked a news conference that the Coalition to Save the View had organized to present an opposing position. The coalition suggests renovations to the World Trade and Convention Centre would be a lower-cost alternative to building a new one nearby.

Centre proponents hosted the first of two open houses this week — the second is set for today at noon — and presented their case for going ahead with the development of the Argyle Street site of the demolished Halifax Herald Ltd. building.

Opponents say there isn’t a business case to support such a project but supporters say just the opposite. Proposal foes are also worried about sightlines from Citadel Hill to Halifax Harbour being affected.

Allan Robertson, a retired management consultant, supports the concept of a new convention centre and acknowledged the value of tourism to Halifax and its environs. But he’s not at all keen on this proposal, one that includes two towers that opponents have said are inappropriate for the site.

Scott Ferguson, president and CEO of Trade Centre Ltd., said it remains to be seen what the final blueprint will look like.

"If the developer can’t sell a 14-storey office tower, he’s not going to build it," he said. "We need to wait and see what he’s proposing" at the end of the planning process, Ferguson said.

Rank Inc. has until July 19 to submit a detailed proposal to the Dexter government.

Neither the province nor Halifax regional council has made a decision on the project because each level of government is waiting for the final proposal to be submitted.

Officials from Trade Centre Ltd., a provincial Crown corporation, are hosting the open houses. Last week, the public debate over the development sparked duelling sales pitches.

( mlightstone@herald.ca)

I am a bit concerned that it sounds like at this late stage of the design process the Mayor is talking about including a performing arts centre. I am not sure why this was included in the subtitle - "Centre boosters hijack heritage group's news conference". This was an open house specifically for the convention centre.

[FuzzyWuz]

[QUOTE=fenwick16;4889462

I am a bit concerned that it sounds like at this late stage of the design process the Mayor is talking about including a performing arts centre.[/QUOTE]

Honest to God. Talk about needing to keep your eye on the ball! I actually do want to see a great performing arts center but you don't just parachute it into an existing proposal with no warning.