The Great Canadian churches thread

[Fischbob]

The Church of St. Andrew and St. David in Saint John has been put up for sale by the congregation. It was constructed in 1878 following the Great Fire of 1877, and sits on Germain Street, one of the most architecturally significant residential streets in the city.


Source

Interior pictures below from this news article.





Here's hoping an adaptive reuse project comes forward soon and the building isn't allowed to deteriorate. It's priced to sell at just $249,000.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally a Presbyterian church?

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by Martin Mtl

Notre-Dame des Sept Douleurs, Verdun (Montreal)


https://www.instagram.com/p/BguaYdTF...kipunsam.daily

Wow. I have never seen the inside. Beautiful.

[The Macallan]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Originally a Presbyterian church?

It is presently a United Church, doubtless since the formation of the denomination in 1925. The original St. Andrew’s Church was indeed Presbyterian, just as you guessed. A double name often indicates there were two ancestor congregations. I do not know what a hypothetical St. David’s Church would have been. At a guess, it might have been a Welsh congregation.

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by The Macallan

It is presently a United Church, doubtless since the formation of the denomination in 1925. The original St. Andrew’s Church was indeed Presbyterian, just as you guessed. A double name often indicates there were two ancestor congregations. I do not know what a hypothetical St. David’s Church would have been. At a guess, it might have been a Welsh congregation.

A bit more info in this Facebook post, although it does not mention the specific (pre-United) denomination of St. David's.

The Church of St. Andrew and St. David is a congregation under the United Church of Canada. The United Church of Canada was formed in 1925 when the Methodists, Presbyterians and Congregationalists merged.

St. Andrew's Kirk was founded in Loyalist times in the late 1700s, and is the Mother Church (founding, original) of Presbyterianism in New Brunswick. The current building, built after the Great Saint John Fire of 1877, is 140 years old. The current congregation was formed in the late 1960s when St. David United and St. Andrews Kirk amalgamated.

[lio45]

I'm not sure a condo conversion would be financially viable in such a city as St. John. I think Montreal (example of one such conversion below) would be the cheapest kind of market where it can work. In Sherbrooke they've become things like restaurants, concert halls, and indoors rockclimbing centers, but never condos to my knowledge. And in the rural Eastern Townships outside the city, in several cases they've merely become SFHs (as they're smaller and cheaper).

Hopefully someone can make a Sherbrooke-caliber project work in that nice St. John church.


Converted Presbyterian church in Mtl:
(reasonably tastefully done IMO)

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lio45

I'm not sure a condo conversion would be financially viable in such a city as St. John.

Uptown Saint John has been undergoing a lot of apartment conversions of historic properties for the past three or four years. There's actually another nearby church, Gothic Arches, being proposed for a similar conversion.

I agree, though, that churches-to-condos is a weird conversion point. They work better as other mixed-uses.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I agree, though, that churches-to-condos is a weird conversion point. They work better as other mixed-uses.

I probably wouldn't exactly say weird, I'd rather say trickier-pricier (to do right). I think you need a bigger market than a small NB city for it to make sense, but if someone can pull it off then that's fantastic. If not, thankfully, there are other conversions that are easier to justify financially.

And I said St. John, not St. Johnzzz, I know we're talking about the one in NB.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by lio45

And I said St. John, not St. Johnzzz, I know we're talking about the one in NB.

It's Saint.

[esquire]

There have been a few condo conversions involving churches in Winnipeg, mostly in inner city areas where congregations shrank once many families decamped for the suburbs.

Here's the First Church of Christ, Scientist in Osborne Village which became a condo building some years back. From what I recall, it took forever to get it done:



Here's St. Matthew's Anglican in the West End. It was mostly converted to affordable housing a few years ago although I think there is still a church function involved:



St. John's Anglican in the North End became 7 condo units:




There are at least one or two other condo conversions, but finding pictures is a challenge. So while it can be done, it's definitely not common.

[MolsonExport]

Here's hoping they save most of these outstanding churches and cathedrals in some shape or form...even as a lapsed Catholic (rather, closer to agnostic), I absolutely love these buildings. It was sad seeing drop-dead beautiful Gothic cathedrals getting demolished in Europe...several others have been abandoned to the elements.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's Saint.

Same thing. One's the abbreviation of the other.

It's like you saying "Mtl" and I correcting you pointing out that it's "Montreal".

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by lio45

Same thing. One's the abbreviation of the other.

It's like you saying "Mtl" and I correcting you pointing out that it's "Montreal".

Yes, we all know that St is normally a short form for Saint BUT it is never acceptable as a short form for Saint in the case of Saint John. I don't know why but have been told that many times. I believe it has something to do with their city charter.
It is an acknowledged short form for St John's, NL

[ILoveHalifax]

Originally Posted by lio45

Same thing. One's the abbreviation of the other.

It's like you saying "Mtl" and I correcting you pointing out that it's "Montreal".

Yes, we all know that St is normally a short form for Saint BUT it is never acceptable as a short form for Saint in the case of Saint John. I don't know why but have been told that many times. I believe it has something to do with their city charter.
It is an acknowledged short form for St John's, NL

[Fischbob]

While we're on a Saint John kick, news of more impending church closures - this time from the Catholic Diocese: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-br...629517?cmp=rss

The 3 churches affected within Saint John city limits are:

Holy Trinity Church in Mount Pleasant

Source

St. Peter's in the North End

Source

St. John the Baptist in the South End

Source

Again, sign of the times as parishes deal with declining attendance and old, expensive-to-maintain buildings.

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by ILoveHalifax

Yes, we all know that St is normally a short form for Saint BUT it is never acceptable as a short form for Saint in the case of Saint John. I don't know why but have been told that many times. I believe it has something to do with their city charter.
It is an acknowledged short form for St John's, NL

This convention only developed in the mid-20th century. I presume it really took off when Newfoundland became part of Canada and confusion between the two cities was feared, particularly by the post office. Back then, there was also St. John's in Quebec, but that was less commonly referred to by its English name as the years wore on.

[PEI highway guy]

Originally Posted by JHikka

It's Saint.

LOL. I went to school in NB. One of the first things we were taught in Social Studies in 1973 was the difference is spelling betwen Saint John, and ST. John's NFLD, The question was on about 3 tests thast year. Do churches make a distinction between St. and Saint in names?

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Fischbob

St. John the Baptist in the South End

Source

Again, sign of the times as parishes deal with declining attendance and old, expensive-to-maintain buildings.

Ahem, I believe you meant to refer to S-a-i-n-t John the Baptist in the South End.....

(Out of curiosity, I'm really wondering why it's so important to spell it out? Only case I've ever heard of that, ever. For example right now if I look to my left I see a pile of unopened envelopes on my desk that were mailed to our Lévis duplex, the address might be alternatively rue Saint-Joseph or rue St-Joseph, it's perfectly interchangeable. I have never ever met anyone who had any issue with this interchangeability or wished to challenge it.)

[Fischbob]

Originally Posted by lio45

Ahem, I believe you meant to refer to S-a-i-n-t John the Baptist in the South End.....

(Out of curiosity, I'm really wondering why it's so important to spell it out? Only case I've ever heard of that, ever. For example right now if I look to my left I see a pile of unopened envelopes on my desk that were mailed to our Lévis duplex, the address might be alternatively rue Saint-Joseph or rue St-Joseph, it's perfectly interchangeable. I have never ever met anyone who had any issue with this interchangeability or wished to challenge it.)

It's abbreviated in the Diocese directory and on their sign:





To your question, I expect Andy6's post pretty much sums it up. The convention of not abbreviating Saint John aims to reduce confusion with St. John's. Not that it's really helped that much...

[Trevor3]

I posted here before about Our Lady of Mercy in Port au Port, Newfoundland. The preservation committee recently released a short video showing off the interior of the church with narration talking about the history of the building. It was put together by a local photographer, Jon Myers, who does some nice work.

• Video Link

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6hGVa25FGA

It's a bit heavy on the use of the fish eye lens, but shows off a beautiful building which can literally hold twice the population of the town it is in.