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  #21  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 4:21 PM
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Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
Yeah, but I bet I know what you were thinking Future Mayor, particularly with regard to the Salt Palace. I totally understand your frustration. I'm going to have to take the same stance and delete what I was in the process of writiing. Let's just say this...There have been innumerable, very plausible, attractive proposals from members of this forum on creatively developing the properties such as 2nd West and Japantown, without tearing down the Salt Palace. If you haven't kept up with or read past posts, please do so.

The only point I can fully agree with regarding the Salt Palace demolition without laughing is Project's comment that there should be an effort to take the Palace upward. I would enthusiastically support that concept in appropriate areas, along with the addition of a Hotel Tower and more exibition space at the Postal Block.

I would like to see the demolition of the Plaza and the Shilo. However, the only reason I can wait patiently for their demolition is because I agree that if push came to shove, I would rather see some of those west side parking lots filled in first. I do think the LDS Church will probably begin development of their parking lots on So. Temple before they consider redeveloping the Plaza property.
There is no development idea in the world that can get around the fact that the salt palace is a huge baracade... There is nor reason that it couldn't have been moved a few blocks west... They would have had a lot more room still been close to town... And we would have our streets back... The area between CCC and gateway would have a nice flow and would be a lot better then it is with the thing there
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  #22  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 4:37 PM
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As Delts pointed out, anything further west of where it was built would have been a huge waste of time and money by the county. Placing the arena version of the Salt Palace (which btw wasn't torn down until the early 90's, once the Delta Center was completed), another block or two west, at the time it was built would not have been successful, it would have been in the middle of a bunch of railroad tracks and would have had 2-4 blocks of vacant/dilapidated property between it and "downtown"

Honestly I don't even think about the Salt Palace as a hindrance to downtown. I simply know that if I want to get to The Gateway or ESA I just use S. Temple or 2nd South. Having the convention center in the middle of the city creates economic development opportunities in all directions. It has entrances N/S/E/W, it allows the city to surround it.

As for the comments of building up rather than out, that could have been useful for parts of the SP but large convention need large expansive continuos floor space to create a flow for visitors. Meeting rooms and conference rooms could be placed above, but not expo space. Imagine the support that would be needed throughout the main hall on the first floor to support a main hall on the second floor. It would defeat the purpose of having a very open main hall if that main hall is full of pillars.

I actually don't think the SP has hindered economic growth in the city at all. I think it has actually helped it. As was pointed out, the arena brough in the Stars then the Jazz, which resulted in the ESA, which resulted in Gateway.

As for the convention center argument north of Little America, it wouldn't have fit. That is one block the current SP takes up nearly 3 blocks, see the multiple level reasoning above.
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  #23  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 5:04 PM
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I'm not for tearing things down either, but I know this thread is hypothetical, and my nomination is easy: Tear down the goddamn Carl's Jr. that occupies a prime corner in downtown and make way for a new high-rise... Say maybe Goldman Sach's new headquarters.
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  #24  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 5:18 PM
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Let me clarify what I'm saying a bit... Because I'm tailing about a few things.

Mistake #1: original construction of the salt palace.

I don't have a problem with the arena part of the salt palace. I do think it should have been built... But using only one block (probably the south most block that it occupies). We would still have had the stars, jazz, and eventually the delta center... Plus we would still have a whole section of town.

I don't think that the convention space should have ever been built. It blocked off 100 south, and destroyed Japan town. I think that with an arena, Japan town, and a nice flow from east to west.. That growth in the part of the city would have happened a lot quicker and would be very robust by now.

Mistake #2: 1980's expansion.

This mistake was kind of a combination of the salt palace expansion over 200 west and the triad center. The underpass is a horrible idea. It doesn't look inviting and not many people want to walk through it... and it isolates yet more of the city from foot traffic... Then you have the triad developer ripping everything down to the north / west of it... And then not doing anything with the property. If not for the salt palace I think the empty triad property (now a parking lot) would have been utilized fairly quickly because it would have flowed naturally as part of the city instead of being isolated

Mistake #3: conversion from an arena to a full convention center.

The delta center had been built, union pacific was abandoning most of the railroad properties , and the gateway area redevelopment was only a matter of time. Knowing that redevelopment was going to happen on the west side the city, there was no good reason to keep the salt palace where it was. They could have built an entirely new building at the new western edge of the city, had plenty of room for expansion, and opened the city back up. There would be a way better flow between here and where gateway is now... And a lot of new development between here and there ... I think 100 south would be an awesome corridor between downtown and gateway if not for the salt palace, we wouldn't have the rape cave, and there would be plenty of room for expansion in the new west end located convention center.
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  #25  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 5:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottharding View Post
I'm not for tearing things down either, but I know this thread is hypothetical, and my nomination is easy: Tear down the goddamn Carl's Jr. that occupies a prime corner in downtown and make way for a new high-rise... Say maybe Goldman Sach's new headquarters.
This is one where no one has to loose. Tear it down, build a high-rise, and then put a new city style Carl's jr in the base of the high rise
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  #26  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 5:31 PM
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Tear down the goddamn Carl's Jr. that occupies a prime corner in downtown and make way for a new high-rise...
Not even I can argue against this idea.
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  #27  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 5:47 PM
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Originally Posted by scottharding View Post
Tear down the goddamn Carl's Jr. that occupies a prime corner in downtown and make way for a new high-rise...
This was the location of the proposed World Trade Center Utah.
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  #28  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 5:51 PM
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How about the abandond fast food joint across from the galiven center? That should go.. It's not doing anything beside growing weeds.
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  #29  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 5:57 PM
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Yeah, that one would should go too for sure. It could help usher in the rebirth of Regent street. Those two lots (Carl's Jr. and that abandoned joint) are prime with their proximity to to Gallivan. I think that now that CCC is ready to open, that area is next. With the new theater building coming, the city would be wise to turn some attention to "the Regent St. Neighborhood." In my opinion, there's no other area downtown that is so ready and in need of a make-over.
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  #30  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 6:39 PM
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This was my vision for Regent St at point during Grad School. I actually proposed a Regent St Revival as my development finance project fall of my second year. The below image is taken from East 4th St in Cleveland and I had plans for a Bowling Alley, street furniture and an artistic treatment for the parking structure. Including housing in the Press Building and the Trib building, with a connection through the buildings to Regent and Main, (which already exists. Also included underground parking.



Obviously with the theater most of my plan would have to be changed, but with the right retail aspects on the back of house space this could easily be a possibility. Even with the parking structure remaining.
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  #31  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 6:54 PM
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Hey that looks like a neat spot. What does it actually look like today?
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  #32  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 7:17 PM
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I have always strongly disliked this building at the corner of 200 E and 200 S. Mainly, because of its horrible relationship to the street (say it with me, Windows!) And because it gives the impression that evil things happen inside, like babies are tortured. That's not to say it has to be demolished. It could actually be a decent place with the addition of windows anywhere on the first three floors and the addition of a door or two.
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  #33  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 8:09 PM
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Hey that looks like a neat spot. What does it actually look like today?
Still looks like that but with a few more establishments, a completed BRT on the street at the end and several hundred new housing units nearby. In the winter it is open to one way traffic and in the summer it is closed off to allow the sidewalk seating. It also helps the Quicken Loans Arena (home of the Cavs, an AFL team and a minor league hockey team) is at the end behind where I took the picture, and next to The Q, is Progressive Field, home of the Indians.
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  #34  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 9:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Smuttynose1 View Post

And because it gives the impression that evil things happen inside, like babies are tortured. .

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  #35  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 9:32 PM
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I just laughed out loud at that, and now my boss knows I'm not actually researching a field trip to the Golden Spike National Historic Site. Awesome.
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  #36  
Old Posted Mar 7, 2012, 9:32 PM
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(I've always hated that building too, by the way...)
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  #37  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2012, 3:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Scraperdude801 View Post
I also agree, especially because the the Salt Palace was built over Salt Lake's little China Town (now there is finally some ghetto version being built in South Salt Lake, but it just isn't the same). Even though I think Earl Holding was wrong for the way in which he tried to persuade the city to build a new convention center on his land (the parking lot block just south of the new courthouse,) I secretly hoped the city would take the bait so the Salt Palace could be relocated, torn down, and the DT could grow organically between the Gateway and CCC, expanding our skyline westward, and upward, instead of destroying our limited stock of irreplaceable vibrant historical buildings every time someone decided they wanted to build a new skyscraper. Additionally, the Holding block, the parcels to the W of the Matheson courthouse (4oo S - 500 S on Main) and the 400 S block from W Temple to 200 W would have been a more ideal setting because:

1. The 400 - 500 S corridor are already home to very large, entire block, civic structures such as: City County Building, Library, Grand America Hotel, Little America Hotel, Frank E. Moss Courthouse & Expansion, the new Public Safety building, south side of Pioneer Park, Rice Eccles stadium (albeit up the road) and thus: the scale of a convention center would have been more natural in this neighborhood.

2. The 400 - 500 S corridor (especially 500 S) has developed as thoroughfares, and future Grand Boulevards, that never really experience lots of pedestrians on a daily basis.

3. The buildings listen in point #1 receive their influx of people for large events such as: fairs, protests, and celebrations -- a convention center would fit right into the theme of the neighborhood.

4. It's better for the Gateway, CCC, Pioneer Park, Broadway arts district, and all the independent retailers mixed between for their to be ample room for a large DT neighborhood to grow in their midst.

It seems like this will never be the case though. I wish that instead of expanding the Salt Palace westward, they would build vertically, and eventually place a green roof/ urban park/ statue garden / zen garden atop the building with food carts and benches so it would be a more aesthetically appropriate view for those wishing to live in our current, and future condo/apartment towers DT. People could walk, or ride an escalator up the eastern portion of the building, walk through the park setting, and then walk down the other side of the building and be in the Gateway/Arena neighborhood. Imagine the views as well! Salt Lake already has the Library, and Conference Center which allow people to walk up to the roof -- this could be a defining theme for Salt Lake architecture. As it stands, the Salt Palace is underutilized, and its design is hurting DT growth as much as the conventions it brings in helps the city, what with being such a large structure, segregating the city, and only being of use a couple times a year -- an accessible park roof could make it useful by connecting the city, and drawing people to it even when there are no conventions in town.
China town was on plumb alley (a north south street that existed between regent street and State Street.

BTW, I like that building. All it needs is street level retail with windows windows windows, but only on the first floor.

Last edited by Old&New; Mar 8, 2012 at 4:04 AM.
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  #38  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2012, 4:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jedikermit View Post
I just laughed out loud at that, and now my boss knows I'm not actually researching a field trip to the Golden Spike National Historic Site. Awesome.
I would laugh at that.

No really, this is funny, because today one of my professors asked our class if anyone had been to Promontory Point, and several people had. Then he asked, "Is it worth the trip?" . . . . "Okay, judging by your expressions.. probably not so much."
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  #39  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2012, 4:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Smuttynose1 View Post
I've always thought this building looks like a museum. I don't know why. It must be the lack of windows on the lower half and metal sculptures at street level. I agree with Smuttynose, this building would look neat if floors 2-3 had windows like in floors 4-6.
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  #40  
Old Posted Mar 8, 2012, 4:04 AM
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I love that concept, Futuremayor. If we got something along those lines for Regent street it would be an amazing connector between Gallivan and City Creek. How great would that area be!
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