HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1081  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2008, 8:29 PM
1ajs's Avatar
1ajs 1ajs is online now
ʇɥƃıuʞ -*ʞpʇ*-
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: lynn lake
Posts: 24,376
theres the old fort gary maner site at broadway and main still... we could always get a nice tower there....
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1082  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 12:35 AM
Andy6's Avatar
Andy6 Andy6 is offline
Starring as himself
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Toronto Yorkville
Posts: 7,953
Here's an interesting plan of the site from 1952, provided by the HBC to the City for flood control planning:

__________________
crispy crunchy light and snappy
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1083  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 6:52 AM
j.online j.online is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Peg City
Posts: 363
This whole either/or attitude is retarded. There's clearly plenty of room for both parties to be happy. Does anyone know of a venue for citizens to voice their opinion to PPD/council on this development? WUI folks, you should be all over this one!

Last edited by j.online; Feb 6, 2008 at 1:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1084  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 9:56 AM
The Jabroni's Avatar
The Jabroni The Jabroni is offline
Go kicky fast, okay!
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Winnipeg, Kingdom of Skeletor
Posts: 2,514
WUI should get involved. Why not have both?

Although, I'm beginning to agree with IYLR. We can't just build an apartment building for the sake of building an apartment building.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1085  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 1:46 PM
j.online j.online is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Peg City
Posts: 363
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Jabroni View Post
WUI should get involved. Why not have both?

Although, I'm beginning to agree with IYLR. We can't just build an apartment building for the sake of building an apartment building.
I'd agree with ya if the fort's footprint covered the whole site and it truly was a case of either/or. but it's not. there is more than enough room to have both the mid-rise apartment and the heritage park on the the same lot.

if russ wyatt seems so open to changing the deal for the Friends as the article suggests, maybe one of the architect types on the board could do a quick mash-up of both proposals that would work harmonious on the site and send it his way.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1086  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 5:52 PM
theruler462's Avatar
theruler462 theruler462 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 98
New plan for Upper Fort Garry
But province's cash pledge throws wrench in city's development deal
Wed Feb 6 2008

By Bartley Kives and Bruce Owen

FACED with a looming deadline and nowhere near enough cash, the group trying to preserve Upper Fort Garry has come up with a new plan to save the city's birthplace.

And it amounts to a game of hardball between the Manitoba legislature and city hall.

Back in the fall, city council gave the Friends of Upper Fort Garry until the end of March to raise $10 million toward the creation of a $12.5-million heritage park and interpretive centre in downtown Winnipeg.

Council's downtown development committee was prepared to hand over what's left of the fort -- two parcels of surplus city land along Main Street and Assiniboine Avenue, plus a small park containing Upper Fort Garry Gate -- as long as the Friends met the fundraising deadline and also bought the nearby Grain Exchange Curling Club, which sits above the fort's former footprint.

But on Tuesday, Manitoba Premier Gary Doer said the province will spend $1.5 million to help the Friends immediately buy what's left of the fort and prevent the group from having to look for millions from private donors over the next two months.


"Let's get the land first, before the March 31 deadline," Doer said. "We agree the land and the fort has to be preserved."

Doer said the provincial contribution is merely intended to secure the land and will not be put toward the creation of the park and interpretive centre.

"I give the Friends credit. They're running a great grassroots campaign, but let's make sure it succeeds in its first goal," Doer said.

Together, the three parcels of city land in question have an assessed value of $2.9 million. But the market value is higher, as an apartment developer was prepared to pay $1.2 million for a corner of the land assessed at only $507,400.

Regardless of the price, the Friends of Upper Fort Garry hope they can buy all the city land with the help of private donations as well as some form of contribution from the federal government.

"The good news is the province is on board and wants to see this happen," said Jerry Gray, who chairs the Friends' steering committee.

"The big picture is we have to go back and talk to the city about what might be worked out. And we're continuing to raise money on the private side."

The offer to outright buy the land instead of meeting the original terms of the deal was met with icy silence from Mayor Sam Katz's office on Tuesday.

A comment would be "inappropriate and preliminary" because the Friends have yet to communicate their new plans with the city, said Katz spokesman Brad Salyn.

Downtown development chairman Russ Wyatt, however, said he would be prepared to go back and rework the city's deal with the Friends.

"The resolution was not written on Mount Sinai. We can change it, but there has to be the political will to do it," Wyatt said. "I think it would be better if we sold, because we get the value for it."

Wyatt said the city would demand assurances the Friends develop the site within a short period of time, such as five years. He also said the Friends might want to consider scaling back the scope and cost of the project.

But Doer said he supports the Friends' plan to raise private funds toward the completion of a historic park that would cover the former fort's footprint and also connect to The Forks, via Bonnycastle Park.

Jim August, CEO of The Forks-North Portage Partnership, said his agency may be prepared to administer the park, provided the Friends raise the cash to build it. Parks Canada has also made a similar offer.

"In some ways, it's almost an extension of The Forks, the way it's being planned," August said.

The federal government, meanwhile, is still considering some form of funding for the Friends, but no decision has been made, said Mike Storeshaw, a spokesman for senior Manitoba MP Vic Toews.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca
__________________
take a tour of the Millenium Center
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1087  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 5:53 PM
theruler462's Avatar
theruler462 theruler462 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 98
Does Doer's $1.5-M pledge amount to KO of dream?
Wed Feb 6 2008

LAST week, as the clock ticked on the Upper Fort Garry project, I wondered out loud what was taking Premier Gary Doer so long to get behind saving the birthplace of the governance and commerce in Manitoba.

The Friends of Upper Fort Garry was asking for only $4.5 million.

Then, Tuesday morning, the premier finally met with the leaders of Friends, a volunteer group that includes -- on paper, at least -- the largest collection of the city's who's who since the ill-fated Save The Jets campaign.

By the time it was over, it was all but over.

What Doer gave the Friends was a $1.5-million slap in the face.

Friends spokesman, Jerry Gray, said he was happy with the money, even though it's $3 million less than the group needed.

What else could the poor beggar say?

Gray also insisted the premier was "100 per cent" behind the plan to build an interpretive centre and create a heritage park on the old fur fort site.

The facts -- minus the spin -- suggest otherwise.

Ultimately, the $1.5-million slap in the face could be the equivalent of a knockout punch for the Friends and its dream.

Our collective dream, really.

Gray knows it, too.

The Friends are facing a city-imposed March 31 deadline to raise $10 million of the $12.5 million to build the project.

The group once had dreams of Ottawa supplying $4.6 million.

Doer's decision has all but cancelled that level of contribution from Stephen Harper's government.

Upper Fort Garry is also a site of national importance, of course. It was the headquarters of the Hudson Bay Company when its fur-trading empire encompassed most of North America.

But why would Ottawa contribute more than the province -- or anything at all -- when our own premier doesn't even put a premium or a priority on the historically priceless property?

So short of passing the hat among a wealthy membership -- something Doer might be trying to accomplish -- the Friends are left with only one hope: Mayor Sam Katz.

Unfortunately, so far, Katz hasn't been much of a friend of the Friends.

On Monday, the mayor wasn't saying anything publicly.

But his office was said to be flabbergasted and, frankly, I can't blame them.

Suddenly, the premier who's been so conspicuously absent from the public discussion seems to be trying to dictate a new set of terms.

According to Gray, it was Doer's idea to use the promised $1.5 million for the purchase of the city property where the fort once stood.

That way, the strategy goes, the Friends could take all the time they want to raise all the money they need.

That's a huge gamble though.

First, Katz would have to agree to it when he and a city committee have already voted to sell a piece of the coveted city land for a high-rise apartment project.

Not something the mayor is likely to be keen on when a developer is involved.

But if he did agree, under Doer's plan, the Friends would have to negotiate a price.

The land involved might be assessed at $2.9 million, but that's not necessarily its street value to the city.

The parcel originally slated for the high-rise sold for $1.8 million, and it was just a corner piece.

But what's really puzzling about Doer's last-minute plan of buying the property is what Katz had already agreed to do.

The city had promised to give the land to the Friends as the city's contribution to the Upper Fort Garry project.

So why do they need to buy it?

Because of how little money the premier offered the Friends, how close the deadline is.

That leads us to a thorny question: Why should the mayor agree to sell it?

Only, I would suggest, because saving Upper Fort Garry has gone beyond merely saving and restoring a provincial and national treasure for our children.

It's become a symbol.

The Friends' attempt to save the fort is reminiscent of the attempt to save the Jets and the way our most prominent citizens just can't manage to pull in the same direction at the same time.

Saving the fort should be simple by fiscal comparison.

Instead, it's in danger of becoming another sorry symbol of our can't-do mentality.

gordon.sinclair@freepress.mb.ca
__________________
take a tour of the Millenium Center
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1088  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 7:07 PM
Boreal's Avatar
Boreal Boreal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,564
Gordon Sinclair and Lilian Thomas are one and the same. Sinclair constantly pens his diatribes and is under the assumption that Gordon Sinclair's opinion is EVERBODY'S opinion. For example, when he laments, "The Friends' attempt to save the fort is reminiscent of the attempt to save the Jets and the way our most prominent citizens just can't manage to pull in the same direction at the same time." Perhpas we don't all wish to pull in the same direction - the Sinclair direction. He goes on to say that, "Instead, it's in danger of becoming another sorry symbol of our can't-do mentality." No Gordon, you are the symbol of our can't-do mentality. The park and a much needed apartment complex can co-exist without infringing on each other.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1089  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 8:20 PM
hexrae's Avatar
hexrae hexrae is offline
Armchair urbanist
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 921
^ Agreed. I don't see why both can't co-exist. The overlap in location is unfortunate. Also, how is this building an apartment block for the sake of building one? Market demand is there with apartment vacancy rates low. I'm not naive enough to think this developer wants to build to appease us.

Normally, I'm not one to write letters/email to news articles, but this time I couldn't help it.

Quote:
Let's get right to the point. What I don't understand is your doom and gloom attitude
towards the attempt to save the fort. It's a win-win situation either way. If the
Friends group succeeds, then Winnipeg gets its world-class heritage park. If they don't,
then while we don't get the park, the winning proposal makes more than adequate
accommodations for the fort site.

See siteplan here:
http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c2...t/100MainC.jpg

Better yet, if the Friends group doesn't succeed, then perhaps they can work with the
developer. Why not promote a joint-venture, rather than "slap in the face $1.5 million"
this and "sorry symbol of our can't-do mentally" that?

I've grown up the ever-pessimist, but have developed into a strong can-do person. This
is why I can't read your articles with regularity, I'm afraid I'll relapse. If you
really care about helping this city, then quit being a critic. Otherwise, all you're
doing is fishing.
I threw in a jab at the end as an exclamation mark. I meant it more to illicit a reactionary response than to harm. I'd rather get something back than nothing, because honestly I wouldn't mind some form of intellectual conversation with him.
__________________
[Insert profound statement here]
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1090  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 9:22 PM
ILYR's Avatar
ILYR ILYR is offline
ILYR
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 517
Regardless of the outcome on this project, it is going to be messy. The city will probably get sued by whoever comes out on the bottom (specifically the developer who already had an "aggreement" with the city).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1091  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 9:40 PM
Greco Roman Greco Roman is offline
Movin' on up
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILYR View Post
Regardless of the outcome on this project, it is going to be messy. The city will probably get sued by whoever comes out on the bottom (specifically the developer who already had an "aggreement" with the city).

As they should.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1092  
Old Posted Feb 6, 2008, 9:42 PM
1ajs's Avatar
1ajs 1ajs is online now
ʇɥƃıuʞ -*ʞpʇ*-
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: lynn lake
Posts: 24,376
the developer deserves compisation for this fuck up...
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1093  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 1:42 PM
wags_in_the_peg wags_in_the_peg is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Winnipeg, MB
Posts: 1,927
Friends set to scale back Upper Fort plan
May have to drop idea of building interpretive centre on historic site

By Bartley Kives

‘We need to look at other options,’ Friends of Upper Fort Garry spokesman Jerry Gray says.
THE Friends of Upper Fort Garry are preparing to scale back their plans for a heritage park on the site of the city's birthplace after the province made it clear the group's $12.5 million design is too ambitious.

Friends spokesman Jerry Gray said the volunteer group is looking at ways to come up with a less elaborate concept for converting surplus city land into a heritage park and may jettison the idea of building an interpretive centre.

"We need to look at other options. This thing is not cast in stone," Gray said Wednesday, one day after Manitoba Premier Gary Doer pledged to spend $1.5 million to help the group secure land and preserve the site, but declined to back the Friends' conception of a heritage park and interpretive centre.

"They conveyed the fact we need to take another look at the development. And that's what we're going to do."

The Friends had asked the province for $4.5 million to help create a park and interpretive centre on two parcels of surplus city land north of Assiniboine Avenue, between Main and Fort Streets.

If the Friends don't raise a total of $10 million by March 31, the city plans to sell the southwestern parcel to Crystal Developers, which wants to build an apartment building at the corner of Fort and Assiniboine.

The Friends have always maintained they need that parcel of land, which sits outside of the fort's former footprint, to build an interpretive centre and connect to Bonnycastle Park.

But the province's lack of enthusiasm for the Friends' ambitious plan -- coupled with the fact they remain at least $8 million shy of their fundraising target -- has led the group to reconsider its options.

Gray said the Friends will still try to raise $10 million to ensure they control both parcels of the surplus city land, thus preventing Crystal from erecting an apartment building.

But the group will also try to convince the city to sell them to the land, which is assessed at $2.9 million but may be worth more than $5 million on the open market.

Winnipeg Mayor Sam Katz said he does not understand why the Friends would seek to purchase land the city is offering to give away.

"I don't think it's a very astute decision to pay for land somebody is offering to give you for free," the mayor said. "It makes no sense to me and I don't get it."

But the Friends see an outright purchase as a means of getting out of the other conditions laid out by the city, which include the purchase the Grain Exchange Curling Club, which sits on Fort Street land that sits on top of part of the Upper Fort Garry's old footprint.

"There's a risk right now we could lose everything," said Gray. "If we buy the property, we can minimize that risk. I know that means changing the conditions, but we have to go back to the city."

So far, the Friends have not spoken to the city and Katz is not entertaining any changes to its agreement with the group.

"Right now, we have a deal in place, and I don't know anything about any other deal," he said. "The Friends don't have a deal with the province. They have a deal with the city."

Katz said the March 31 fundraising deadline is not arbitrary, as Crystal Developers needs to know early in the year if its apartment building will go ahead to allow contractors to get their shovels in the ground at the beginning of the construction season.

If the Friends still want to develop a park on the eastern parcel of surplus city land, which includes most of the former fort's former footprint, the group would remain welcome to do so, the mayor said.

"That option was always on the table. But they rejected it," the mayor said.

Preserving the site of the city's birthplace is the province's sole motivation for offering $1.5 million to the Friends, a spokesman for Doer reiterated.

bartley.kives@freepress.mb.ca
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1094  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 2:48 PM
Biff's Avatar
Biff Biff is offline
What could go wrong?
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 6,048
This is just becoming a big joke now. What we are going to end up with is the Province paying $1.5 mil for land the city is going to give to them for free, the curling rink is still going to be there, the "Park" will end up being a nice grass field and a good legitimate development project – the apartment - will be driven off, most likely to be cancelled and its site will remain vacant.

It sounds that if the Friends would just work with the apartment developer we could have it all. Maybe if all these rich Friends would pony up some of their own money for a cause that they are so passionate about instead of acting like panhandlers something might get done.

I'm so pissed off that this has come to this. And i actually was starting to think that this "World Class" park and interpretive center might work.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1095  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 2:55 PM
Greco Roman Greco Roman is offline
Movin' on up
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Edmonton
Posts: 3,449
This is yet another reason to add to the list why no one will take Winnipeg seriously
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1096  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 3:49 PM
vid's Avatar
vid vid is online now
Identity Condiment
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Thunder Bay
Posts: 38,872
That's nothing.

The main opposition to Thunder Bay's water front development is Friends of Marina Park. On Tuesday night, they had a gathering. To what conclusion did they come?

"We're going to ask the city to cancel the project."

THAT'S RIGHT!!

We have gone from "Why the fuck aren't they doing anything?" to "They're doing everything wrong!" to "FUCK IT! Cancel the project!" in less than a year!!!

100 Main Street is nothing compared to Marina Park.
__________________
Thunder Bay Updated 2018!other photos | my geofiction | my cities | random things | skyscraper diagrams
It's not about what you don't have—it's the little you're given, and how far you can run with it.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1097  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 5:12 PM
The Jabroni's Avatar
The Jabroni The Jabroni is offline
Go kicky fast, okay!
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Winnipeg, Kingdom of Skeletor
Posts: 2,514
My faith in humanity just went down a few notches, after hearing that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1098  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 8:05 PM
Boreal's Avatar
Boreal Boreal is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Posts: 1,564
This is very frustrating. The Letterhead of the "Friends" features a lot of recognizeable and well-to-do names, however it appears they are only passionate to do things about the site with everybody else's money. Perhaps my right wing roots are casting through the surface, but to me, that is the true definition of a left wing liberal. Why have an enterprise that contributes to the city financially, when we can have an enterprise that withdraws revenue from the city.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1099  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 10:52 PM
Spocket's Avatar
Spocket Spocket is offline
Keep yo pimp hand strong
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Changchun , China
Posts: 2,737
Right now it looks like the main goal for the 'Fiends' is to make sure that nothing is done with that lot. That way they can take all the time they need to get their act together. That's logical as it stands but hardly does do anything beneficial for anybody. Of course, the irony is that alot of these folks had decades to get this done and they had much higher chances of succeeding before the city decided to redevelop the land I might add.
__________________
Giving you a reason to drink and drive since 1975.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1100  
Old Posted Feb 7, 2008, 11:56 PM
viperred88's Avatar
viperred88 viperred88 is offline
visionary
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wpg
Posts: 1,214
what do you guys expect the city got ignorant about the location and expected everything to be done with the year kinda of half ass planning in my books. Just like the waterpark where they want to rush to build by next year with no proper planning and forethought. Sometimes it takes more than a year to properly get things done right with projects of this magnitude.
__________________
'We shape our buildings and then they shape us. They capture the Zeitgeist, the spirit of their time.'
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Manitoba & Saskatchewan
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 2:49 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.