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  #81  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 5:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Hundred year old buildings, and character neighbourhoods built around street car lines rather than power centers make it hard for an 'urban enthusiast' like myself to trade in Winnipeg's grit / charm for tourist traps and mountains.
...

In the end, it all comes down to what you look for in a city. Winnipeg is a pretty laid back place. Everyone goes home at 5, and nobody here has any of the stress of the rat race.

Yes, and everything shuts down at 5pm (or a couple minutes to) ;-)

You're definitely right, the downtown buildings are absolutely beautiful - and have been the subject of a couple of my paintings.

However, Winnipeg has its "power centres" too, and you obviously haven't checked out Calgary thoroughly enough to make that kind of comment.

But yes, it's not for everyone - neither is Toronto, Van, etc..

Funny about the "pecking order" of cities, because yes, most every city looks down on Winnipeg (a lot of Winnipegers look down on Regina), Vancouverites look down on every city (including TO), and a lot of my friends and colleagues in TO like Calgary. Edmonton does take its share too.
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  #82  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 5:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
But my friend, I think I’d much rather be outside drinking cold beer on hot summer's day here in the 'Peg.

It great seeing people skipping work en mass to see a baseball game at Canwest park in the spring / summer months.

Some how I get the feeling you couldn't get away with this so easily in Cowtown

Ah...yes. That does sound good. However, I did like BBQing in my T-shirt tonight in Calgary as well :-)

It was in the Herald the other day that Calgarians on average now work the longest hours in the country. It's been up there for a couple years, and I remember hearing that on local radio in Van last year in a cab, and the talk-show dude said "well, it's winter for like 6 months, so what else are they going to do?" :-)
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  #83  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 5:51 AM
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Originally Posted by CCF View Post
No worries. I have devised a chart so that no matter what your location, you will know which city to despise. (Please don't anyone take me too serious )

Those smug bastards in Saskatoon..
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  #84  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 5:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Those smug bastards in Saskatoon..
Don't get me started.

I have lived in both Regina and Saskatoon though.
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  #85  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 5:55 AM
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Originally Posted by CCF View Post
No worries. I have devised a chart so that no matter what your location, you will know which city to despise. (Please don't anyone take me too serious )

Well you go it mostly right, except Toronto and Victoria both look down on EVERYONE ELSE, not just a select few.
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  #86  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 5:56 AM
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personally i wouldnt trade the lakes and cottage country of manitoba for the tourist infested mountains....outdoor opportunities are just as available here, especially if you are not part of the 1% who downhill ski....i have never actually seen the recreational opportunity of mountains...
Funny you should mention all that in a single sentence.

I moved out here to be closer to the mountains BECAUSE they're nowhere near as "tourist infested" as the lake country around Winnipeg. Sure, if you think mountains=Banff and skiiing, then yeah - tourist hell. However, there are thousands of square kilometres of mountains, and it takes all of a 15 minute walk in most directions to leave nearly everyone behind. Most mountains that I hike up, I see maybe 20 people in an 8 hour day. Very outdoorsy, very quiet, very relaxing.

After enough years of seeing the Whiteshell turn into a tourist hell (jeez, last September I was in TRAFFIC JAM there - this is relaxing!?), and the LOTW area get far too overcrowded, I actually found the mountains to be a refreshing change. It helps that I don't stick to the car-accessible areas. The last few years in Winnipeg, I was going further and further out (3+ hour drive to Vermillion Bay) just to escape the throngs. I've managed to find a small unknown lake, no road access and no development, in Ontario (and no, I won't share where!) and that's my summer vacation spot now. But most of it? Lined with cottages, noisy boats/Seadoos going all day long, and hordes of people everywhere. It seems like every damn lake has a road in to it these days, and cottages spaced closer together than many city neighbourhoods.

I'll give you the beaches, the fishing (although the trout fishing here is AMAZING), and the joy of 10,000 lakes within a couple hours drive. I miss all that. But tourists? There are far fewer of them in the mountains than most people think. You just need to get off the Trans-Canada.
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  #87  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:00 AM
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Originally Posted by m0nkyman View Post
Well you go it mostly right, except Toronto and Victoria both look down on EVERYONE ELSE, not just a select few.
Well, in my defense I spent about 5 minutes on that. Looking over it, I should have included lines connecting Saskatoon-Calgary, Saskatoon-Winnipeg, Vancouver-Edmonton, etc. But to accurately depict the relationship amongst all of Canada would take some time.

I mean where do I start....does Whitehorse hate Yellowknife, or does Yellowknife hate Whitehorse?
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  #88  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
It's great seeing people skipping work en mass to see a baseball game at Canwest in the spring / summer months. Somehow I get the feeling you couldn't get away with this so easily in the hustle and bustle of Cowtown.
Don't let the media's obsession with the "fast-paced Calgary lifestyle" fool you. It's a complete fabrication. We have a lot fewer seniors here, and a LOT more young families shuttling kids around, so yeah, on average, people are busier. There's also definitely a subset of the population who still thinks it's the 1980s. Gotta buy a new sports car every year, gotta work till 10pm and then go for drinks with "the boys", that sort of thing.

But the average Joe? You should see what downtown looks like when the Flames are in the playoffs. Ghost town. Everyone skips work at 2pm to get a seat at a watering hole to watch the game. During Stampede, the entire city basically takes a 10 day vacation. Thousands of office workers at a time take 3 hour liquid lunches. Every other block downtown gets turned into one massive outdoor breakfast buffet. You're basically expected to show up in casual wear all week long, and if you actually sit down at your desk before about 10am, people look at you funny. I was, no word of a lie, told to "take it easy" when it was discovered that I "only" went to 3 breakfasts this year.

I'd love to see a study on vacation allotments sometime. I remember living in Winnipeg thinking that 3 weeks vacation was a lot, and 4+ meant you worked for the government (and for many years). Here, I hardly know anyone who started with less than 3 weeks, plus anywhere from 5-20 flex days on top of that. Relaxed lifestyle? I pretty much take a long weekend every week, all summer long - and STILL go away for 4 weeks somewhere. I'm told this is just about average for the big O&G companies - and no, we don't work 85 hour weeks to make up for it.

Like everywhere, you can find good examples and bad examples - but the average office worker here seems to have a fair bit less stress in their life than I remember from working in Winnipeg. Of course, folks without a full-time job are usually VERY stressed here, as making rent every month becomes a challenge. But those people seem to be few and far between.
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  #89  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:33 AM
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From an "urban" perspective - I know you've been to Calgary - but I have found Calgary to be better than Winnipeg...and that of course is only going to get better (my personal experience is from 4-7 years ago). But yes, I see your point that it is no where near TO or Montreal, and still behind Vancouver as well.
that is personal too...the things i like about winipeg i dont find in calgary...in general all the prairie cities offer a similar level of 'urbanity'...i disagree that it is any more urban than winnipeg....they are quite comparable in downtown populations....the beltline and osborne are similar in populations and character.....both are essentially suburban cities where the single family home is king....i could make an argument that winnipeg is even more urban in its overall form, but comparasin is not the point.

i totally understand people who move to calgary for the money and i also understand that most of the world prefers cul de sac suburbs and shiny skyscrapers....i dont begrudge them that.

for me personally, i prefer a city of neighbourhoods like winnipeg...i like that our city has a bit of grunge to it.....i like all the treed strets and old houses....i like its history and character...i like the diversity....i know i am in the minority....

i guess my point is that just as with the respective outdoor activites, each city offers somewhat different amenities, but not drastically more of any one thing....they are not vastly different cities, like montreal or toronto would be...so, the choice to live in any of the prairie cities is really a matter of which of these slight variations (lake vs. mountain) are important to you....and the original point was that for me, the prairie cities are not different enough to warrant the increased cost of living......if i was going to incur that expense, i would want a greater change in urban experience.

Last edited by trueviking; Jan 25, 2007 at 6:48 AM.
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  #90  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:34 AM
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Funny you should mention all that in a single sentence.

I moved out here to be closer to the mountains BECAUSE they're nowhere near as "tourist infested" as the lake country around Winnipeg. Sure, if you think mountains=Banff and skiiing, then yeah - tourist hell. However, there are thousands of square kilometres of mountains, and it takes all of a 15 minute walk in most directions to leave nearly everyone behind. Most mountains that I hike up, I see maybe 20 people in an 8 hour day. Very outdoorsy, very quiet, very relaxing.
that is great, if that is what you like....sitting in the bush by myself isnt my bag....walking up the side of a mountain doesnt turn me on....i like sitting on a beautiful white sand beach with tens of thousands of other people....i like sitting in the hot sun on the dock of my parents cottage with a beer or two...maybe going for a ski once in a while.

that is exactly my point as far as outdoor amenities goes anyways....both places offer different things...neither is better or worse....it just matters what is important to you personally.


Last edited by trueviking; Jan 25, 2007 at 6:44 AM.
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  #91  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:40 AM
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Don't let the media's obsession with the "fast-paced Calgary lifestyle" fool you. It's a complete fabrication.
...
But the average Joe? You should see what downtown looks like when the Flames are in the playoffs. Ghost town. Everyone skips work at 2pm to get a seat at a watering hole to watch the game. During Stampede, the entire city basically takes a 10 day vacation. Thousands of office workers at a time take 3 hour liquid lunches. Every other block downtown gets turned into one massive outdoor breakfast buffet. You're basically expected to show up in casual wear all week long, and if you actually sit down at your desk before about 10am, people look at you funny. I was, no word of a lie, told to "take it easy" when it was discovered that I "only" went to 3 breakfasts this year.
...
I'd love to see a study on vacation allotments sometime. I remember living in Winnipeg thinking that 3 weeks vacation was a lot, and 4+ meant you worked for the government (and for many years). Here, I hardly know anyone who started with less than 3 weeks, plus anywhere from 5-20 flex days on top of that. Relaxed lifestyle? I pretty much take a long weekend every week, all summer long - and STILL go away for 4 weeks somewhere. I'm told this is just about average for the big O&G companies - and no, we don't work 85 hour weeks to make up for it.
Well, as I posted above, Calgarians on average are working long hours - personally I think thats from a lot of Torontonians moving here ;-), and the huge bonuses for performance.

Truthfully, I guess I'm in a similar situation - I've had nearly every Friday off for the last 3 years, and had 6 weeks off last year (our child was born, so took "extra" time on top of the 4 weeks I already get).

Stampede is like that, but it is only 10 days...however, I do remember my first Stampede in "corporate Calgary" when my manager handed me a ticket to the Bullshooters breakfast - I thought $75 was a lot for breakfast, until I saw the jugs of beer and "orange juice" at the tables...never went to work that week at all ;-)

As for the mountains comment - yeah, there's tons of spectacular places - for skiing (and it's a little more than "1%"), snowmobiling, hiking, etc...everyone just assumes Banff.

Still miss Grand Beach though.
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  #92  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:46 AM
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winnipegger's first impressions of calgary.. (in detail)

so i was in calgary (just for fun) last weekend (friday the 19th-sunday the 21st) for just over 48 hours and i tried to cover as much ground as i could even though most of saturday i was really hungover here's the impressions i got from the city to hopefully add to this discussion..

flying over the NE section of the city upon descent at 8am what struck me:
-bumper to bumper traffic.
-new roads, subdivisions and cloverleafs u/c like MAD.
-skyline and mountains beckoning this manitoba boy as we pulled up to the gate.

thoughts on the airport:
-clean, convenient, cowboy hat-clad tourist info people were easy to find and helpful.
-help wanted signs all over already in the airport.
-plane-themed marry-go-rounds as i got off the plane, dinosaurs hanging from the ceilings and alberta-themed displays at the luggage pick-up bays cluttered the place up a little too much for my liking (TACKY!), but overall it's a nice airport =)

then we walk outside to catch the bus to the ctrain station:
-it was -30 in winnipeg when i left and in calgary it was -6 and barely any snow.. that sure did help me feel welcome and i mean that with all my heart.
-bus whisked me to whitehorn station in under 20 minutes where a ctrain was promptly waiting to take me downtown.. side note: i always paid my fare, but seriously, if i wanted to all the times i took the ctrain over the weekend, i could've easily not paid at all as nobody or any machine checked if i had a ticket or transfer. what's up with that? they rely on you being honest and pay your fare or did i just accidentally sneak in somehow? no clue here.
-ctrain got me downtown in roughly 20 minutes, at 9am i was expecting it to be packed but i was able to get a window seat, it was pretty clean and easy to use for this first time ctrain user.
-all in all, from the airport to downtown it took me maybe 45 minutes during the morning rush for $2.25. NIIIIICE!

so i got off at the city hall station, dropped off my luggage at the hotel (marriott fyi) and spent the rest of the day exploring downtown to waste time til i met up with my friends at 5pm. impressions of downtown:
-feels A LOT bigger than i woulda thought for the size of the city, but i was expecting that.. almost thought i was in minneapolis at some moments!
-stephen ave. ped mall was great with its two to three blocks of nicely preserved and human-scaled heritage buildings. very busy and clean too. BUT! i was asked for money on the same scale as walking down portage avenue in winnipeg just walking between centre st. to the barclay mall. so it's not as bad as we think fellow winnipeggers!
-the core malls were good the odd hour or two i spent kicking around in them.
-the plus 15 system is so extensive! i had a good time getting lost in there and i love how the logo for it has that guy with the cowboy hat on it. very unique!
-eau claire market = blah.. i know it's winter and i was told it wasn't worth checking it out, but i was curious.
-walked through prince's island park and then on up the seemingly thousands of stairs to crescent road to check out the views and they did indeed impress me! (no i didn't have a camera with me at any moment over the weekend.. i'm in the process of getting a new one as my last one is no longer working good) the homeowners up there are sure lucky.. really is a million dollar view.
-walked through the glenbow museum after for a bit.. it's big and one floor was closed for construction, but other than that, it needs to be brought out of the 70s badly, most displays were quite lacking as well. MB museum for comparison is waaaay more focused on quality and detail, even though it too needs major upgrading.
-all the downtown construction sites intrigued me too.. there's pretty much one per block. boom is right! made the city feel quite energized compared to what i'm used to. centrium in person isn't at all what the renderings would lead you to think tho...

friday night = drunken haze so no major impressions from that night.

satruday during the day i took the ctrain to the chinook centre mall from the 7th ave free zone - now that's a good way to get people to take transit! good on calgary for that one! impressions:
-INSANITY! but that's to be expected at any mall on a saturday - lines for everything, help wanted signs everywhere once again, weird design, small foodcourt and confusing layout. like the airport, if it got rid of some of the clutter it would be a lot nicer. besides banana republic and a couple other stores, no real difference in shopping choices as compared to winnipeg's polo park mall. i wasn't in town to shop anyway.

sat. night went to joey's at eau claire for supper (hot staff as to be expected ), downtown was surprisingly dead even by my humble winnipeg standards.. but i guess everyone was gone to the red mile or whatever it's called instead of downtown. never got a chance to make it down there =( then once again for the remainder of saturday night i don't remember much due to a couple stiff drinks.. speaking of drunkeness, a 2-6 of smirnoff vodka was like $27 as compared to ~$22 in winnipeg. did i get fleeced or something? i thought booze was cheaper in alberta =(

then sunday, didn't do much but pack and head to the airport for my flight out at 3pm.

overall impressions: i liked it! there's a certain energy you can definitely feel in that town, but it does lack the depth and grit of winnipeg in that it feels so new and is growing so fast. lastly, one thing that really jumped out to me and the fellow winnipegger i was with was how white the population of calgary seems to be - downtown, the malls, the bars - a lot more caucasian compared to what i'm used to in winnipeg. anyone else notcie that?

so that's my take on calgary. i could've gone on in a lot more detail but those are the main things i observed =)
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  #93  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:47 AM
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that is personal too...the things i like about winipeg i dont find in calgary...in general all the prairie cities offer a similar level of 'urbanity'...i disagree that it is any more urban than winnipeg....they are quite comparable in downtown populations....the beltline and osborne are similar in populations and character.....both are essentially suburban cities where the single family home is king....i could make an argument that winnipeg is even more urban in its overall form, but comparasin is not the point.

i totally understand people who move to calgary for the money and i also understand that most of the world prefers cul de sac suburbs and shiny skyscrapers....i dont begrudge them that.

for me personally, i prefer a city of neighbourhoods like winnipeg...i like that our city has a bit of grunge to it.....i like all the treed strets and old houses....i like its history and character...i like the diversity....i know i am in the minority....

i guess my point is that just as with the respective outdoor activites, each city offers somewhat different amenities, but not drastically more of any one thing....so, the choice to live in any of the prairie cities is really a matter of which of these slight variations (lake vs. mountain) are important to you.
TV - we've been through this one before, remember - the core populations? It is close, but that will change within the next 5-10 years. You trigger a defense when you try and write Calgary off as "cul de sac suburbs and shiny skyscrapers"...you should know better. If you don't, you should likely do yourself a favour and visit Calgary properly...Kensington, Inglewood, Connaught, Marda Loop, Mission, etc. And future areas such as Bridges, and Garrison Woods/Green.

I'll give Winnipeg the grunge though.
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  #94  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:54 AM
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Its funny because I come across the same misconceptions about Winnipeg here as well. A couple people from the work who went to the Grey Cup couldn't stop saying how surprisingly beautiful Winnipeg was ... which was a 180 from what they were saying before they left. I just told them they should see it in summer.. they would be in for a real treat.

It seems people here in Calgary only know Calgary and seem to think its the best because the media here continously repeats it in the desparate attempt to keep the people satisfied. The reality is Calgary has declined many levels in terms of quality of life in the last 10 years. It is not nearly as attractive as it once was. Now its exactly what it promotes itself as a... boomtown. It does have economic opportunity, but is lacking in most other ways... almost a bigger version of Fort McMurray. It all feels so temporary, which may account for the lack of community.
You've hit the nail on the head with Calgarians thinking we are the best. There are few things in life I enjoy more than dumping all over other Canadian cities, especially those to the east of Calgary.

Quote:
It is in such a hurry to make a quick buck it levels some of its public attractions, such as Eau Clair and Penny Lane for highrises. I guess thats the cost of being a boomcity. I think Calgary would have been a much nicer city if it grew at a slower rate and enhanced its public ammenities and quality of life. Each day it feels more like a bank machine .. a fancy new bank machine, but still a bank machine.
Well actually, Eau Claire hasn't been "levelled" yet, and I won't shed a tear for it when it goes. That project was a failure from day 1, and the new Eau Claire complex will be soooo much better. As far as Penny Lane goes, I will miss Cowboys and Ceili's but at least the new development will include some retail and a club/restaurant from the same group. As far as being a bank machine...ya, so? I love bank machines...


Quote:
As for the mountains ... well they are nice I admit, although I have been here for almost 2 years and have been there 3 times. For me I'd take the powder soft sands of the amazing beaches around Winnipeg over the moutains anyday. I do enjoy looking at the moutains from my office though.. very nice.

I wonder what it would be like to work at an office building overlooking the lake.
I guess that's because you are from Winnipeg. As a Calgarian, I've never really been fond on lakes and such, and would take a day on the hill over pretty much anything.
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  #95  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Only The Lonely.. View Post
Amen. Calgary is due for a bust anyways.

In a sick way, i'm kinda actually looking forward to an empty Encana tower or some other pompous mega structure in downtown Calgary.

In Winnipeg's defense, i'm pretty certain that everybody from outside Calgary gets ragged on. Would people's reaction be any different if you told them you were from Hamilton, Edmonton or Saskatoon?
OK buddy, talk to me when that actually plays out. Then I will stop laughing at poor old Winnipeg...
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  #96  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff View Post
so i was in calgary (just for fun) last weekend (friday the 19th-sunday the 21st) for just over 48 hours and i tried to cover as much ground as i could even though most of saturday i was really hungover here's the impressions i got from the city to hopefully add to this discussion..

overall impressions: i liked it! there's a certain energy you can definitely feel in that town, but it does lack the depth and grit of winnipeg in that it feels so new and is growing so fast. lastly, one thing that really jumped out to me and the fellow winnipegger i was with was how white the population of calgary seems to be - downtown, the malls, the bars - a lot more caucasian compared to what i'm used to in winnipeg. anyone else notcie that?
Well, you made the same mistakes most others make - you didn't leave the core. You didn't even walk the 8 short blocks from your hotel to wonder 17th, beltline, 4th (mission), 1st, etc.

You wasted your time at Eau Claire - after someone warned you (FYI, it is being torn down to be completely rebuilt).

You took the C-train to Chinook of all places - and you weren't there to shop (????)...which, by the way, has the largest food court for a mall - and several stores not in Winnipeg (last I checked), Williams-Sonoma, Pottery Barn, Zara, FCUK, Billabong, etc. anyway.

And Calgary has the third most diverse population in the country - after TO and Van, so no, I have never noticed "that".

But glad you liked what you saw.
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  #97  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 6:58 AM
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.... thats being generious. The eastern media still projects Calgary as a redneck cowtown, which many people in Canada think of when Calgary is mentioned.

Yes Calgary is a pickup truck loving stampede town... but should that be held against it?? Using Calgary's norrow minded views of the rest of Canada I would have to say yes.... but then again I could be wrong.
Frankly I love my pickup truck. Most Calgarians who were actually born here or have lived most of their lives here have stopped caring what Eastern Canada and the Toronto Star thinks. They hate us and we hate them. C'est la vie!
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  #98  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 7:04 AM
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Originally Posted by IntotheWest View Post
TV - we've been through this one before, remember - the core populations? It is close, but that will change within the next 5-10 years.
.
yeah...and we established that the core populations are the same, did we not?.....if it will be different in 10 years then i will change my tune.....but until then....what i said is the truth.

in comparasin to the overall population of the cities, both will still be overwhelmingly suburban single family home dominant...that is what i said, and that is the truth......in fact, twice as many people live in tall buildings in winnipeg as compared to calgary.....

is calgary's urban population growing as a percentage of the overall population?...i doubt it.

i wasnt writing off calgary.....it has some very nice neighbourhoods...i didnt say that it doesnt....it still has a far greater proportion of shiny skyscrapers and cul de sac development though......we have been through that many times before too...it is hard to argue....and my point was that most people like that.
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  #99  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 7:09 AM
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Jeff Jeff is offline
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Originally Posted by IntotheWest View Post
Well, you made the same mistakes most others make - you didn't leave the core. You didn't even walk the 8 short blocks from your hotel to wonder 17th, beltline, 4th (mission), 1st, etc.

You wasted your time at Eau Claire - after someone warned you (FYI, it is being torn down to be completely rebuilt).

You took the C-train to Chinook of all places - and you weren't there to shop (????)...which, by the way, has the largest food court for a mall - and several stores not in Winnipeg (last I checked), Williams-Sonoma, Pottery Barn, Zara, FCUK, Billabong, etc. anyway.

And Calgary has the third most diverse population in the country - after TO and Van, so no, I have never noticed "that".

But glad you liked what you saw.
48 hours didn't give me much time to stray too far from downtown and i planned my trip to calgary in less than a week so i didn't have much time to research places to go. i stayed across the street from the calgary tower and i never went in it as an example! as for chinook centre when i went there, i was pretty groggy still from the night before and i just went there to check the place out and grab lunch quick cuz i didn't have too much time.. so that might explain me not seeing all the stores like FCUK at least cuz i would have stopped there. but i'm sticking to my claim of the not-so-diverse population. but i guess i did see mainly the downtown business crowd. as for eau claire, what's the plan for that since they're tearing 'er down?
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  #100  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2007, 7:23 AM
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Originally Posted by trueviking View Post
yeah...and we established that the core populations are the same, did we not?.....if it will be different in 10 years then i will change my tune.....but until then....what i said is the truth.

in comparasin to the overall population of the cities, both will still be overwhelmingly suburban single family home dominant...that is what i said, and that is the truth......in fact, twice as many people live in tall buildings in winnipeg as compared to calgary.....

is calgary's urban population growing as a percentage of the overall population?...i doubt it.
Yes, we agreed in that lengthy and researched thread that they were similar ;-).

However, the "twice as many people live in tall buildings in winnipeg" thing, I'm not so sure of...is this the over 5 storey stat? There's a lot of 4 storey places in Calgary, and not too many 25+ storey places in Winnipeg ;-)

Regardless, the multi-family dwelling growth is huge - it makes up at least 35% of new construction now, and that urban population will skyrocket in the core - especially Connaught and east village, but also out towards Bridges and Garrison...but I'm sure you check the Calgary Construction thread, so you're aware. The biggest thing that will now dictate that lifestyle transition from "cul-de-sac" to denser urban forms will be the price...as this thread alludes to for Calgary. We bought our house in the burbs (not a cul-de-sac though :-), for $240k - and is now worth $450k. If we had to make the same decision now, we'd have considered buying a townhome or 2-bed condo (we had a townhome in the beltline...and loved it).

There's also growth around the C-train stations to the south now - so the future of TODs is bright in Calgary.

Winnipeg has a few good urban areas to live, but unless you've actually lived in Calgary's core, I think you'd find it very hard to compare to be honest.
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