What's a long commute for each city? What are the worst commutes you know of?

[FFX-ME]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I think it would be interesting to try and figure out how much commuting time is due to distance, and how much is due to congestion.

I had to go into the Moncton Hospital on call last night at 12:15AM, and it took me 8 minutes to get there on mostly empty streets.

Going back in there to work this morning at 7:45AM, using the same route, it took me 14 minutes (a difference of 6 minutes). Traffic was relatively light this morning for some reason, but I thought this was an interesting comparison.

That data is readily available every year from Tom Tom. Here are the 2015 numbers. These are percentages of the commute time which is due to congestion:

1. Vancouver 34%
2. Toronto 28%
3. Montreal 26%
4. Ottawa 26%
5. Halifax 26%
6. Winnipeg 22%
7. Edmonton 21%
8. Quebec 21%
9. Calgary 19%
10. London 18%
11. Hamilton 16%
12. Kitchener-Waterloo 16%

http://www.newswire.ca/news-releases...573038931.html

[someone123]

The congestion ranking fits what I perceive to be the traffic frustration levels of the different cities more closely than the travel times. Toronto's a bigger city for example and people seem to commute farther there than in the Vancouver area, but Vancouver seems a bit worse in terms of how much you sit in traffic congestion. Halifax is smaller and people can easily avoid having to do a long commute but there are still bad bottlenecks all over the place and there is a lot of congestion.

Those times are the averages but at rush hour it goes up to 65% in Vancouver and 60% in Toronto.

Another interesting question is the variability in congestion delays. For most people it's better to have a 25% delay every day and know how long it takes to get somewhere than it is to have a 0% delay 3/4 of the time and a 100% delay 1/4 of the time. In the more variable case if you want to get to work on time on more than 3/4 of the days you have to get to work the equivalent of an extra whole commute early every day. I know people who are stuck in this situation. They have to show up to work 30 or 45 minutes early because they can't risk being late.

[FFX-ME]

Seems the numbers from the article I shared are out of date. Here are the most recent values:

Vancouver: average = 39%, morning = 54%, evening = 72%
Toronto: average = 30%, morning = 50%, evening = 62%
Montreal: average = 29%, morning = 48%, evening = 59%
Ottawa: average = 28%, morning = 44%, evening = 63%
Québec: average = 24%, morning = 40%, evening = 58%
Halifax: average = 24%, morning = 42%, evening = 46%
Winnipeg: average = 24%, morning = 35%, evening = 47%
Calgary: average = 20%, morning = 28%, evening = 39%
Edmonton: average = 20%, morning = 25%, evening = 36%
London: average = 20%, morning = 25%, evening = 34%
Hamilton: average = 18%, morning = 29%, evening = 40%
Kitchener: average = 18%, morning = 28%, evening = 33%

It's interesting how these numbers give you details regarding the working schedule of the city or whether it's easier to get in our out.

[MolsonExport]

is tim horton's coffee basically just boiled dirt?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

The congestion ranking fits what I perceive to be the traffic frustration levels of the different cities more closely than the travel times. Toronto's a bigger city for example and people seem to commute farther there than in the Vancouver area, but Vancouver seems a bit worse in terms of how much you sit in traffic congestion. Halifax is smaller and people can easily avoid having to do a long commute but there are still bad bottlenecks all over the place and there is a lot of congestion.

Those times are the averages but at rush hour it goes up to 65% in Vancouver and 60% in Toronto.

Another interesting question is the variability in congestion delays. For most people it's better to have a 25% delay every day and know how long it takes to get somewhere than it is to have a 0% delay 3/4 of the time and a 100% delay 1/4 of the time. In the more variable case if you want to get to work on time on more than 3/4 of the days you have to get to work the equivalent of an extra whole commute early every day. I know people who are stuck in this situation. They have to show up to work 30 or 45 minutes early because they can't risk being late.

By far the worst period of my worklife was when I was facing this situation basically every single day. Very stressful and debilitating.

[Fischbob]

My commute in Saint John is a 10 minute walk within the Uptown. While I was living with my parents in Millidgeville, it was about a 12-15 minute drive to get Uptown. Average commuting time within the city itself is 16.2 minutes (source).

A lot of commuters come in from more outlying suburbs, particularly from the Kennebecasis Valley northeast of the city. Our highway infrastructure (Route 1) cuts straight past the Uptown, making things fairly quick travel-wise. Congestion isn't too much of a concern except at the ramps at peak times.

For major suburban communities in greater SJ, average commute times are 18.4 minutes (Rothesay), 22.2 minutes (Quispamsis), and 23.2 minutes (Grand Bay-Westfield).

Data notes: Statscan's Focus on Geography series allows you to browse average commute times as low as the CSD level, which is where I got the numbers above. It can provide some insight on commuting times on a sub-regional basis. Another relevant dataset to this discussion is Commuting Flows, where you can choose a CSD from the drop-down menu and see the number of people commuting in and out as well as where they're coming from/going.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

By far the worst period of my worklife was when I was facing this situation basically every single day. Very stressful and debilitating.

My current commute is by car through city streets. It is congested at rush hour but there's always an alternative. The biggest chunk of my commute was completely blocked off the other day and it added 10 minutes or so to my trip.

If you commute over a major bridge in Vancouver like the Ironworkers and there's an accident you are completely screwed. There isn't really an alternate route because the Lions Gate is somewhat far away, lower capacity, and always already congested. Back in the summer there were multiple times I tried to cross the Burrard Inlet, waited 1-2 hours, and simply gave up and went home. If you are commuting to work over the bridges there is no realistic way you can reliably get to work on time 95% of the time. You just have to accept that the odd day will be a complete disaster.

Likewise if Expo line SkyTrain going into downtown Vancouver has a delay and you have to take transit, your commute increases by the amount of the delay. It takes them an hour or more to start backup bus service along the route and it is impossible for the buses to carry the traffic. And there is no redundancy to the system like the green and orange lines in Montreal, which can both get you somewhat close to destinations in the core of the city.

Housing prices take all this into account. This is the big reason why areas Surrey and North Vancouver or Dartmouth are cheaper. It's also why it is hard to compare housing prices in different Canadian cities. North Vancouver is very close to downtown Vancouver but the commute is worse than many neighbourhoods south of the Burrard Inlet that are farther away as the crow flies.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by someone123

The congestion ranking fits what I perceive to be the traffic frustration levels of the different cities more closely than the travel times. Toronto's a bigger city for example and people seem to commute farther there than in the Vancouver area, but Vancouver seems a bit worse in terms of how much you sit in traffic congestion. Halifax is smaller and people can easily avoid having to do a long commute but there are still bad bottlenecks all over the place and there is a lot of congestion.

Those times are the averages but at rush hour it goes up to 65% in Vancouver and 60% in Toronto.

Another interesting question is the variability in congestion delays. For most people it's better to have a 25% delay every day and know how long it takes to get somewhere than it is to have a 0% delay 3/4 of the time and a 100% delay 1/4 of the time. In the more variable case if you want to get to work on time on more than 3/4 of the days you have to get to work the equivalent of an extra whole commute early every day. I know people who are stuck in this situation. They have to show up to work 30 or 45 minutes early because they can't risk being late.

Very true.

We're fortunate in that regard, as far as coastal cities go.

Route 2 gets you, at 100 km/hr, from downtown to Holyrood. Stops along this length, the southwest band of built-up area, are where the vast majority of our commuters (and our overall CMA population) live so it makes it very easy. It's only if you're exiting into Mount Pearl or Paradise that you will be frustratingly delayed. And even then the highway is better than any of the other possible routes into your municipality.



Congestion here is for the rest of us, moving within the city. If you live in Topsail.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by someone123

If you commute over a major bridge in Vancouver like the Ironworkers and there's an accident you are completely screwed. There isn't really an alternate route because the Lions Gate is somewhat far away, lower capacity, and always already congested. Back in the summer there were multiple times I tried to cross the Burrard Inlet, waited 1-2 hours, and simply gave up and went home. If you are commuting to work over the bridges there is no realistic way you can reliably get to work on time 95% of the time. You just have to accept that the odd day will be a complete disaster.

Every now and then it's worth taking an extreme NIMBY position, and I think that there should be a moratorium on new development - especially commercial development - on the North Shore until new transportation links are built across Burrard inlet. This may be never, so that moratorium should probably be permanent. As it stands, both bridges are at capacity during most hours of the day, and there are zero alternative routes that you can take. Additionally, there is increasing pressure from development in Squamish and Whistler which have just one road to access Metro Vancouver (unless taking a 600km detour through Lillooet is considered an "option").

I've never considered living on the North Shore. Not only can it be difficult to get to, but intra-city travel is basically restricted to the Upper Levels highway (out of the way), or an extremely congested Marine Dr. which must share traffic coming off the Lion's Gate bridge.

I think it's very quaint of planners in North and West Vancouver to believe that building high-density, walkable and mixed use nodes will somehow solve the transportation problem because people will walk everywhere. Those thousands of new residents - and particularly office workers - still need to have goods shipped to them, or get off the North Shore to access all the other jobs and services that people need to access to live typical lives.

I don't normally advocate for this, but I think it would've been best for the region if the North Shore would've remained a wealthy enclave of low density neighbourhoods.

[Doug]

Originally Posted by Acajack

By far the worst period of my worklife was when I was facing this situation basically every single day. Very stressful and debilitating.

That's a small town or public sector attitude. The advantages of getting to work early are numerous beyond not being late. Often, an employee who arrives early can leave early which speeds the evening commute. If you can't start early and leave early, numerous other options are available : go to the gym, run errands (which could be online activities like banking and shopping), eat breakfast or even keep your work clothes at work so you can shower there. Workplaces have never been more flexible and technology never more enabling. I find hitting the road immediately after getting out of bed no matter the mode of transportation is the best plan. It is far too easy to waste time in the morning.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by someone123

...

Those times are the averages but at rush hour it goes up to 65% in Vancouver and 60% in Toronto.

Another interesting question is the variability in congestion delays...

Anecdotally, In Vancouver, I can say that I've done my commutes in both peak and off peak hours, and the variability is normally twice to three times as long in peak hours, and has been even four or more times as long in extremely bad conditions.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Doug

That's a small town or public sector attitude. The advantages of getting to work early are numerous beyond not being late. Often, an employee who arrives early can leave early which speeds the evening commute. If you can't start early and leave early, numerous other options are available : go to the gym, run errands (which could be online activities like banking and shopping), eat breakfast or even keep your work clothes at work so you can shower there. Workplaces have never been more flexible and technology never more enabling. I find hitting the road immediately after getting out of bed no matter the mode of transportation is the best plan. It is far too easy to waste time in the morning.

Well, in that particular place there wasn't a possibility of leaving early as there was always stuff coming down the pipe (pike?) late in the day. And few opportunities to take back my extra time by taking an afternoon off on a Friday or something.

For the record, it wasn't in a small town and it wasn't a public sector job. But nice attempt at a slag anyway!

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Doug

That's a small town or public sector attitude.

That's the attitude of someone who has a life beyond working.

(or someone who just enjoys sleeping in a little later)

[Pinion]

I just changed my work hours to 6am to 2pm because I'm sick of gridlock in Vancouver. I live 7km from work downtown, but a large ocean inlet is in the way so it's about 15km by road.

I used to leave work at 3pm, which was already traffic avoidance... but it's still 45+ minutes at that time. Takes 20 minutes in the morning, maybe 10-15 with my new hours since traffic is already thick on Vancouver's skinny residential streets - i.e. the only way to get to downtown - at 6:30ish am.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's the attitude of someone who has a life beyond working.

(or someone who just enjoys sleeping in a little later)

Merci.

I am actually an early riser. I am normally awake by 6 without needing an alarm clock. I'd love to work 7-3 or something like that but none of the jobs I've ever had lend themselves to that schedule.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Acajack

By far the worst period of my worklife was when I was facing this situation basically every single day. Very stressful and debilitating.

I'm lucky my work hours are flexible. Relying on the TTC in Toronto is a crap shoot - some days it only takes an hour, some days it can take two hours or more. Yesterday was one of those days it took two hours, because a section of subway was closed due to signal issues and the shuttle buses sent were woefully inadequate.

[le calmar]

My commute has been a disaster this week. I arrived at the office 30 min late every morning, my average commuting time has probably been around 1h15. I thought this morning would be fine but the 417 was jammed due to several cars breaking down (the cold probably didn't help). I would not be able to endure this kind of commute on a regular basis.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's the attitude of someone who has a life beyond working.

(or someone who just enjoys sleeping in a little later)

LOL.

I get to work early because my partner, a director in the public sector likes to be at the office for 7am, and we car pool. Maybe secretary Sue gets to show up right at start time but managers and directors almost all work extra hours.

I like getting to work early because I can grab a coffee, take a walk around my complex, get some paperwork done before all the tenants start trickling in for the day.

But if it were up to me, I'd stay in bed till 9am every day. I am most definitely not a morning person

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Merci.

I am actually an early riser. I am normally awake by 6 without needing an alarm clock. I'd love to work 7-3 or something like that but none of the jobs I've ever had lend themselves to that schedule.

I work in the federal public service at an office in Timmins where most people work from 7 to 3. I work from 8 to 4 but we have the choice to start any time between 7 and 8:30 and end 8 hours later. I do enjoy working these hours now that I'm a parent and have a child in school.

As for driving to work. It takes my exactly 8 minutes. We have a lot of snowy days and some very cold ones but it doesn't surprise us like it does to people in Southern Ontario. Bad weather might add 5 minutes to my driving time if the roads haven't been plowed.

Some people I know in Ottawa were freaking out because it's going down to -20 tonight. It's going down to -30 in Timmins and many people will be plugging in their vehicles. I can't do that with ours right now because they are Toyotas and there was a recall on the block heater cords due to fire hazard. So the cords were cut and we are waiting for new ones. Toyotas will normally start without any issues even in the -30s so I'm not worried. I always use my remote starter and warm up the car for 15 minutes.

It's so nice finishing work at 4pm and being home before 4:15 every day. One big advantage about Timmins is that it's a great place to live for work days.

[Acajack]

I could go in early around 7 if I wanted to but stuff always happens at the end of the day at my office so I'd probably almost never be able to leave at 3 and would be stuck until 4 or 5 more often than not.