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  #421  
Old Posted Mar 18, 2011, 11:27 PM
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RTD Denver currently hubs it's regional bus network at it's downtown Denver Market Street Station. The Market Street Station Regional Bus Terminal is several blocks away from Union Station and far too small. Market Street is an underground bus terminal, just as is the new Regional Bus Terminal being built as part of the Denver Union Station (DUS) redevelopment.

When DUS redevelopment fully opens in a few years, Market Street Station will be closed and demolished and then redeveloped into a mix-use project fronting the 16th Street Mall. Thus all regional bus operations will be consolidated into DUS underground Regional Bus Terminal, to make for far easier transfers between Light Rail, Commuter Rail, AmTrak and city buses.

Rick at Denverinfill.com/blog recently posted a comparison of the old underground Market Street, Regional Bus Terminal (at top), with the new DUS Regional Bus Terminal (at bottom). The new DUS bus terminal will have 22 bus bays, including 19 as cut-out bays and 3 as non-cut-out bays. The pedestrian concourse down the middle of the new Regional Bus Terminal, will be sealed off from the bus bays with sliding doors and environmentally controlled to provide year-a-round waiting and transfers from one mode of transit, to another (Light Rail at one end and Commuter Rail at the other). Stairs, elevators and escalators will provide access to each rail platform in the Commuter Rail Terminal, via this underground bus terminal pedestrian concourse, for added convenience.

Here is the comparison:

Source: http://denverinfill.com/blog/



Here is a review of the other renderings, which help visualize how the station will function:

Blue areas indicate vertical access between underground Bus Terminal and At-Grade. Light Rail Terminal is at top; Commuter Rail Terminal is at bottom; underground Bus Terminal is in middle, connecting the two




Side View cross section


Cut-out View
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Last edited by SnyderBock; Mar 19, 2011 at 12:10 AM.
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  #422  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2011, 8:29 PM
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Nice—it reminds me of Chicago’s proposed West Loop Transportation center, only realistic (countdown to thread hijacking in 3…2…).

It’s also good to see the buses getting grade separation—hopefully the terminal will be comfortable enough to help raise the profile of bus travel in Denver. Here Pittsburgh comes to mind. Trains go through a subway, while BRT riders, despite getting a fully grade-separated guideway outside of downtown, have little more than ordinary shelters in the CBD; I’ve seen this blamed as a reason why their busways, despite their otherwise high level of service—don’t get as much patronage as they should. It’s good to see that Denver won’t be making the same mistake.
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  #423  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2011, 9:13 PM
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Yeah, it reminds me a bit of Seattle's bus tunnel too.

Denver of course has the luxury here of a greenfield (or brownfield) that they're building up from scratch.

Digging an underground terminal like this is really inexpensive... you just dig a big hole, build the bus terminal as a concrete box, and fill in the dirt when you're done. It's that easy.

What I wonder is if this is the best location for a transit hub. Obviously it's easy to build here, but much of the employment in DT Denver is south of here. The 16th Mall bus doesn't seem to have enough capacity for the potential demand in the future from people trying to get to jobs downtown from the commuter rail lines (light-rail passengers already having trains direct to downtown).
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  #424  
Old Posted Mar 19, 2011, 10:08 PM
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True, I'd rather it were REALLY like Seattle's bus tunnel, which has five stations through the CBD. But that cost a billion or so in today's dollars. (And will be all-rail in 2016, vs. the current rail/bus combo) Most bus routes, in tunnel or otherwise, go through the CBD.

The single node concept has pluses too, but you're asking most riders to take a multi-stage trip, which is asking a lot.
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  #425  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2011, 1:13 AM
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The capacity of the free 16th Street Mall shuttle bus (which averages over 50,000 riders per weekday), will essentially be doubled when this station opens, with the addition of the free 18th Street circulator bus. Meanwhile, the center of gravity of Denver's CBD has been shifting towards LoDo & Denver Union Station (Coors Field, LoDo boom, Convention center expansion and 14th Street entertainment district growing into LoDo, etc) and will only continue to do so as more high profile projects are built up around the station over the coming decade.

As for DUS being a terminal station and thus a transfer hub, it is true, this will be asking people to get used to the idea of getting around without a car, even if it requires a transfer. But it will also show them that transfers don't have to be hard or inconvenient. So DUS has the potential to help change the culture in Denver. To some degree, this has already been underway for a while now, as the highly successful free 16th Street Mall shuttle has very high ridership and already serves as a transfer bus. People already have embraced taking Light Rail to DUS and transferring onto the 16th Street Mall bus to get around downtown. The 18th/19th Street free circulator will open up even more of downtown to this transfer service.

There has been much discussion on the Mountain West forum, about how to handle future capacity between Denver Union Station on one end of the CDB and the Civic Center Station on the other end of the CBD (~1.1 miles between the two). Streetcars and subway Light Rail are the two options. Streetcar would be an option feasible in the next 10-15 years, whereas subway LRT would be a solution more reasonable in the 25-35 year time-frame. For now, the addition of the free 18th Street circulator should be sufficient.

I think it will work well, but only time will tell. It will be a fairly unique transit configuration for a mid-size United States city.
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Last edited by SnyderBock; Mar 20, 2011 at 1:45 AM.
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  #426  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2011, 5:42 AM
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It's a fine theory, but Denver's mode splits have been middling with the 16th shuttle, and I'd bet transfers are a major reason.
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  #427  
Old Posted Mar 20, 2011, 4:07 PM
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Good points man, I don't have all the answers. Here is the pdf document for the Downtown Distributor, which will supplement the 16th Street shuttle.

Here's is a excerpt from that report:
Quote:
View Full report Here

The free fare, two‐door boarding environment is roughly 70% faster than the fare payment scenario.
Over nine on‐street stops in one direction (at four passengers per stop), this equates to over 1.5 minutes
of time saved per one‐way trip.

While delay reduction is a strong argument for a fare‐free scenario, the other major benefit is increased
ridership.  The fare‐free Mall Shuttle has been highly successful partly because of the ease of being able
to walk on and off of the shuttle without spending money or looking for change. Fare‐free services
appeal to riders who may not normally ride transit, because of the simplicity of riding. Free transit
services within downtown areas may increase ridership by a factor of 50 percent or more, based on
implementation of fare‐free services in other American cities.*

* TCRP Report 95, Transit Pricing and Fares: Traveler Response to Transportation System Changes, 2004.

I recommend reading this article about Denver's FasTracks. It's long, but it's good and fills in a lot of the details. It was recent, just published online this March 10th, 2011. I'll copy/paste the intro and you can click the link to read the body and conclusion...
Quote:
Denver RTD pursues funding options for FasTracks
March 2011
by Angela Cotey, Associate Editor


Officials at the Regional Transportation District of Denver (RTD) had it all planned out in the early 2000s. Develop a regional transit program: Check. Create a program schedule to expedite the projects in the fastest way possible: Check. Obtain voter approval on a sales tax measure to pay for said program: Check.

And for a few years, everything went according to plan. After Denver-area residents approved a four-tenths-cent sales tax measure in November 2004, RTD dove right into its FasTracks program, which calls for adding 119 miles of light- and commuter-rail lines to the agency's current 33-mile light-rail network. The agency began plowing through environmental studies and other pre-construction work to launch construction on the various lines as soon as possible. RTD officials told voters it would bring rail service to the entire metropolitan region by 2017, making FasTracks one of the largest, most ambitious transit construction projects in the United States.

But in 2007, the agency hit its first FasTracks speed bump. Commodity prices for steel, copper and concrete began to rise. By 2008, material costs had soared to astronomical levels. Then the recession hit. The sales tax revenue RTD was counting on to fund its $4.7 billion program plummeted. Agency officials quickly realized they wouldn't be able to deliver the program within the promised timeframe.

Today, RTD's FasTracks program is estimated to cost $6.7 billion, leaving the agency with a $2 billion funding gap. If RTD can't secure another revenue source, the agency won't finish all the FasTracks projects until 2042.

But it's not all doom and gloom in the Mile High City. While agency execs work to resolve the massive program shortfall — likely by asking voters to approve another sales tax hike — RTD project managers have completed environmental work on almost all of the rail corridors and launched construction on several lines. They've also secured a large share of federal dollars, issued a contract securing the largest transit public-private partnership (PPP) in the country...

Continue Reading Here

Here's another good one to read...
Quote:
Denver's Sustainable Future
Posted: March 14, 2011 04:45 PM -- The Huffington Post
by James Mejia, Candidate for Mayor of Denver


Sustainability must be at the heart and conscience of all the city of Denver does -- now and in the future. We can no longer afford the days of wanton consumption without regard for the future. Denver already has a strong culture of sustainability and the state of Colorado is a leader in sustainability technology. The next mayor of Denver must expand on the efforts of Mayor Hickenlooper and Governor Ritter to make Denver a model for sustainability throughout the country.

When I am mayor, the city will initiate a comprehensive review to identify ways to make Denver the national leader in sustainability. I will focus our efforts on alternative transportation, developing green industries and green collar jobs and supporting sustainable urban development. Denver will be a responsible city that improves the environment for future generations...

Continue Reading Here
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Last edited by SnyderBock; Mar 21, 2011 at 3:25 AM.
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  #428  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2011, 3:27 AM
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Lessons to be learned from the DUS Bus Concourse

Lessons to be learned

A) Do not make an underground concourse that is has such an extreme width to length ratio. In the DUS case, approximately 18:1, with the width of 44 feet or approximately 13 meters and a length of 783 feet or approximately 245 meters.

This is particularly important if the to be developed future concourse is not to give the illusion of being a buried tunnel. To my knowledge, very few stations have such a narrow width to length aspect.

B) Do not make an underground concourse so narrow. Remember the DUS design has people boarding and exiting buses on both sides of the 44’ width. This is 3/4 the width of the Market Street Station Concourse which is still wide enough for a food kiosk, a center display for schedule pamphlets, a large ticket bothe, and large circular cement seats. Waiting for a bus with large numbers of people walking immediately behind you while you are in line will not be too confortable, either.

This narrowness virtually eliminates any kiosk style commercial development within the tunnel. Had the tunnel been wider, kiosk newstands, coffee shops, convenience stops, etc., could have been far easier emplaced.

C) The Denver design will have a circulator that will be free, and, will enable passenger to travel around the parameter and exit into the course from at least either end. Remember in future designs to assist those walking the length or near the length of such a long concourse.

The principles are great, but, the execution fair.

Last edited by Wizened Variations; Mar 21, 2011 at 3:39 AM. Reason: Expand discussion
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  #429  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2011, 6:34 AM
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The bus concourse is similar in form to an airport concourse, and the same lessons are applicable. If Denver builds some large monitors/skylights on the roof of the bus concourse (these will pop up in the median of the above street) then the underground spaces can feel much more spacious and light-filled without any additional area.
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  #430  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2011, 3:41 PM
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^Already being done.
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  #431  
Old Posted Mar 21, 2011, 10:46 PM
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From above, you can see the skylights for the Bus Terminal/Pedestrian Concourse:




From inside the Bus Terminal/Pedestrian Concourse, it will look something like this (notice the skylights providing natural light):






Here is Jchurch's most recent RTD Denver FasTracks system map:

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  #432  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2011, 1:39 AM
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Props to Denver for designing what should hopefully turn into a very attractive transfer center, both on the surface and underground. It really does seem a bit like an airline terminal for buses. I like the fact that the buses are screened off, even those aren’t actually platform screen doors à la Brisbane’s bus tunnel (although I assume the buses will all have low enough emissions that air quality shouldn’t be a problem).

Also, Props to JChurch for his Denver transit map—Denver definitely deserves a London-style diagram for its effort. Strange, though, how there isn’t really anything to distinguish light from commuter rail in the lettering system—did RTD not do that for political reasons, to make each region think it’s getting equivalent service?

And of course, Props to SnyderBock for keeping us up to speed on FasTracks.
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  #433  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2011, 11:12 AM
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The average person call both the LRT and EMU, "Light Rail." They say in Denver, "Lets take the Light Rail." They don't say, "Lets take the train," and they don't use RTD's official name for it's rail transportation, "The Ride." It's all and will probably remain, "Light Rail" to them.

As far as service quality, the EMU lines will have equal headways to the LRT lines and actually operate at higher top-end speeds than LRT. LRT's top-end is currently 59 Mph and Denver's EMU lines will have top-ends of 79 Mph. EMU's will also have more seating and better quality seats, plus far more space for luggage and bicycles. So if there is any service quality, if they are not "equivalent" I'd dare to say the EMU corridors will be getting the superior technology. Denver's EMU's are being designed and built, to be their Metro-type, heavy rail system.
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  #434  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2011, 3:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
There has been much discussion on the Mountain West forum, about how to handle future capacity between Denver Union Station on one end of the CDB and the Civic Center Station on the other end of the CBD (~1.1 miles between the two). Streetcars and subway Light Rail are the two options. Streetcar would be an option feasible in the next 10-15 years, whereas subway LRT would be a solution more reasonable in the 25-35 year time-frame. For now, the addition of the free 18th Street circulator should be sufficient.
Streetcar replacing the 16th St Free Shuttle would be awesome. I only see it happening as part of a larger project though where the streetcar would end at a loop where it dead ends at the tracks in front of the light rail station. The streetcar would then travel both ways down 16th with intermittent stops through downtown before turning south at Broadway and heading one-way to Ohio/I-25 before turning north and heading back to downtown via Lincoln connecting back to 16th at Civic Center/United Nations Park. That way you connect the rest of downtown to Union Station as well as the growing areas south of downtown in Golden Triangle, Capitol Hill, Baker and Wash Park West.

Something like this:
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  #435  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2011, 4:14 PM
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I realize the glass buildings are more of an idea of what type of development will go above the bus terminal, but I think it would be nice to see brick facades on the first 3-4 floors to match the style in adjacent Lodo with glass above. It should be an awesome mixed-use redevelopment and will better connect Riverfront Park/Central Platte Valley to Lodo/Downtown.

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  #436  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2011, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by BG918 View Post
...
Good plan. Your southern terminus is the I-25/Broadway Station, which is a secondary hub station for Denver LRT operations, making for an ideal transfer station for the southern terminus of a CBD streetcar line, as you have proposed.

Also downtown, where the line goes from a southeastern direction, to a south direction, that is Civic Center Station at the intersection of Broadway and Colfax (Denver's two most urban street corridors). You can see Colfax, running east from here (through where the map has "Denver, CO" labeled on the map), by the obvious density visible on this map. This will be where Denver's first streetcar will be built.

This would make Civic Center Station, an ideal hub of a Denver streetcar system.
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  #437  
Old Posted Mar 22, 2011, 5:30 PM
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Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
Good plan. Your southern terminus is the I-25/Broadway Station, which is a secondary hub station for Denver LRT operations, making for an ideal transfer station for the southern terminus of a CBD streetcar line, as you have proposed.

Also downtown, where the line goes from a southeastern direction, to a south direction, that is Civic Center Station at the intersection of Broadway and Colfax (Denver's two most urban street corridors). You can see Colfax, running east from here (through where the map has "Denver CO"), be the obvious density visible on this map. This will be where Denver's first streetcar will be built.

This would make Civic Center Station, an ideal hub of a Denver streetcar system.
Yes, such a line down 16th to Broadway/Lincoln would connect well with the Colfax streetcar. Even if it was just proposed it would do wonders for infilling and redevelopment of areas along the line south of downtown. There is a lot of development along that route but still parking lots and rundown properties in some areas and this would spur development, especially denser residential on the west side of Capitol Hill which would have direct streetcar access into downtown via Lincoln.
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  #438  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 6:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SnyderBock View Post
The average person call both the LRT and EMU, "Light Rail." They say in Denver, "Lets take the Light Rail." They don't say, "Lets take the train," and they don't use RTD's official name for it's rail transportation, "The Ride." It's all and will probably remain, "Light Rail" to them.
Interesting—I hadn’t realized that’s how people referred to transit in Denver, but of course I’ve only lived in the Massachusetts and Chicago, where there’s a big distinction between the modes.

Still, aren’t some of the proposed lines supposed to use DMUs and have lower frequencies, or would the frequencies still be high enough to qualify as “light rail” for the average Denverite?
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  #439  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 10:36 AM
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There is one DMU line, the 41-mile NW Corridor line from Denver to Boulder-Longmont. Here, I will post each major new line being built, with it's mode type and frequency of service information...

DMU:
Northwest Rail Corridor (phase 1, under construction)
Vehicle Type: Commuter Rail - Diesel Multiple Unit (DMU)
Length (miles): 41
Stations: 7
2035 Ridership: 17,400
Proposed Frequency of Service: 30 min (peak)/60 min (off-peak)


EMU:
East Corridor (under construction)
Vehicle Type: Commuter Rail - Electric Multiple Unit (EMU)
Length (miles): 22.8
Stations: 6
2030 Ridership: 37,900
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail): 15 min (peak)/15 min (off-peak)

Gold Line Corridor (under construction)
Vehicle Type: Commuter Rail - Electric Multiple Unit (EMU)
Length (miles): 11.2
Stations: 7
2030 Ridership: 20,100
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail): 7.5 min (peak)/15 min (off-peak)

North Metro Corridor
Vehicle Type: Commuter Rail - Electric Multiple Unit (EMU)
Length (miles): 18.7
Stations: 8
2035 Ridership: 24,100
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail): 15 min (peak)/30 min (off-peak)


LRT:
West Corridor (under construction)
Vehicle Type: Light Rail (LRT)
Length (miles): 12.1
Stations: 12
2030 Ridership: 29,700
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail):
5 min (peak)/15 min (off-peak) - Denver to Federal Center
15 min (peak and off-peak) - Federal Center to Jefferson County

I-225 Corridor
Vehicle Type: Light Rail (LRT)
Length (miles): 10.5
Stations: 8
2035 Ridership: 34,200
Proposed Frequency of Service (Rail): 7.5 min (peak)/10 min (off-peak)
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  #440  
Old Posted Mar 23, 2011, 4:20 PM
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Lightbulb

Are there many places in America that have underground bus terminals with as many bus bays as planned in Denver? I can imagine a concentration of diesel fumes where I would never wish to go if there wasn't sufficient ventilation. I have problems with exhausts from just two or three buses idling on an open city street. And the thin air in Denver (high elevation of 5280 feet) would make this even worse....
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