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  #21  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2006, 5:38 PM
cab cab is offline
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All well and good, but if a property owner can demand a payment for lost value from the government, why can't a property owner demand a payment for lost value from another property owner? The Barge business lowers the value of the condo's next door, with sound, smell and sight pollution. His property is directly affecting the value of another. If you want to play this game then allow everyone to play the game. Why should government be the only ones responsible for lost value?
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  #22  
Old Posted Dec 20, 2006, 6:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbanpdx View Post
The real question is weather your property is yours or the government's to control. If it is the latter than you do not own it.
No, the real question is whether you know the difference between "weather" and "whether", or whether you can understand that "than" and "then" are not interchangeable.

I'm looking forward to the day when all of these libertarians finally get so fed up with Portland's progressiveness that they just leave. Houston would love to have them.
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  #23  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 4:31 AM
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Snowden352 Snowden352 is offline
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I'm no lawyer (or even a regular commentator on this forum), but as far as I understand it-- a person has no legal rights to complain of the conditions of a neighboring property if the conditions exist prior to the move-in. It's sort of like moving in next to a cattle ranch and then demanding the cows be removed because they stink. I do think, however, if the property owner changes the conditions of the property after you own the propety, for instance the owner changes his one floor ranch house into a sewage treatment facility one has the right to complain, prevent or receive compensation for the nuissance.

Thus, any changes from Zidell's property that might negatively impact the life of neighbors do require compensation or something. I really don't know for sure, but I'm reasonably positive. For whatever that is worth.
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  #24  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 5:02 AM
PacificNW PacificNW is offline
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I tend to agree with Snowden353. It amazes me when new residents relocate next to a speedway, or airport, and complain about the noise...screw them..
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  #25  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 5:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cab View Post
All well and good, but if a property owner can demand a payment for lost value from the government, why can't a property owner demand a payment for lost value from another property owner? The Barge business lowers the value of the condo's next door, with sound, smell and sight pollution. His property is directly affecting the value of another. If you want to play this game then allow everyone to play the game. Why should government be the only ones responsible for lost value?

The difference is that a property owner might want compensation from the government becauce the government tried to limit what he could with his property. A neighbor can't tell you what you can do on your propery. We have good laws in place regulating certain aspects of usage but those pertain mainly to comercial operations, anyone should be able to use their property any way they see fit unless it directly causes harm to others. (Toxic runoff, continuous industrial noise, damage to other's property, ect.). In the case of Zidell, any neighbors who would have reason to complain willingly moved next to a longstanding marine operation. With the logic being used Zidell could sue the condo developers for blocking THEIR views and creating lots of traffic. If Zidell decided to turn their properety into a landfill than it would only be right for the neighbors to get upset, everything else is a preexisting condition and they will just have to live with it.
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  #26  
Old Posted Dec 21, 2006, 5:05 AM
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No, the real question is whether you know the difference between "weather" and "whether", or whether you can understand that "than" and "then" are not interchangeable.
"here here!"

[har har]
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  #27  
Old Posted Feb 9, 2007, 2:47 AM
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Video

And Fairness for None: The Impact of Measure 37 on Oregonians and Oregon’s Landscape tells the story of Measure 37’s impacts on those most at risk: Oregonians whose livelihood is threatened by the prospect of inappropriate Measure 37 development nearby.

To view the video on You Tube, click here
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  #28  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2007, 10:50 PM
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this might have an interesting impact on M37 claims...

Study: Land-use laws have no impact on property values
Portland Business Journal - 11:03 AM PDT Tuesday, June 5, 2007

A study of land values in Oregon by Oregon State University economists finds no evidence that the state's land-use regulations have caused a generalized reduction in property values.

The study, published this week by economists William Jaeger and Andrew Plantinga, examines the ways in which land-use regulations and Oregon's land-use planning system may affect property values.

Jaeger and Plantinga examined the levels and trends of land values in parts of Oregon over the past 40 years, beginning before Oregon's land-use planning system was in place. They compared land value patterns for restricted and developable lands, and compared patterns in Oregon with patterns for similar areas in Washington state, where land-use planning has only recently been enforced.

The researchers found that:

* Land values (adjusted for inflation) have generally risen since the introduction of Oregon's land-use planning system in 1973, both for rural lands zoned for farm and forest use and for developable lands inside and outside of urban growth boundaries.
* Since 1973, when Oregon's land-use planning system was adopted, the rate of change in land values in Oregon has been about the same as for similar lands in Washington.
* Lands with the most stringent development limits (such as those with exclusive farm or forest use zoning) have increased in value at about the same rate as lands without such restrictions.
* In the Lane County sample, the value of lands outside the Eugene urban growth boundary grew slightly faster than properties inside the urban growth boundary.
* There is no evidence of slower rates of increase overall for the Oregon lands studied compared with lands in the Washington counties studied.

To view the complete report online, go to:

extension.oregonstate.edu/catalog/pdf/sr/sr1077.pdf

http://portland.bizjournals.com/port...ml?t=printable
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  #29  
Old Posted Jun 5, 2007, 11:05 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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Ironically, one of the main talking points of the anti-UGB squad (Jim Karlock, American Dream coalition, etc) is that the UGB raises land values too much - making it unaffordable for people to afford homes!

Can't win either way, huh? I have a feeling they're both incorrect and the UGB has much less effect on land value than does increasing population and wealth in the state.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2007, 12:06 AM
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Does anyone know the latest on Zidells m37 claim? Is he planning to relocate anytime soon?
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  #31  
Old Posted Jun 6, 2007, 2:59 PM
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it's still on voluntary hold and nope, he isn't planning on moving anytime soon.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 3:35 AM
PacificNW PacificNW is offline
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I am curious...are any of you guys going to actively campaign (for or against) M37 revisions placed before the voters this November election?
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  #33  
Old Posted Jun 8, 2007, 5:37 AM
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Fix it or nix it!!

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  #34  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2007, 6:41 AM
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Originally Posted by PacificNW View Post
I am curious...are any of you guys going to actively campaign (for or against) M37 revisions placed before the voters this November election?
I've started meeting with some people and laying out some concepts about it. Nothing concrete at this point, but we are securing some small funding already.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jun 9, 2007, 1:19 PM
PacificNW PacificNW is offline
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Cool...may I ask what position your group is taking? If it is pro revision maybe you can post a site where a person can send a contribution...
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  #36  
Old Posted Jun 11, 2007, 3:26 PM
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just an FYI: (story reposted in M37 thread)

Oregon, prepare for a land-use fight, again
Measure 37 - A party-line vote by lawmakers sends a plan to change the law back to the people
Monday, June 11, 2007
LAURA OPPENHEIMER
The Oregonian

If you think 2007 is just the buildup for next year's presidential election, think again.

Oregonians will vote this November -- for the third time in seven years -- on one of the state's most politically divisive issues: property rights.

The Legislature is sending voters a plan to scale back Measure 37, the three-year-old law that opened the door to rural development. Judging from last week's scrappy finish to negotiations in Salem, the campaign will start quickly.

"It's going to be quite a fight," predicts Ray Wilkeson of the Oregon Forest Industries Council, "just like land-use issues always are in Oregon."

Democrats and environmentalists are promoting the rewrite, which would limit many rural landowners to three homes and make it nearly impossible to build more than 10. Republicans have teamed up with property rights advocates to fight the ballot referral, saying it's an insult to voters who passed Measure 37.

Sound like a scene from the movie "Groundhog Day"? It's just the latest chapter in the battle over Oregon's land-use laws, which are meant to separate city and country.

Courts tossed out a 2000 ballot measure that required governments to pay landowners who have lost the right to develop. In 2004, 61 percent of voters supported the next incarnation: Measure 37. Now, governments must let people use their land however they could have when they bought it -- or pay for lost value.

More than 7,500 applications have been filed, mostly in the countryside surrounding growth hot spots, such as the Portland suburbs, Hood River and Medford. Only a smattering of small developments are under way, but larger projects are a possibility.

Campaigns are sure to put different spins on how much development will materialize and how it would be affected by the Measure 37 rewrite.

Most people haven't followed the details, says public opinion researcher Mike Riley. He polled likely voters this spring on a possible replacement for Measure 37. But he never released the data: Results were inconclusive because so many Oregonians appear to be confused by the issue, Riley says.

Each campaign needs a populist message that connects with everyday Oregonians while cutting through complicated details, Riley says.

"Not much has happened under Measure 37 that they could point to and say 'It's been great' or 'It's been a disaster,' " he says.

Not that people haven't tried. Legislators got an earful of superlatives from hundreds of Oregonians who testified this spring.

Measure 37 claimants pleaded with them to make the law work smoothly, saying they wanted to build homes for relatives or retirement income. But some of their neighbors called for reform, predicting development would snuff out farming or ruin their rural lifestyle.

Legislators came close to a bipartisan compromise. Then talks disintegrated, with each side blaming the other. In the end, Democrats -- who control both houses of the Legislature -- sent their rewrite to voters in a party-line decision. An election date still has to be set, but Nov. 6 is almost a sure thing, says Sen. Floyd Prozanski, D-Eugene, who led the negotiations.

Adversaries have been strategizing for weeks.

Eric Stachon of 1000 Friends of Oregon, a group that promotes land-use planning, says a coalition is in place to campaign for the rewrite. He expects farmers, environmentalists and some politicians to be involved. The message, Stachon says, is simple: "This implements the will of the voters."

The Oregon Farm Bureau, which remained neutral during the last campaign, supports the rewrite, says Don Schellenberg, the bureau's lobbyist.

It's unclear whether timber companies, which provided most of the money to pass Measure 37, will campaign against the ballot referral. Wilkeson, of the forest owners' group, says members opposed the rewrite in "a close call" -- but mostly they want to prevent additional regulations.

David Hunnicutt of Oregonians in Action, the group that wrote Measure 37, says he's not giving away campaign secrets. As he sees it, the pressure is on the other side to prove their rewrite is a good idea.

"Once we remind voters that legislators think they're stupid and are trying to take away their vote," he says, "I think they'll be upset."

Laura Oppenheimer: 503-294-7669; loppenheimer@news.oregonian.com
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/orego...280.xml&coll=7
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Last edited by MarkDaMan; Jun 11, 2007 at 3:36 PM.
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