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  #2141  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2011, 10:39 PM
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^The render was paid for by the architect.If you're making the statement that we shouldn't trust the architect...well...you go ahead and say that. There's really nothing to respond to that kind of ridiculousness.

The description of the building corroborates the new piece. The original description, as quoted in the first page of the thread.
Quote:
The building will rise 1,155 feet, reaching the higher pinnacle at the antennas. It will have five trading floors, three retail floors, nine mechanical floors and 54 floors of offices
Current text:
Quote:
Designed by Richard Rogers, 3 World Trade Center at 175 Greenwich Street will rise 1,170 ft feet above street level. The 80-story building will include 2.8 million square feet of office space spread across 53 floors and five trading floors.
http://www.wtc.com/about/office-tower-3

The elimination of 1 floor elegantly balances out with the fact that the newer, more square floorplates add almost the same amount of space that said floor eliminates.

But I'm sure you just think they went through all the hassle of changing the graphics and the text just cuz, right? Because that's what professionals do, they waste time changing details to make them untrue in order to screw with a few people.
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  #2142  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2011, 11:21 PM
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  #2143  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2011, 4:17 AM
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^ That is the best option.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STR View Post
^That render is actually my main point of evidence. Once you subtract the floors that are absent in that render, you're forced to the same conclusion I was. Shame too. I was actually hoping it would come out to 1170 parapet.

I'm still not on that bandwagon. As I've said, you may very well be right. However, I just don't think that you are, and will await specifics before jumping to that conclusion. I've compared official renderings before (below) which show that the spire heights haven't changed much. They're all just renderings, and may not mean anything at all when it comes to the actual numbers.






Anyway, I've officially decided that I like the base of the newer version better than the last...





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  #2144  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2011, 4:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Anyway, I've officially decided that I like the base of the newer version better than the last...
Agreed, at least based on these renders...I honestly like this building better without the X-braces. They were interesting but I thought they clashed greatly with the rest of the buildings on site. If it had been built elsewhere in Lower Manhattan it would have had much more of an impact, but next to all those perfectly pristine glass curtains, it stuck out like a sore thumb. That's just my personal taste.
     
     
  #2145  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2011, 4:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
I'm still not on that bandwagon. As I've said, you may very well be right. However, I just don't think that you are, and will await specifics before jumping to that conclusion. I've compared official renderings before (below) which show that the spire heights haven't changed much. They're all just renderings, and may not mean anything at all when it comes to the actual numbers.[/img]
I noticed that too. It looks like the Silverstein people (dBox) pretty much did a quick delete-the-X's kind of deal without altering the floor layout. If you look at the first office floor, it's the only one that's dark, because they just photoshopped over the old render. It also displays (I think I counted right) 56 office floors, which doesn't gel with what we know about the building. The Rogers people (Macarie) built a completely new (in fact, several new models, including one showing a big screen covering the church st side) model that jives with what's put in text. Since the architect was actually using those renders and models to work on the design, it should be the most accurate out there on this building.

Like I said from the beginning, I'd love to see a real, alternative breakdown with another conclusion. Hell, I render a test to see if it works/how it looks. Anyone that wants to put in a well thought out, logical idea, let me know via PM.
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  #2146  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2011, 8:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYguy View Post
Anyway, I've officially decided that I like the base of the newer version better than the last...
I find the new base very reminiscent of 80's architecture. Not really my cup of tea. I would have much preferred the older one, but I'm holding my breath for the base to complete in actuality.
     
     
  #2147  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 12:27 AM
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Yeah, you really don't know what the rebuilding is about. It's not about if something doesn't fit your taste, don't build it. New York lost 11msf of office space a decade ago. This tower will be just a portion of that, but it must be rebuilt. Besides, I doubt just throwing a "mall" in between the towers would look any better or any more suited for the site and Manhattan in general.
Yeah, I obviously know that, You didn't honestly think that I would expect them to halt everything because I didn't like the design change did you? And I remember there being a plan in the past to build a mall in between them and put tower 2 and 3 on hold until the economy recovered or whatever, thats why I mentioned the mall.

Before I couldn't wait until this thing was built, now I couldn't care less. And the hight reduction is just salt in the wounds.
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  #2148  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 5:27 AM
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Originally Posted by The North One View Post
Before I couldn't wait until this thing was built, now I couldn't care less. And the hight reduction is just salt in the wounds.
It's obvious that you don't care, which is why I made the remark. The rebuilding isn't just about putting up pretty towers for people to look at. Sure, there was a public mandate for "restoring" the skyline, but there are real issues of why these buildings are being rebuilt, and to say you don't care just shows a lack of appreciation for those issues.
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  #2149  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 2:20 PM
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^Agreed, 13.4 million sq ft were lost, all towers need to be built in order to replace that space with 14 million square feet of Class-A.
     
     
  #2150  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 8:12 PM
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I hate the thought of any height reduction, but it seems this one is minor. As for the design change... it's been commented quite a bit that while the original design was good in and of itself, it seemed too busy to harmonize well with the other towers.

I think even the stripped down design is still good, and the problem of harmony has been resolved.
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  #2151  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 9:26 PM
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People really need to stop acting like this height reduction is for real, it is possible it could be but not probable. It would absolutely destroy their "Spiral effect" that they talk so much of. I'm waiting on evidence before jumping to conclusions.
     
     
  #2152  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 9:58 PM
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Just enjoy the view.

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  #2153  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Zapatan View Post
People really need to stop acting like this height reduction is for real, it is possible it could be but not probable. It would absolutely destroy their "Spiral effect" that they talk so much of. I'm waiting on evidence before jumping to conclusions.
The spiral is still there, and I think it's better now; more balance. Now there's about 200 feet between 3/4 AND 2/3, before jumping 400 to 1's spire. It looks more even now, in my opinion.
     
     
  #2154  
Old Posted Jul 29, 2011, 11:21 PM
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why is there this overwhelming desire for a spiral effect? better yet, why does there have to be all of this thought and meaning behind every single goddam aspect of this site? is it such a huge surprise that this architectural vision that completely disregards many practical financial issues got bogged down by reality...?
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  #2155  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 2:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChicagoSpire2000 View Post
The spiral is still there, and I think it's better now; more balance. Now there's about 200 feet between 3/4 AND 2/3, before jumping 400 to 1's spire. It looks more even now, in my opinion.

Tower 1 and 2 are similar in height while towers 3 and 4 are also similar in height (if STR is correct), with nearly 300 feet between tower 2 and 3, but well less than 100 between 2 and 1 and 3 and 4... It frankly would look ridiculous, They are so adamant about evoking the Statue of Liberty yet would supposedly build tower 3 small enough so you could hardly see it over 4 from that angle... I'm sorry but this height reduction thing sounds a little fishy and if it is true than that's a damn, damn shame
     
     
  #2156  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 2:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian.odonnell20 View Post
why is there this overwhelming desire for a spiral effect? better yet, why does there have to be all of this thought and meaning behind every single goddam aspect of this site? is it such a huge surprise that this architectural vision that completely disregards many practical financial issues got bogged down by reality...?
I never said there should be but the site planners still want to stick to Libeskinds original plan.
     
     
  #2157  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 2:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian.odonnell20 View Post
why is there this overwhelming desire for a spiral effect? better yet, why does there have to be all of this thought and meaning behind every single goddam aspect of this site? is it such a huge surprise that this architectural vision that completely disregards many practical financial issues got bogged down by reality...?
Precisely what got bogged down? In and of itself, the much-discussed spiral effect really doesn't factor in comparison to the actual consideration of what to build. OTOH, I can see a problem vis a vis the actual extrapolation of a vision to its real-time construction and the tons of feasibility issues that surely go with it.

Indeed, many truly grand and innovative concepts have withered on their vines owing to a variety of local and national issues and the person(s) who decide(s) them. Too often, as we all know, many a proposal's death knell was tolled as the result of a planning/city council's vote that critics thereof could and did have a field day taking apart. NIMBYism is equally guilty as charged.

But my post's overall theme revolves around the fact that thousands of people had their lives taken from them in many horrible ways by a foreign enemy that the President of our country swears at every inauguration ceremony to defend against (BTW, never mind that W. was in office at the time. Would Mr. Gore have been able to prevent the same thing had the Florida clusterfutz gone his way?).

The psychologically harrowing nature of the attack on our native soil had to be answered by an immediate and tangible healing process as well as one from within. By glaringly obvious necessity, replacement of that which was lost was non-negotiable ("with bigger size and more security than ever before", as the rallying cry went); and whether we like it or not, symbolism is the hardwired driving force in our species that invariably realizes this goal.

None of the plans that ever came out were released without consideration of the myriad of human-generated, real-world circumstances that everyone knew would invariably maneuver themselves into play ...and we all know about these. And it's a pretty good cinch that neither the initial Libeskind design nor the tyrannically oversized Lord Foster entry were exactly tantamount to divinely etched tablets that a pair of clueless narcissists stood on a mountaintop wielding like the Stanley Cup after a 7th game shootout and told Bloomberg at al. to build or else.

On the contrary, both "starchitects" simply attempted to perform the only thing they were called upon to do: create a monument that in their eyes inspires to betterment and does so in a way that bestirs the viewer to turn that inspiration to acts that benefit fellow man and society and blah blah blah... But as first-time contributors to the New York City sociopolitical environment, neither Mr. Libeskind nor Lord Foster could legitimately have been expected to foresee the ultimate real-world realities that even today continue to shape their original plans.

And is all this not also true with the majority of grand-scale projects anywhere in the world, and often for reasons of lesser gravity? How many cities with, for instance, successful Olympic bids had majestic plans--not necessarily vertical in scope, mind you--cut down to size or altogether annihilated because of simple reality? But just the same, the human propensity to attach symbolic meaning to human events obtained.

Apropos of Nine Eleven, symbolism is the most appropriate catalyst for long-term reclamation, both on the corporate and personal scale. The singularly unique experiences that this event insinuated upon us all that day should remain as object lessons in how the gamut of human states of mind and basic human drives (i.e. economic and financial stability) in combination can practically work miracles.

Last edited by JayPro; Jul 30, 2011 at 3:17 AM. Reason: No more editing. I swear. ;)
     
     
  #2158  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 3:33 AM
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Well thats the end of that....


Quote:
UBS Is Said to End Negotiations on Moving to New York’s World Trade Center
By David M. Levitt and Christine Harper - Jul 29, 2011 6:39 PM ET

UBS AG (UBSN), Switzerland’s biggest lender, is no longer in negotiations to lease space at lower Manhattan’s World Trade Center, according to a person with knowledge of the situation.
The company called off talks yesterday, said the person, who asked not to be named because the discussions were private. UBS had been considering a plan to move the staff of its U.S. investment bank unit from Stamford, Connecticut, to the site, a person with direct knowledge of the matter said in June.
“UBS has been conducting a review of its real estate requirements in the tri-state area,” the Zurich-based bank said in an e-mailed statement today. “Part of this review involved discussions with World Trade Center management in downtown Manhattan. These discussions have been productive, but we are focused on Midtown alternatives at the present time.”
The decision takes away a leading candidate to anchor 3 World Trade Center, one of three office towers planned by developer Larry Silverstein along the eastern side of the 16- acre (6-hectare) trade center site. It was prompted in part by the bank’s 49 percent drop in second-quarter net income, led by a slump in investment-bank earnings, two people familiar with the situation said.
Midtown Sites
The Midtown options don’t involve any other skyscraper developments, eliminating Related Co.’s Hudson Yards site, Brookfield Properties Corp. (BPO)’s Manhattan West and Vornado Realty Trust (VNO)’s Hotel Pennsylvania sites, said the people, who declined to be identified because the talks are private.
Christiaan Brakman, a UBS spokesman based in New York, declined to comment beyond the statement.
The called-off discussions were reported by Reuters earlier today.
UBS’s withdrawal won’t negatively affect the outlook for leasing Trade Center offices, said Bud Perrone, a Silverstein spokesman.
“It’s unfortunate that UBS has been forced to re-evaluate its real estate strategy,” Perrone said in an e-mailed statement. “They are a great company and a big factor in the city’s economy.”
UBS leases more than 3 million square feet of office space for various operations in the New York, New Jersey and Connecticut region, Torie von Alt, a spokeswoman, said in June.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-0...de-center.html
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  #2159  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 3:36 AM
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I love how vague that article is by saying according to a person with knowledge of the situation.

Yeah, I have my sources too... who have heard things about stuff from somebody that knows people that know even more things about certain subjects that may or may not be pertinent to the subject at hand... Apparently the person who wrote that article didn't learn much in journalism school but when you word the beginning of an article like that, it kinda loses its credibility.

Anyways, if thats true, thats not good news.
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  #2160  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2011, 4:15 AM
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They really just need to postpone the construction of these buildings for a while...
     
     
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