Gay Life in Canadian Cities

[Chadillaccc]

Good God. *face palm at everyone*

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by halifaxboyns

That said, Halifax one year had an estimate as high as 100,000 (as I recall) because there was a downtown concert, the parade and some other event. I found that to be interesting, considering the City is about 420K in population - they were basically saying almost 25% of the population came out to participate. I don't know if that's totally accurate...

Sounds like they were over-generously counting people in the general vicinity as "attending" just because they were nearby. As you say, pretty standard for this kind of thing, but an artificial inflation.

100,000 sounds a bit ridiculous (like Toronto's one million, when you think of it) but 60,000 doesn't seem outrageous. The catchment area for an event like this would extend across a good swath of the Maritimes, and apparently people often come up from Maine as well, plus tourists in town for whatever reason. In any case, a big event for the city's size.

Aside: I was once at Edmonton's gay pride parade, and as the entire procession of cavorting drag queens and dancers and waving dignitaries headed eastbound on Jasper Avenue, they were trailed by a single decrepit old guy in a motorized wheelchair with a Canadian flag and an anti-gay placard propped up in his little basket. The entire crowd booed him as he motored his way, alone and scowling, up the street. He was the entirety of the anti-gay protest, and the parade participants laughed him off, and the crowd heckled him. (He was so pathetic I felt sorry for him.)

So: That's "conservative" Alberta for you.

[dreambrother808]

No one's saying that Alberta is rural Texas or Saudi Arabia. I'm just pointing out my own experience that it is less comfortable and accepting to varying degrees when it comes to these issues. For example, the obviously lesbian woman I worked with, who had been at the same job for 15 or more years but had never come out or discussed anything remotely related to her sexuality EVER. This was in the Garneau area, the most liberal riding in the entire province. Read the newspapers in Edmonton, listen to conversations between average people, the conservative tendencies are palpable, while not necessarily explicitly anti-gay. Having moved there from Vancouver, the culture shock was quite profound, and so anyone trying to tell me that there is no difference is hiding something.

Yes, Alberta is more explicitly and unabashedly fiscally conservative, but that is not entirely unbundled from other conservative elements. These elements do vary in their bundling from region to region though. I grew up in Thunder Bay, which is more homophobic in my opinion than Edmonton, but far less politically conservative.

[ciudad_del_norte]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

No one's saying that Alberta is rural Texas or Saudi Arabia. I'm just pointing out my own experience that it is less comfortable and accepting to varying degrees when it comes to these issues. For example, the obviously lesbian woman I worked with, who had been at the same job for 15 or more years but had never come out or discussed anything remotely related to her sexuality EVER. This was in the Garneau area, the most liberal riding in the entire province. Read the newspapers in Edmonton, listen to conversations between average people, the conservative tendencies are palpable, while not necessarily explicitly anti-gay. Having moved there from Vancouver, the culture shock was quite profound, and so anyone trying to tell me that there is no difference is hiding something.

Yes, Alberta is more explicitly and unabashedly fiscally conservative, but that is not entirely unbundled from other conservative elements. These elements do vary in their bundling from region to region though. I grew up in Thunder Bay, which is more homophobic in my opinion than Edmonton, but far less politically conservative.

I do think you have a point in that I don't really buy the whole "we are only fiscally conservative, but not socially argument". It works to a degree, but fiscal conservative policies often have social links that need to be acknowledged.

That being said...I find most of the "stories" of people who spent time in Alberta as self-fulfilling prophecies. People come here with an idea of what to expect and just tend to focus in and notice the things that confirm that idea. I don't expect many people will agree that what they are seeing is based on their mind's desire to upkeep their stereotypes, but I know I've been guilty of it when I travel. Something I probably wouldn't have noticed in Edmonton becomes somehow noteworthy and representative in Halifax. Watching communication struggles in Quebec is "a thing" yet I saw a Somali couple at the bank a few weeks ago in DT Edmonton that were completely unable to communicate to the teller what they wanted.

I'm well aware that Alberta has some annoying conservative tendencies. But it also seems many from the ever wonderful cities like to exagerrate it because it makes them feel better about their enlightenment. But that's just my opinion and I will now return to not being involved in this.

[Chadillaccc]

I agree with you completely Ciudad. I had a horrendous view of Alberta before moving here, as I had never been here before, and I'm a gay man so all I ever heard in places like Vancouver were, when a Vancouverite met a Calgarian it was "Oh you're from Calgary? I'm sorry." Or some stupid ignorant bullshit like that, but it did effect my outlook. When I moved here, I expected the worst, and it really was the worst for the first 6 months. I can honestly say I had never been more depressed or hopeless in my life. Not because of homophobia in the general community, but because of both my outlook at the time, and because of the general attitude of the gay community here (the people I met when I first moved here were really shitty people). However, when I started to realize that my perceptions were false, and that the city is actually awesome, everything changed for me. Now I have some of the best friends I've ever had, by far the best and most healthy relationship I've ever had, and am in the best mental space I've been in since I was a teenager. As I've said(or alluded to?) before, perception is one thing... usually based on outdated preconcepts, but the reality on the ground is entirely different if you don't seek out the unhealthy aspects. It's 2014, no Canadian city is "conservative".

[Xelebes]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

when a Vancouverite met a Calgarian it was "Oh you're from Calgary? I'm sorry." Or some stupid ignorant bullshit like that,

Um, dude, that's the joke.

Oh you're from London? I'm sorry.

Oh you're from New York? I'm so sorry to hear that!

[Chadillaccc]

No it's not. They didn't laugh afterwards, it was a direct condescension. Usually if people say something like that, afterwards they do a little "hehe" or something, to show they're joking. There was always a lot of talk in Vancouver about how shitty Calgary was/is, every time the city was mentioned from what I recall having lived their for 2 years.

[ue]

^ The Vancouverite smugness* towards Alberta isn't just relegated to LGBT rights. Many seem to consider this province inferior in every way. I find it more bothersome than ignorance from points eastward because Vancouverites are more likely to have actually been here to know better than someone from Sudbury or Rimouski.

*Note: Not every Vancouverite is like this vis a vis Alberta.

[niwell]

They hate Toronto even more, so don't put too much stock in it. Friends who have lived here for several years now still complain bitterly about how things aren't the same as Vancouver. And like, how there aren't enough house parties and drum circles or whatever.

(this is a sweeping generalization I am poking fun at as well)

[240glt]

^^ That's funny. Reminds me of the smugness and ignorance that I experienced from several of my fellow Calgarians when they found out that I was moving to Edmonton.

And no it wasn't a joke. They were being serious jerks. So, really that type of attitude exists everywhere

[Chadillaccc]

DEFINITELY! The ignorance of many (most?) long-time Calgarians against Edmonton is not only infuriating, but it is so ingrained into their psyche that no matter how much logic I use to refute their bullshit attitude, nothing helps! I personally love Edmonton.

Originally Posted by niwell

They hate Toronto even more, so don't put too much stock in it. Friends who have lived here for several years now still complain bitterly about how things aren't the same as Vancouver. And like, how there aren't enough house parties and drum circles or whatever.

(this is a sweeping generalization I am poking fun at as well)

LMAO! Drum circles! I love it

[ue]

^ Oh I agree. In my experience, the Calgary-Edmonton rivalry is usually a bit more of a friendly one. Obviously there are still many in both cities woefully ignorant of the other that still like to make sweeping generalizations. BC (Lower Mainland and the Island in particular) smugness is by far the worst I've seen towards Edmonton/Alberta IMO. Worse than the oft purported Eastern smugness.

Perhaps it would be different if I lived in Calgary, but most of my encounters with Calgarians have been friendly. Though that could easily just be a facade and I've seen numerous times where the Calgary-Edmonton thing gets incredibly childish, especially on forums like this.

Originally Posted by niwell

They hate Toronto even more, so don't put too much stock in it. Friends who have lived here for several years now still complain bitterly about how things aren't the same as Vancouver. And like, how there aren't enough house parties and drum circles or whatever.

(this is a sweeping generalization I am poking fun at as well)

lol. So why did these people leave Vancouver, then?

[niwell]

Originally Posted by ue

lol. So why did these people leave Vancouver, then?

I think it had something to do with jobs and being able to afford things.... these are questions best not to be asked though!

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

100,000 sounds a bit ridiculous (like Toronto's one million, when you think of it) but 60,000 doesn't seem outrageous. The catchment area for an event like this would extend across a good swath of the Maritimes, and apparently people often come up from Maine as well, plus tourists in town for whatever reason. In any case, a big event for the city's size.

In the context of Canada, Halifax is like a small city in some ways and a medium-sized city in other ways. This is one of the ways it's more like a medium-sized city.

Gottingen Street has also taken on a "gay village" feel over the past 15 years or so.

[vid]

Originally Posted by Xelebes

Um, dude, that's the joke.

Oh you're from London? I'm sorry.

Oh you're from New York? I'm so sorry to hear that!

When people tell my they're going to Lakehead University, I ask them what their first choice was.

It's usually Wilfred Laurier.

[dreambrother808]

Originally Posted by niwell

I think it had something to do with jobs and being able to afford things.... these are questions best not to be asked though!

That is the only reason friends of mine have moved there. This is not exactly a secret.

[ssiguy]

I think the numbers of gay prides tend to be WAY overblown.

I went to a gay pride in Vancouver once in the 90s and I am "proud" to say that I haven't been to one since. I find them boring and vulgar and they reinforce ever single stereotype out there that gays are shallow, narcisistic , sex obsessed, coarse, flighty, and that all lesbians are butch, rude, and unappealing. The drag queen and muscle boys are some how to be admired and rules about nudity seem to be ignored by the city so as not to be seen as "homophobic".

Also this use of the word "queer" turns most people in the general population off as it insinuates that homosexuals are indeed oddities and should not be viewed as part of society in general. The term queer {and I don't know one man whom calls himself that} came out of the early 90s as a feminist movement and not a gay one. The gay community "leaders" {like they were ever elected to represent gay people in general} somehow find it astonishing when they call themselves queer and then the general population views them as not part of "normal" society.

Pride parades reinforce every stereotype out there and the sooner they fall out of fashion the better. They began as a political movement and have turned into nothing more than a tasteless parade.

[Boris2k7]

Originally Posted by Chadillaccc

DEFINITELY! The ignorance of many (most?) long-time Calgarians against Edmonton is not only infuriating, but it is so ingrained into their psyche that no matter how much logic I use to refute their bullshit attitude, nothing helps! I personally love Edmonton.

I've lived in Calgary for twenty years (this July) and I have *very little* patience for this shit.

[ue]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

That is the only reason friends of mine have moved there. This is not exactly a secret.

Moving for jobs. That is so un-Vancouver .

[eemy]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I think the numbers of gay prides tend to be WAY overblown.

I went to a gay pride in Vancouver once in the 90s and I am "proud" to say that I haven't been to one since. I find them boring and vulgar and they reinforce ever single stereotype out there that gays are shallow, narcisistic , sex obsessed, coarse, flighty, and that all lesbians are butch, rude, and unappealing. The drag queen and muscle boys are some how to be admired and rules about nudity seem to be ignored by the city so as not to be seen as "homophobic".

Also this use of the word "queer" turns most people in the general population off as it insinuates that homosexuals are indeed oddities and should not be viewed as part of society in general. The term queer {and I don't know one man whom calls himself that} came out of the early 90s as a feminist movement and not a gay one. The gay community "leaders" {like they were ever elected to represent gay people in general} somehow find it astonishing when they call themselves queer and then the general population views them as not part of "normal" society.

Pride parades reinforce every stereotype out there and the sooner they fall out of fashion the better. They began as a political movement and have turned into nothing more than a tasteless parade.

Clearly pride has changed a lot since you went. The times I have gone, there were the usual dancing men in speedos and leather and drag queens and what not, but by far most participants were wearing jeans and t-shirts and just smiling and waving.