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  #15581  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 1:31 PM
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You'll never get the idea of turning an industrial facility into residential past Pilseños. Industrial means you can pretend jobs will return. Residential means yuppies will come and rents will go up.
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  #15582  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 1:48 PM
Nowhereman1280 Nowhereman1280 is offline
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The thing is though, Pilsen Alliance (the anti-development group for Pilsen) really hates Alderman Danny Solis, whom is viewed to be very pro development by them. Little Village (South Lawndale) is too far from any rapid transit to really be pressured into full gentrification, but North Lawndale for sure is poised for investment; the new Police Station on Ogden has already spured investment.

I think the Pilsen wild card will be what happens to Fisk Generating Station when it goes offline next year. I would love to see a urban high rise cluster with riverfront amenities (perhaps a marina). It could be connected to the Halsted Orange Line via a elevtaed pedestrian pathway or people mover; of course that would be too ambitious for anyone to attempt, or is it.
Well the anti development groups in Pilsen are losing and losing badly. The problem with Fisk is that the site is likely heavily contaminated and might never be suitable for residential uses.

Also, I think we have different definitions of Little Village and North Lawndale. I'm pretty certain that everything South of Douglas Park and the Pink Line is typically considered Little Village. This area has great transit access with both the Pink Line and Metra serving the area. So yeah, South of 26th Street you don't have great access to transit, but the corridor along Cermak has great access. Guess it depends if you view Cermak or 26th as "mainstreet" of LV.

Finally, I'll come right out and say it, hispanic areas tend to gentrify quicker because white people simply are not as afraid of Mexicans as they are of Blacks. So regardless of the "community groups" against gentrification, the waves of white people are much more likely to break on the beaches of a hispanic neighborhood. It's much easier to develop Humbolt Park, Logan Square, or Pilsen than it is to crack Bronzeville or Garfield Park.
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  #15583  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 3:27 PM
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Absolutely. I am definitely one who believes Chicago is not preserving enough of its industrial heritage. Germany does a really good job of transforming industrial wastelands into new attractions. I'm pretty sure much of the old Fisk building facade from 1903 doesn't exist any more, but some elements like the smoke stack can surely stay and be transformed into something else. An observation tower with wind turbines perhaps? Or leave it as is and allow for artists to turn it into a 300+ foot tall mural; I stumbled upon that idea after watching the Serria Club folks scale the thing and paint "quit coal" in a vertical alignment. The plant sits on a huge property and even has a private slip on the south branch. Oh, the possibilities...

Of course the issue of the land being in a PMD would come up for non-industrial re-use, but it wouldn't be the first time land was carved out of a PMD, as it happened with Southworks after Solo Cup decided to stay put near Ford City.
Yea, its sad to see so much industrial stuff come down, especially ironic when you consider that many people pay premiums to live/work in quirky spaces (lofts, etc). As far as powerplants go, its definitely possible to repurpose them if you get creative. Power House High is a good example of that:


http://blogs.wttw.com/jayschicago/fi...owerhouse2.jpg

Theres also the Seaholm Power Plant in Austin which has been turned into a concert/event venue


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5109/5...0b602c08_b.jpg


http://marysledd.com/wp-content/uplo...owerPlant2.jpg
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  #15584  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 4:23 PM
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Roosevelt University Goodman Center

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  #15585  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 4:26 PM
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Burberry

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  #15586  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 5:10 PM
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From Friday 4/27

UNO Charter School on Natchez - Looking south down Natchez



From the architects website for a refresher:


http://www.urbanworksarchitecture.co...civic_11.html#

BTW, This was my first time in this immediate neighborhood and it was an olfactory dream. There must be an enormous churro factor right next door or something. Just saying, it would distract me if I were a student.
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  #15587  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 7:43 PM
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^^^
I don't want to get into an UNO debate again, so I will only comment on the architecture. Their buildings remind me if something from Dubai. The design makes no sense. It is showy, but that's about it. I don't understand why there is a giant curtain wall that reaches twenty feet high next to that shrimpy little elongation to the right. The balance is all off imo. And as much as I like the boxed in look of the concrete band that runs over and down on the right side of the building, it would have looked much better if the concrete had been left bare to balance the sensuality of the wood. Moreover, some bare concrete would have made the place feel more connected to its neighborhood (look at the first pic). This school isn't going into a grassy field (as the rendering implies) and should relate to its urban environment instead of trying to overpower it. I know people will tell me that they ignored the environment so that this looks like a beacon, but it will instead serve as a reminder of how bleak the design of the surrounding area is and how hubristic this design looks in comparison. And as for that green roof spilling over the top: this is not going into a "natural" environment and a lush forest roof does not serve to make this building look at all correct in its environment. Instead, it will stick out. Though, maybe if the plantings surrounding the building are done well (which I imagine they will be) this bit might turn out well, especially as a way to cut down on the starkness of that glass wall against the cold concrete that surrounds the neighborhood (especially when the room is empty).
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  #15588  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 7:50 PM
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^^^ That vacant lot isn't going to be there forever and the portion of the lot that the school is being built on will, in fact, be a nice grassy lot. Finally it's right across the street from a row of bungalows, concrete wastelands are only 1/2 the context here while the bungalow belt is the other half. You tell me which one is more permanent and should be referenced.

Finally, I don't claim to know the reasoning behind this design, but I think part of the disproportion you are seeing is simply an extreme perspective in this rendering.
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  #15589  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 7:51 PM
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My comment on the Goodman Center moved to keep the Roosevelt Building thread on topic

I'm excited for new construction (as always) but I can't help feeling that congress should be a major thoroughfare with skyscrapers on either side, not a delineation between skyscrapers and a Dearborn Park wasteland. In Burnham's plan, this was supposed to be the central street of Chicago land. Imagone how beautiful it would be for tourists to come in via the Kennedy, pass under the Post office, then the BOT building, then be on this long and wide boulevard, surrounded by skyscrapers that dead ends with Michigan, then Buckingham fountain and then the lake. Rant over...

Also, the Goodman Field House building reminds me of a poorly done knock off of Wang Shu's Ningbo Historic Museum.

THe Goodman center via Roosevelt's website:


Wang Shu's Ningbo Historic Museum via Arch Daily:


Maybe its all in my head...
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  #15590  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 7:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Nowhereman1280 View Post
^^^ That vacant lot isn't going to be there forever and the portion of the lot that the school is being built on will, in fact, be a nice grassy lot. Finally it's right across the street from a row of bungalows, concrete wastelands are only 1/2 the context here while the bungalow belt is the other half. You tell me which one is more permanent and should be referenced.

Finally, I don't claim to know the reasoning behind this design, but I think part of the disproportion you are seeing is simply an extreme perspective in this rendering.
The bungalow belt is an important piece that I didn't see. Thanks for the info, NWM. Its weird that now I am the critical one...

Also, I still think that contextualism would have been a nice move for this building. It reminds me of the debate that surrounds much of Gehry's work. On the one hand, it is extraordinarily attention grabbing, but as one professor of theory in city planning put his opinion to me recently: "Gehry is only contextual if he designs the entire region" ie, he doesn;t understand contextualism. I think that some of Gehry's early designs are very contextual and I think the Ike Memorial is contextual, but much of what he does nowadays is plopping a deconstructivist shiny object where it does not belong. This building could have responded in scale and form to the bungalows and/ or concrete that surrounds it, but instead looks silly trying to be futurist. To be fair, this one isn't as outlandish as many of the other UNO schools I've seen.
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  #15591  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 8:50 PM
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Fourth Presbyterian Church addition



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  #15592  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 9:00 PM
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  #15593  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 10:41 PM
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Yea, its sad to see so much industrial stuff come down, especially ironic when you consider that many people pay premiums to live/work in quirky spaces (lofts, etc). As far as powerplants go, its definitely possible to repurpose them if you get creative. Power House High is a good example of that:


http://blogs.wttw.com/jayschicago/fi...owerhouse2.jpg

Theres also the Seaholm Power Plant in Austin which has been turned into a concert/event venue


http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5109/5...0b602c08_b.jpg


http://marysledd.com/wp-content/uplo...owerPlant2.jpg
Many of the century old powerhouses are some of the most beautiful spaces ever constructed IMO. I find it tragic when they are left abandoned and torn down. I like the conversion into a music venue that you posted.





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  #15594  
Old Posted Apr 30, 2012, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by george View Post
4-29
Fourth Presbyterian Church addition



**EDIT: WRONG TOWER, see ardecila's post below **

This looks pretty good and really quite sleek, but I'm still mad that the NIMBYs killed the awesome canyon ranch tower that was proposed. That would have been a great asset to Chicago's hotel stock and fledgling architectural portfolio coming out of the last boom (I would have given that tower an A- to the booms averge of C+). A destination hotel such as that might have pulled tourists (from around the Midwest mostly) who otherwise might not have come to the city.

Here are some pics to get those who don't remember as angry as I am (Sourced from SSC):



The curvature of the building worked quite elegantly to deal with the constraints of the space and leave the church some breathing room:


This one shows its impact on the skyline:


**EDIT: WRONG TOWER, see ardecila's post below **

Quote:
Originally Posted by george View Post
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My word this is taking forever. I WANT MY CHIANTI FRAP WITH A DOUBLE SHOT AND I WANT IT NOW!!!
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Last edited by ChiPhi; May 1, 2012 at 12:24 AM.
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  #15595  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 12:14 AM
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^^ You're confusing your churches. Fourth Presbyterian had a tower proposal that encountered substantial community opposition and was tabled.

The round Canyon Ranch tower would have gone behind St. James Cathedral, which is several blocks away and Episcopal. Canyon Ranch was killed by the economy, not NIMBYs.

Also: chianti frap? Maybe with a fava bean scone on the side?
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  #15596  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
^^ You're confusing your churches. Fourth Presbyterian had a tower proposal that encountered substantial community opposition and was tabled.

The round Canyon Ranch tower would have gone behind St. James Cathedral, which is several blocks away and Episcopal. Canyon Ranch was killed by the economy, not NIMBYs.
Thanks so much, sorry about that. I think I'll edit my original post. Were renderings of this tower proposal ever made public?
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  #15597  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 1:27 AM
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West loop target


Staybridge


K-Station

Last edited by J_M_Tungsten; May 1, 2012 at 1:38 AM.
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  #15598  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 1:50 AM
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^ That K station tower is going to be very visually prominent heading north on the Kennedy.

Hey everybody, give yourselves a round of applause. KICK ASS photo updates today!
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  #15599  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 2:07 AM
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^^^
Two great points, UP. Tungsten's shot of K-stuff there makes me much more excited for this tower to get built.

As for Staybridge, it is supposed to reopen as super-exclusive 4-5 star boutique hotel if I'm not mistaken. The design always seemed to merit something better than a Staybridge Suites imo, but the location seems to be lacking for a 4-5 star hotel. It is too far from the offices of River North or the loop (and boutique hotels tend to be shunned by business travellers anyways) and too far from the Mag Mile. The only really close thing to see would be the 50th anniversary Mcdonald's, and I can't imagine many people coming to Chicago for that POS.
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  #15600  
Old Posted May 1, 2012, 7:38 AM
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Well the anti development groups in Pilsen are losing and losing badly. The problem with Fisk is that the site is likely heavily contaminated and might never be suitable for residential uses.

Also, I think we have different definitions of Little Village and North Lawndale. I'm pretty certain that everything South of Douglas Park and the Pink Line is typically considered Little Village. This area has great transit access with both the Pink Line and Metra serving the area. So yeah, South of 26th Street you don't have great access to transit, but the corridor along Cermak has great access. Guess it depends if you view Cermak or 26th as "mainstreet" of LV.

Finally, I'll come right out and say it, hispanic areas tend to gentrify quicker because white people simply are not as afraid of Mexicans as they are of Blacks. So regardless of the "community groups" against gentrification, the waves of white people are much more likely to break on the beaches of a hispanic neighborhood. It's much easier to develop Humbolt Park, Logan Square, or Pilsen than it is to crack Bronzeville or Garfield Park.

Well, to be fair there are many places in Little Village that don't need redevelopment as much as simply reinvestment in what is there, as well as infill on destroyed corners, etc. But as far as I'm concerned developers can take their superblock developments and go home. Fine grain is the essence of Pilsen/Little Village vitality.

I agree with your boundary definition; I recently lived at 21st/California, and I can attest to the L being the dividing line between the GDs and the LKs. However, Mexicans are now steadily pushing further North to Ogden.

I would contest the gentrification imminence, however. A 7 year old girl was caught in crossfire a few blocks away from me, and there were around 150 LKs on my block alone. For gentrification any time soon, Chicago must add Mexicans to the city itself far more quickly, and retain more of the earlier immigrants. It must also gain intrepid whites far more quickly than it is. I think these waves of gentrification you're talking about are shades of a boom euphoria that implied far healthier population growth than really exists. I'd love for these areas to rise (it's actually my passion), but I don't think it will soon happen in the same way as the ones before them. Bronzeville yes, but the future of the Lawndales is heavily dependent on population growth. Garfield Park deserves rebuilt dense victorian apartment buildings with bays -- on all the major streets. But what was built there at the height of the boom shows that that is not likely its fate. It has significant barriers keeping it from its birthright.

As to mexican vs black hoods regarding gentrification, bear in mind that it's (currently) not simply a function of their color. What you say is mostly true, but its also true that Mexicans move in to more stable, more recently white and working class neighborhoods with stable building stock. Building stock is paramount. First come the people, then the development. How do the people come after everything has been demolished except subsidized low income housing with strict income requirements?

Black neighborhoods are the ones that were screwed by the FHA, the city, and basically every bad public decision it was possible to make. Theirs are the hoods that were torn up and replaced by ghetto prisons. They got the bulworks erected around them (expressways and prairie shores and United Center, and the high rises as visual and socio-economic walls, etc). In some cases til they just didn't exist anymore, as in Maxwell and the public housing high rises to the West.

I think the various levels of gov't are more to blame for the current retarded recovery of black hoods vs Mexican hoods. Government dealt their most critical blows to these communities, and left, for example, the Irish in McKinley Park alone and the Czechs in Pilsen alone. The walls that the waves of change must first crash against are those erected by racist policy makers.
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