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View Poll Results: How do you feel about building 6 storey wood frame condos?
For 15 53.57%
Against 10 35.71%
Not sure 3 10.71%
Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

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  #21  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2014, 5:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
I use Penhorwood only as an example of what comes at the end of the road for a condo corporation when a building is at the end of it's life. Whether that is one day or fifty years after construction. I think that is something individual homeowners should be sheltered from when the useful life of one type of building is likely to be significantly shorter than other similar alternatives.

If a landlord wants to built a cheap complex of buildings with the full knowledge that they may only last twenty years, that is a completely valid decision to make from a ROI perspective. By that time the land might be infinitely more valuable or it could be a ghost town. The end of the road scenario for a home owner in a condo situation is unavoidably ruinous.

Even the worst built steel and concrete tower, barring some sort of severe engineering failure or rustbelt level economic depression will always be a viable structure. It might need re-cladding, it might need new elevators, it might need new HVAC. But the concrete, steel and physical plant will always be worth millions. It might not represent the best use of any piece of land but it can be made to work.
How is this any different than a SDH? Or for that matter a 4 storey wood building? From your perspective it would seem my 102 year old house has reach EOL.
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  #22  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2014, 6:09 PM
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I don't care about the difference between four and six floors. Either is fine. I have a problem with wood frame buildings being sold as condos.

If you as a home owner let your house fall apart, that is entirely your problem. But at the same time there is nothing in your home that approaches the complexity of a mid-rise multifamily building and it was probably built a whole lot better at the time than any of these would be.
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  #23  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2014, 6:23 PM
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The article also pointed out that the oldest condos will need to be demolished & replaced after 50 or 60 years because of poor maintenance, but because the building is strata-owned, a small group of condo owners can refuse to sell and move - preventing the building demolition.
It doesn't take much imagination to get a building condemned. In the US the preferred technique is to just shut off the water, the city or county will usually condemn the same day.
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  #24  
Old Posted Nov 3, 2014, 6:43 PM
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Sounds like a bit of a mess near the end of the physical/economic lifespan for wood frame in relation to condo fees and resale values.

Assuming a sale for redevelopment after 60 years which reflects land value only, the proceeds get split amongst owners according to unit sf % as a total of building sf?
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  #25  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 3:34 PM
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Didn't see this posted http://m.inhabitat.com/all/worlds-ta...=1415374261583

6 story, 100' "all wood" building in Prince George opens. It has structural steel connectors, so not exactly solid wood.
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  #26  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2014, 9:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Policy Wonk View Post
It doesn't take much imagination to get a building condemned. In the US the preferred technique is to just shut off the water, the city or county will usually condemn the same day.
Its easier done with rentals - move the people out & the building owners are stuck with the losses.
Detroit is Ground Zero for this type of residential destruction, although I read recently that Detroit water department has been ordered by the courts to stop shutting off water of customers with delinquent accounts (which is a different issue)

Condos are harder to condemn because of individual owners of the units and strata 'owns' the rest of the building. Now you have dozens of people (and their lawyers) who have spent their hard-earned cash on their units (mortgage) and building (condo fees) who can't sell & move - even at a loss.

Last edited by jsbertram; Nov 7, 2014 at 10:17 PM.
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  #27  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2014, 4:01 AM
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It isn't necessarily easier for rentals depending on the jurisdiction and or compensation can be ridiculous.

There is nothing particularly complicated about condemning a condo, if one of the dead-enders wants to fight the sale from the motel they're living in, I guess that's up to them. There were stubborn owners who tried to squat in Penhorwood too.

The practical problem with winding up a condo corporation is that it is unavoidably ruinous for all concerned. If you have a mortgage you will have to file for bankruptcy. If you owned your unit free and clear you lose your equity. The Penhorwood owners will leave with nothing and just hoping the sale of the site covers the demolition costs so Wood Buffalo doesn't sue them.
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  #28  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2014, 8:42 PM
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Originally Posted by monocle View Post
Didn't see this posted http://m.inhabitat.com/all/worlds-ta...=1415374261583

6 story, 100' "all wood" building in Prince George opens. It has structural steel connectors, so not exactly solid wood.
I'm a big fan of the cross laminated timber constructions. As far as I can tell, it's got most of the best properties of concrete and the best of wood combined into a rapid assembly prefab system. Once this catches on, I think that we're going to see 6-8 story buildings flying up all over Calgary.

http://www.awc.org/helpoutreach/faq/...ted_timber.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLqiwBL28v4
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  #29  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2014, 9:24 PM
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Originally Posted by monocle View Post
Didn't see this posted http://m.inhabitat.com/all/worlds-ta...=1415374261583

6 story, 100' "all wood" building in Prince George opens. It has structural steel connectors, so not exactly solid wood.
That looks super cool. Thanks for sharing
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  #30  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 1:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Socguy View Post
I'm a big fan of the cross laminated timber constructions. As far as I can tell, it's got most of the best properties of concrete and the best of wood combined into a rapid assembly prefab system. Once this catches on, I think that we're going to see 6-8 story buildings flying up all over Calgary.

http://www.awc.org/helpoutreach/faq/...ted_timber.php

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLqiwBL28v4
What's the r value? Doesn't seem it would be very good.
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  #31  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 2:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monocle View Post
Didn't see this posted http://m.inhabitat.com/all/worlds-ta...=1415374261583

6 story, 100' "all wood" building in Prince George opens. It has structural steel connectors, so not exactly solid wood.
It is billed as North America's tallest wood building? Really?
Don't we still have some all-wood prairie grain elevators taller than 100'?
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  #32  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2014, 6:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Full Mountain View Post
What's the r value? Doesn't seem it would be very good.
Better than concrete or steel. Apparently, only 1/3 the amount of energy is needed to maintain interior temps.

http://www.woodworks.org/wp-content/...Advantages.pdf
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  #33  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2014, 8:03 PM
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Six-storey wood buildings ‘a game-changer’

JENNIFER LEWINGTON
CAMBRIDGE, ONT. — Special to The Globe and Mail
Published Monday, Dec. 01 2014, 3:50 PM EST, Last updated Monday, Dec. 01 2014, 3:50 PM EST


From the outside, the four-storey apartment building clad in brick and vinyl looks like any other new mid-rise residential structure. What sets it apart – and signals a coming trend – is hidden from view: The building is framed in wood, not concrete or steel.

Here, and elsewhere in Canada, wood-frame construction is about to lose its invisibility.

Under recent and pending building codes revisions in several Canadian jurisdictions, wood will be permitted in multiresidential and office buildings up to six storeys (compared with four storeys in most jurisdictions) with extra fire safety safeguards.

“It is a real game-changer,” Richard Lyall, president of the Residential Construction Council of Ontario, says of the scope for increased use of a material that usually is less expensive than concrete or steel. “It will increase the supply of apartment rentals and condos, which will be good for the market.”

He also sees wood’s potential in mid-rise commercial buildings, especially infill, that combine multiresidential, retail and professional offices.

“There is tremendous opportunity, especially in main street and avenue situations,” he predicts.

British Columbia got the ball rolling on building code changes for five- and six-storey wood buildings in 2009, with more than 250 projects now built or near completion. In Prince George, the 29.5-metre high, six-storey Wood Innovation and Design Centre was completed in October, one of the tallest contemporary wood buildings in North America, according to the province.

On Jan. 1, Ontario code revisions will allow wood-frame residential and office buildings up to six storeys, with stairwells of non-combustible materials and combustion-resistant roofs.

This year, Quebec gave the green light, too, and, in November, Calgary became the first Canadian city to accept permit applications for wood buildings of five and six storeys. Changes to the National Building Code of Canada are expected later next year, with limits on floor plate size (smaller than for concrete or steel), building height (no more than 25 metres) and requirements for sprinklers on balconies, closets and attic areas.

“These buildings, once built, are every bit as safe as concrete,” says Michael Giroux, president of the Canadian Wood Council, which has campaigned for the code changes since 2009. His organization is seeking builder interest in projects above 10 storeys.

Even with added safety costs, industry analysts estimate a 10- to 15-per-cent price advantage for wood over traditional materials, which benefits price-sensitive and infill projects.

In a 2013 report for the Building Industry and Land Development Association, former Toronto chief planner Paul Bedford identified “immense potential” to unlock dormant suburban corridors and vacant downtown spaces.

“The tremendous diversity of parcel sizes and shapes allows architects to experiment with different building types and forms to achieve housing choices for all age groups,” he wrote.

Adding wood as a building option would expand the supply of mid-rise housing developments, especially for families and seniors, he says. “This is a tipping point that will allow us to do stuff we were never able to do before.”

That’s also the hope in Calgary, a hot, high-cost housing market with low rental vacancies.

“We hope that opening up this new form of construction and lowering costs at different parts of the process will translate into lower-cost housing,” says Rollin Stanley, general manager of Planning, Development and Assessment for Calgary.

“We have got to start doing this in Calgary to meet our housing needs and try and bring down the cost of housing and open up new areas of the city with an alternative to see if we can start populating some of our corridors,” he says, citing a dearth of four- to eight-storey housing.

Attainable Homes, a Calgary agency that helps lower-income residents buy their first home, is ready to capitalize on the raised height.

“If it is true that six-storey wood frame is cheaper, and I believe it is, that will be a saving and will allow me to obtain or build units at a lower cost and will allow me to keep it within the [budget] criteria I have got,” says David Watson, president of Attainable Homes.

Critics, led by the Canadian Concrete Masonry Producers Association, which published full-page ads this year, raise fire safety in their opposition to expanded wood-frame construction.

“No matter how you look at it from the masonry point of view, we see it [the code change] adding a lot of increased risk,” says Steve Stalko, a U.S. consultant to the association.

Richard McGrath, director of codes and standards/engineered structures for the Cement Association of Canada, participated in the National Building Code review. “From a technical point of view, I certainly feel we are increasing the fire risk in these structures irrespective of the fact we are heavily sprinklering these buildings,” he says.

Some firefighter organizations have weighed in, too. “We are very concerned from a health and safety perspective for firefighters and tenants and residents of these buildings,” says Scott Marks, assistant to the general manager for Canadian operations of the International Association of Fire Fighters.

But Surrey, B.C., fire chief Len Garis, past president of the B.C. Association of Fire Chiefs, describes fire safety concerns as a “red herring.”

“Once they [wood buildings] are constructed and operating, they are no different than any other building constructed of other material,” he says. His association, initially skeptical, endorsed the B.C. code change after a study of provincial fires between 2008 and 2013 concluded an absence of sprinkler systems and smoke alarms, not the construction material, was a key determinant.

Even advocates agree that wood buildings are at particular risk during construction – with several fires in recent years including Surrey – when no sprinklers are in place. Mr. Garis, who has co-authored several studies on fire risks with wood-frame structures, says code revisions impose added safety measures during construction.

Back in Cambridge at the 23-unit apartment complex his company built this year for the Cambridge-Kiwanis Housing Corp., RHC Design-Build president Grant Roughley says the price-conscious project only went ahead with wood as a primary material.

“It [wood] allows a broader range of choices for the design and development industries in terms of how buildings are built,” says Mr. Roughley, who favours no one construction material, evaluating each by price and performance. “It introduces more options at higher density.”

With Ontario’s code change imminent, he says several clients already are reimagining their four-storey wood projects going two floors higher.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...ticle21850652/
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  #34  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2014, 8:27 PM
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That's good news! I would have liked to have seen these approved for up to eight stories though. But I suppose that will come as builders and the city get more experience with them.
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  #35  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2015, 5:24 PM
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Not Calgary related today, but it could be in the future. This should bring on some healthy discussion.

Tall Wood building residence gets final Board go-ahead
http://ubyssey.ca/news/tall-wood-get...?ref=frontpage


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  #36  
Old Posted Oct 2, 2015, 6:27 PM
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As a designer for an EWP company.. I'm all for it! Would love to work on projects like this
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  #37  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2015, 7:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Nudrock View Post
It is billed as North America's tallest wood building? Really?
Don't we still have some all-wood prairie grain elevators taller than 100'?
haha, I just heard of nearby grain elevators being 130` tall.
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