250 Taylor & Hyatt Unbound | 130'-0" & 245'-6" | 10 & 21 floors | Completed & Dead

[65MAX]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

Thats the most ridiculous rhetoric I think I've ever read for an architectural "critique" (well, besides WPA attacking Kevin Cavenaugh and Jeff Kovel). As someone who just graduated from arch grad school... puh-leaze!

Well, Z, as someone who has been a licensed and practicing architect (also LEED A.P. and AIA) for much longer than you've been in school, I know what I'm talking about. The only exageration in my previous statement is that the student probably wouldn't have been kicked out of school, but they most certainly would have received a failing grade for this project.

I mean FFS, just the hotel portion alone has four different canopies, all different styles, none of them the same height, none of them connected or even continuous, and for some inexplicable reason, NONE of them over the main entrance to the lobby. Can you even tell where the main entrance is based on the renderings if you didn't have a floor plan to look at? Being able to tell where the entrance to a hotel is (or any building for that matter) is pretty damned important for travelers. That's just basic Arch 101 stuff. And that's just one aspect of this proposal. I could go on and on but it would be a novella by the time I was done.

So yes, Z, even disregarding the destruction of the two historic buildings, just based on the "design" alone (if you can call it that), this project is one of the worst I've ever seen. That's not hyperbole, that's a fact. And I've seen a lot of pretty crappy designs in my lifetime.

Oh, and BTW, congrats on graduating from Arch school. I know you would never design anything this horrendous.

[Tykendo]

Just goes to show you, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I love this design. It fits well, and I think the tower design gives it a presence. I just don't get the hate.

[BrG]

Originally Posted by 65MAX

Well, Z, as someone who has been a licensed and practicing architect (also LEED A.P. and AIA) for much longer than you've been in school, I know what I'm talking about. The only exageration in my previous statement is that the student probably wouldn't have been kicked out of school, but they most certainly would have received a failing grade for this project.

I mean FFS, just the hotel portion alone has four different canopies, all different styles, none of them the same height, none of them connected or even continuous, and for some inexplicable reason, NONE of them over the main entrance to the lobby. Can you even tell where the main entrance is based on the renderings if you didn't have a floor plan to look at? Being able to tell where the entrance to a hotel is (or any building for that matter) is pretty damned important for travelers. That's just basic Arch 101 stuff. And that's just one aspect of this proposal. I could go on and on but it would be a novella by the time I was done.

So yes, Z, even disregarding the destruction of the two historic buildings, just based on the "design" alone (if you can call it that), this project is one of the worst I've ever seen. That's not hyperbole, that's a fact. And I've seen a lot of pretty crappy designs in my lifetime.

Oh, and BTW, congrats on graduating from Arch school. I know you would never design anything this horrendous.

Having been in practice for 20 years myself... working on and leading design of projects of similar scope and complexity to this proposal, I can only say that my opinion is that I've seen countless things that are far 'worse'. Any horrible synthetic stucco roadside motel, for starters.

I can only say that my opinion, is that it's resulting fundamental design direction (excluding the discussion about the loss of 2 existing buildings) is not as 'bad' as your stated opinion. Is this how I would've approached it? No. But... Continued opinion... It has some potential, and a lot of refinement needed in the design phase. But that's what the design process is for: To wrestle with the design feasibility inherent in its complexity, cost, civic impact, building program relationships, structural complexity, etc etc...

I'm mostly saddened that the existing structures are not in play. Total bummer and likely quite demoralizing to the design team.

This is more for those not in the business:

It's often unfortunate that the process of PDX design approval forces applicants to put complex projects out into the public eye for scrutiny before enough time has passed to allow them to gestate fully. Often they are hurried, because nervous investors put exceptional pressure on developers to get some entitlement surety. So the developers put that same force on their design team, forcing short timelines...where detail is not something that can be addressed. The architect is often forced to 'carry' this cost of the design team until developers get the rounds of investor money to pay them. It's convoluted, and particularly challenging to get a 'resolved' design direction. This is the tip of the iceberg, but it starts to paint the picture of how this stuff comes together.

[maccoinnich]

At the Design Advice the architect spoke about the challenges of reusing the buildings. The Hotel Albion obviously has an unreinforced masonry exterior, but also has load bearing unreinforced masonry walls in the interior. The Temple is supposedly one of the tallest unreinforced buildings in the city, and the interior has a weird mix of structural systems including heavy timber and cast iron trusses. The existing structure can't take any additional weight, and they were studying cantilevering the new office floors over the existing building. For extra credit reading, see their preliminary building code appeal.

I can't help but wonder whether all the gymnastics required to save the interior of the building would be worth it. Were the interior of the Temple building to be gutted I don't think we'd be losing much. The precedent that immediately occurs to me is St Vincent Street in Glasgow (where I did postgrad). It is the premier address to have an office on, and many of the buildings are elaborate Victorian stone buildings built when Glasgow was one of the richest cities in the world. Almost every Victorian building on the street has had its interior gutted and replaced with modern office floorplates. Here's an image of the old Post Office on Glasgow's main square being converted into offices:



The advantage to the developer of this technique would be that they achieve the advantages of a new build (modern column free interiors, a seismically sound building, efficient below grade parking layout, etc) AND win the goodwill of the community by keeping the only part of the building people really care about. As David Wark commented at the DAR, they would also have a really unique development that would potentially help when marketing to tenants.

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by Tykendo

Just goes to show you, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". I love this design. It fits well, and I think the tower design gives it a presence. I just don't get the hate.

I agree, I don't mind this one, though I am well aware we will see it go through a number of changes before what finally gets built.

[2oh1]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

I agree, I don't mind this one, though I am well aware we will see it go through a number of changes before what finally gets built.

I agree. I don't mind this one either, but I think it has some issues - issues that'll almost certainly be fixed before it gets finalized. I just hope the exteriors don't end up looking cheap.

[MarkDaMan]

Originally Posted by 2oh1

I agree. I don't mind this one either, but I think it has some issues - issues that'll almost certainly be fixed before it gets finalized. I just hope the exteriors don't end up looking cheap.

I have heard a rumor indicating this is a high end chain coming in. I think it will be high quality if indeed it's along the lines of a Loews or Four Seasons.

[maccoinnich]

Say Goodbye to Two Pieces of Portland History

The City's "Demolition Epidemic" May Soon Claim Two Century-Old Downtown Buildings



ANY DAY NOW, two 100-plus-year-old downtown Portland buildings could see demolition crews show up to tear them down, thanks to a loophole in city code.

There's the 109-year-old Hotel Albion, which sits on the corner of SW 3rd and Salmon and houses the Lotus Café. The bar's long been a popular hangout for city staff—so much so that Mayor Charlie Hales recalls sketching street plans for the burgeoning South Waterfront on a napkin at the Lotus during his stint as transportation commissioner.

On the same block sits the 123-year-old Ancient Order of United Workmen Temple, a majestic but crumbling brick and stone building embellished with columns and carved medallions. It was designed by Justus Krumbein, a prominent Portland architect who also designed the second state capitol in Salem.

...continues at the Portland Mercury.

[maccoinnich]

Architect and owner discuss potential United Workmen Temple and Hotel Albion demolition



BY BRIAN LIBBY

A few weeks ago came the news that two historic Portland buildings, the Ancient Order of United Workmen Temple and the Hotel Albion (housing the Lotus Cafe), would be demolished to make way for a 20-story hotel and a 10-story office building. Both properties were removed at the owners' request from the city's Historic Resource Inventory, usually the beginning of a slippery slope towards demolition. And within days, Restore Oregon began concurrent appeals to the City and to LUBA, arguing that the City erred in removing the Albion Hotel and Ancient Order of United Workmen Temple from the Historic Resource Inventory.

To learn more about what was happening and whether the two historic buildings' fates were really sealed, I first contacted Ankrom Moisan, the Portland firm associated with the hotel and office designs scheduled to replace them.

"We’ve been trying for about a year," said Ankrom Moisan's Michael Great about efforts to find a way to restore the buildings and add new construction around them, on the other two quarters of the block. But in investigating the costs, "it started painting a picture that we weren’t able to work through, unfortunately," Great added. "I think the entire development team is pretty disappointed. I know I am. We all talked internally a lot and wish there was more we could do. But it does sound like the Temple will come down."

...continues at Portland Architecture.

[urbanlife]

I like that demolition didn't sound like the first option, but I am not at all surprised. The condition I have heard that the Temple Building was in made me know for years that this building was doomed for demolition eventually.

[innovativethinking]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

I like that demolition didn't sound like the first option, but I am not at all surprised. The condition I have heard that the Temple Building was in made me know for years that this building was doomed for demolition eventually.

Good

[maccoinnich]

Summary memo [PDF] from the DAR.

[Abide]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

Summary memo [PDF] from the DAR.

I'm so glad Portland has the Commission. Hopefully their nearly unanimous advice will prod the development team to consider more options and not try to just take the easiest way out.

[maccoinnich]

It sounds like the developer is planning on splitting this into two approvals. The hotel portion (including the demolition of the Lotus) will be moving to Design Review soon. The office portion, if it moves ahead, will happen separately.

[zilfondel]

Some interior pictures of the Temple Building

(from the BDS appeals docs the architect submitted)

[Derek]

It honestly doesn't look that bad. Structural integrity is a whole different category though. I'd love to see this one saved.

[zilfondel]

I'm curious as to what the interior looked like before. While it looks structurally sound... albeit having the floors all being built from different materials (and a nightmare to design around), I wonder as to how the building was originally used and if it had a finished interior.

[Abide]

Thanks for the pictures. That is sooo cool to see inside. You'd think this building would be creative office gold. If the Overland Warehouse building can get renovated, this one sure can. The Overland Warehouse building looks like it wants to fall over at any minute.

[MarkDaMan]

Historic downtown Portland buildings, once set for demolition, get a temporary reprieve
Jan 22, 2016, 11:02am PST
Jon Bell
Staff Reporter
Portland Business Journal

http://www.bizjournals.com/portland/...e-set-for.html

The wrecking ball has temporarily swung away from two historic downtown Portland buildings that had been slated for demolition to make way for a new hotel and office tower.

T&T Development, a partnership venture between Onder Development Co. and Jeff Arthur of Arthur Mutal, has voluntarily agreed to a delay period of 120 days, which will spare the Ancient Order of United Workmen Temple and the Hotel Albion until at least April 30.

Initial plans for T&T's development on the block bounded by Southwest Second and Third and Southwest Taylor and Salmon included the demolition of the Hotel Albion building, which is home to the Lotus Cardroom and Cafe, and the construction of a 20-story boutique hotel and an adjacent office building of roughly 175,000 square feet.

Those plans would have incorporated the Workmen Temple building into the new development.

However, after further investigation into the feasibility of preserving the Workmen Temple building, the developers decided that it could not be saved and planned to tear it and the Hotel Albion down. That, in turn, lead preservation group Restore Oregon to file an appeal with the state Land Use Board of Appeals.

After several weeks of negotiations that prompted T&T's agreement to delay, Restore Oregon withdrew its appeal.

"Restore Oregon has withdrawn our appeal as a result of successful agreements from the city and from Arthur Mutal," said Brandon Spencer-Hartle, Restore Oregon's senior field programs manager.

In a news post on the Restore Oregon web site, he also noted that the nonprofit has been working with T&T to explore other options that could ultimately save the Workmen Temple.

...(continues)...

[urbanlife]

I wish Restore Oregon luck on finding a way to save this old building, I just think this one might be that one that is going to be lost no matter what.

Though I do agree with them, the loophole where a developer can easily take a building off historical registration needs to be closed. It should be like the hall of fame or something, once you are in, you are in for life.