Which cities had the earliest developed ethnoburbs (suburban ethnic enclaves)?

[Capsicum]

Which cities had the earliest situations where ethnic enclaves came to exist in suburban areas rather than (or in addition to) inner city areas?

For example, Los Angeles' Latino and Asian suburbs in its metro area, which are a very prominent example in the San Gabriel Valley.

Obviously, a lot of early suburbs were mainly "white" (post WWII, in the 50s and 60s). But, later on, minorities also got the wherewithal to be able to afford suburban homes, and so you have eg. Latino and Asian suburbs in LA, Chinese suburbs in the Bay Area and places like Vancouver and Toronto in Canada, Black suburbs in Atlanta etc.

I'm guessing most minority-dominant suburbs became that way later, perhaps at least 70s or later, often 80s, 90s etc. than "white" suburbs.

Did some cities' ethnoburbs develop earlier or had their minorities suburbanize more easily? Or did they all transition around a similar time?

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Which cities had the earliest situations where ethnic enclaves came to exist in suburban areas rather than (or in addition to) inner city areas?

For example, Los Angeles' Latino and Asian suburbs in its metro area, which are a very prominent example in the San Gabriel Valley.

Obviously, a lot of early suburbs were mainly "white" (post WWII, in the 50s and 60s). But, later on, minorities also got the wherewithal to be able to afford suburban homes, and so you have eg. Latino and Asian suburbs in LA, Chinese suburbs in the Bay Area and places like Vancouver and Toronto in Canada, Black suburbs in Atlanta etc.

I'm guessing most minority-dominant suburbs became that way later, perhaps at least 70s or later, often 80s, 90s etc. than "white" suburbs.

Did some cities' ethnoburbs develop earlier or had their minorities suburbanize more easily? Or did they all transition around a similar time?

Here, this is a very interesting and informative book to read:


upress.umn.edu

It's specific to LA's San Gabriel Valley, but it talks about how the SGV ethnoburbs developed.

[Illithid Dude]

San Pedro, arguably a suburb, was home to a large Japanese community before WWII.

[benp]

Originally Posted by Capsicum

Which cities had the earliest situations where ethnic enclaves came to exist in suburban areas rather than (or in addition to) inner city areas?

For example, Los Angeles' Latino and Asian suburbs in its metro area, which are a very prominent example in the San Gabriel Valley.

Obviously, a lot of early suburbs were mainly "white" (post WWII, in the 50s and 60s). But, later on, minorities also got the wherewithal to be able to afford suburban homes, and so you have eg. Latino and Asian suburbs in LA, Chinese suburbs in the Bay Area and places like Vancouver and Toronto in Canada, Black suburbs in Atlanta etc.

I'm guessing most minority-dominant suburbs became that way later, perhaps at least 70s or later, often 80s, 90s etc. than "white" suburbs.

Did some cities' ethnoburbs develop earlier or had their minorities suburbanize more easily? Or did they all transition around a similar time?

Maybe not technically "suburbs" but ethnic enclaves were prevalent in the late 19th and early 20th century towns adjacent to big industrial cities, like Pittsburgh and Buffalo. The village of Depew, adjacent to Buffalo, had 150 Polish families in 1874, for example. In many areas culture and language was preserved through the late 20th century.

[edale]

Does this discussion include African American communities? If so, there are probably lots of examples from around the country.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by edale

Does this discussion include African American communities? If so, there are probably lots of examples from around the country.

i’m sure chicago had these too, st. louis has/had traditionally african american extra-city enclaves and suburbs, often pre-war company towns beyond city limits in st. louis county.

same on the east side - parts of east st. louis and other illinois satellite municipalities and old company enclaves/towns..

[hauntedheadnc]

Originally Posted by edale

Does this discussion include African American communities? If so, there are probably lots of examples from around the country.

If we're talking about African-Americans, one thing you'll find in some Southern cities (and possibly elsewhere too, I dunno) is the "servants' village," in which new streetcar suburbs would end up with small settlements on their fringes where the Black servants who worked in all those fancy new houses lived. In my city the first streetcar suburb was Montford, developed in 1893, and it had two servants' villages, one to its west and one to the north. The one to the west was called Stumptown and it was destroyed in various urban renewal schemes in the 60's. The one to the north is called Klondyke and is still in existence, if somewhat diminished -- there's a big public housing complex there now.

Granted, the city quickly grew around these neighborhoods, absorbed them, and they would be considered to be in the middle of town now. But, when first built, they were suburbs.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by hauntedheadnc

If we're talking about African-Americans, one thing you'll find in some Southern cities (and possibly elsewhere too, I dunno) is the "servants' village," in which new streetcar suburbs would end up with small settlements on their fringes where the Black servants who worked in all those fancy new houses lived. In my city the first streetcar suburb was Montford, developed in 1893, and it had two servants' villages, one to its west and one to the north. The one to the west was called Stumptown and it was destroyed in various urban renewal schemes in the 60's. The one to the north is called Klondyke and is still in existence, if somewhat diminished -- there's a big public housing complex there now.

Granted, the city quickly grew around these neighborhoods, absorbed them, and they would be considered to be in the middle of town now. But, when first built, they were suburbs.

that sounds like a uniquely pre-war south thing, i'd not heard of it although i suppose the midwestern african american company suburbs are a form of this. wealthy northerners preferred/prefer servants/workers spend half the day slogging cross town on transit and foot.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

that sounds like a uniquely pre-war south thing, i'd not heard of it although i suppose the midwestern african american company suburbs are a form of this. wealthy northerners preferred/prefer servants/workers spend half the day slogging cross town on transit and foot.

Actually, the south was different than the north in this regard.

This is another interesting and eye-opening book:

Google books

The phenomenon of sundown towns was more prevalent in the northern and western US. Basically, some/many towns had laws that stated that a person of color could not be within the city limits after the sun went down. Glendale in the Los Angeles area was apparently a notorious sundown town, and even to this day, many African-Americans don't live there. It's possible that stories passed down by generations of black families made it apparent that they probably shouldn't try to live in Glendale. Plenty of Chicago suburbs were also sundown towns.

For southerners, according to the book above, sundown towns didn't make sense: "Why would you kick your servants out of the house at sunset?" seemed to be the attitude.

Pasadena, in the LA area, was not a sundown town. In the late 1800s/early 1900s, Pasadena was a wealthy resort town, and of course, the hotels employed a lot of African-Americans. They were allowed to live in Pasadena, but specifically in the northwest section, which for many decades was an African-American area and still is, though many Latinos have been moving there for many years now.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

that sounds like a uniquely pre-war south thing, i'd not heard of it although i suppose the midwestern african american company suburbs are a form of this. wealthy northerners preferred/prefer servants/workers spend half the day slogging cross town on transit and foot.

southern racsim: i don't care where you live "boy", just don't you dare ever try to gain any social capital. know your place.

northern racism: i don't care how much social capital you gain "boy", just don't you ever dare live anywhere near me. know your place.




and before any panties get all wadded up, yes, that's an EXTREMELY gross oversimplification, but with a kernel of truth none-the-less.

it's why black/white residential segregation was so much more pervasive in northern cities like chicago, philly, detroit, st. louis, milwaukee, cleveland, etc.

"all of these black folks migrating up here from the south are very scary and i just don't want to be around them."

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

southern racsim: i don't care where you live "boy", just don't you dare ever try to gain any social capital. know your place.

northern racism: i don't care how much social capital you gain "boy", just don't you ever dare live anywhere near me. know your place.




and before any panties get all wadded up, yes, that's an EXTREMELY gross oversimplification, but with a kernel of truth none-the-less.

it's why black/white residential segregation is so much more pervasive in northern cities like chicago, philly, detroit, st. louis, milwaukee, cleveland, etc.

"all of these black folks migrating up here from the south are very scary and i just don't want to be around them."

Northern and Southern racism is the same these days. There's almost no difference. What social capital do blacks have in St Louis, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston, Detroit, etc?

[Steely Dan]

i probably should have been more clear, but i thought it was obvious from the context of the post i was responding to that i was speaking in historical terms.

[the urban politician]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

Northern and Southern racism is the same these days. There's almost no difference. What social capital do blacks have in St Louis, Chicago, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Philly, Boston, Detroit, etc?

Well, there are a lot of blacks with political power in many of those northern cities you've just listed.

Chicago has a lot of black Aldermen, black leadership in the Cook County Board, as well as black owned businesses and black-led companies.

I'm not sure if that quite answers your question, but....

[James Bond Agent 007]

Does German count as "ethnic?"

If so, then Germantown, PA, founded in 1683. A "suburb" of Philly, back in the day.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by the urban politician

Well, there are a lot of blacks with political power in many of those northern cities you've just listed.

Chicago has a lot of black Aldermen, black leadership in the Cook County Board, as well as black owned businesses and black-led companies.

I'm not sure if that quite answers your question, but....

Their power is a joke. Look at the state of the black community in Chicago.

[Centropolis]

nm

[jd3189]

In South Florida, there are Cuban/ other Latino dominated suburbs like Hialeah, and Lake Worth, and Caribbean/ African American dominated suburbs like Miami Gardens and Riviera Beach.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

southern racsim: i don't care where you live "boy", just don't you dare ever try to gain any social capital. know your place.

northern racism: i don't care how much social capital you gain "boy", just don't you ever dare live anywhere near me. know your place.




and before any panties get all wadded up, yes, that's an EXTREMELY gross oversimplification, but with a kernel of truth none-the-less.

it's why black/white residential segregation was so much more pervasive in northern cities like chicago, philly, detroit, st. louis, milwaukee, cleveland, etc.

"all of these black folks migrating up here from the south are very scary and i just don't want to be around them."

Interestingly enough, from the small town (70k ish) I went to HS in while living in Arkansas featured extreme segregation (separated by no other than the railroad) but then you also had a lot of mixing between whites and blacks.

I am telling yall, smaller southern places mix people together better. Both whites and blacks are mostly poor or lower middle-class. My town had *no* private HS, so poor blacks and rich whites(and all whites, of course) were mixed into the same classes. We all shopped at the same damn store, Wal-Mart, and we pretty much shared a lot in common even if you could still see the divides at times.

Compare to a place like Miami, where a poor black kid could only imagine the lifestyle of rich people living on the beach.

[edale]

There was a really interesting article in the Atlantic recently about an old African American suburb of Cincinnati called Lincoln Heights. Situated across I-75 from the massive GE Aviation HQ, LH was founded as a community for and by black people, most of whom worked at the aviation factory, and were barred from living in other nearby white neighborhoods. Poet Nikki Giovanni and one of my favorite music groups of all time, the Isley Brothers, are from Lincoln Heights, and it was really a remarkable example of a black suburb at a time when most blacks in the country were confined to urban ghettos (at least in the north). Today, Lincoln Heights is still like 98% black, though it is impoverished, and a lot of the housing stock is in bad shape. It's in a good, diverse school district, though, and some of the old public housing has been updated or replaced, so there is some hope for a renaissance of sorts.

You can read the article here if you want: https://www.theatlantic.com/business...suburb/398303/

[Pavlov's Dog]

Of course 100 years ago Italians, Irishmen, Jews, Greeks, Russians and pretty much any non-WASP group were considered ethnic groups. There were plenty of suburbs of New York, Philadelphia and Boston that were ethnoburbs. Even Germantown, PA, now part of Philly was an ethnoburb 200 years ago.