Municipal outposts

xzmattzx · #1 Posted **Dec 23, 2018, 7:22 PM**

There are some interesting municipal "outposts" here and there. The two notable examples I can think of are in Los Angeles and San Diego.

Los Angeles has the San Pedro neighborhood, which is connected to the rest of the city via a little sliver of city land called the Harbor Gateway.

San Diego has the neighborhood of San Ysidro, which is completely cut off from the rest of the city on land (but I think is technically connected with a sliver of water in San Diego Bay).

Are there other neighborhoods in cities that are completely or almost completely cut off from the main sections of their cities?

Also, do we ever see a municipality go crazy and annex land way beyond what we've seen so far? For instance, does Phoenix annex land way up by Flagstaff or down near Tucson? Can Houston or some city annex land 100 miles away with no connection?

Centropolis · #2 Posted **Dec 23, 2018, 7:48 PM**

kansas city is pretty outrageous, has plains-y cattle farms within its municipal boundaries.

SIGSEGV · #3 Posted **Dec 23, 2018, 8:12 PM**

Chicago has O'Hare airport which is barely connected.

JManc · #4 Posted **Dec 23, 2018, 8:35 PM**

Houston can only annex land that is physically connected to the rest of the city proper. Even if it's a sliver along a freeway.

plinko · #5 Posted **Dec 23, 2018, 8:38 PM**

Laws regarding LAFCO (the government annexing body) vary state to state. In some states you cannot annex into the next County. In some states you have to have a sliver of land or water connecting, but in others there are city 'islands'.

The City of Santa Barbara is interesting in that its municipal boundaries extend in a sliver out into the ocean, west about 5 miles, then back on land to encompass the municipal airport.

Then there are 'spheres of influence' in which cities have some regulatory say over land (typically via utilities and services) but are not actually in the municipal boundary. Many times these areas are in the long term general annexation plans for cities, but have not done so yet.

It's an interesting subject.

BTW, how LA got San Pedro was that in the late 1800's the city decided it needed a deep water port.

stax · #6 Posted **Dec 23, 2018, 10:34 PM**

Dallas has Lake Ray Hubbard, which although it's considered to be 'Dallas', doesn't touch the city limits at all, from what I can tell.

Pedestrian · #7 Posted **Dec 24, 2018, 12:01 AM**

San Francisco, a city and county itself, also rules several islands in the Bay and San Francisco International Airport which is miles into San Mateo County.

Pedestrian · #8 Posted **Dec 24, 2018, 12:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

does Phoenix annex land . . . down near Tucson?

Over the cold, dead bodies of nearly everyone in Pima County and also the citizens of Casa Grande who would be in their way.

softee · #9 Posted **Dec 24, 2018, 1:24 AM**

The Toronto Islands has a small permanent population with no auto access and can only get to and from the rest of the city via ferry.

llamaorama · #10 Posted **Dec 24, 2018, 1:41 AM**

I live in one. 22 miles from downtown and I am a resident of both the city of Houston and Montgomery County(the other 99.9% of the city is in Harris, there is a similarly miniscule bit of overlap with Fort Bend), one of only maybe a couple thousand people to live in the tiny sliver of land which is in both boundaries.

My apartment complex is on the other side of US 59 across from Kingwood, a master planned community that Houston annexed back in 1994. It was the last great expansion of the city limits, acrimony that came from the annexation is what brought Houston's massive territorial expansion to an end. However part this particular area was annexed back in 1965 when the city expanded around Intercontinental Airport and Lake Houston. Some of Kingwood was annexed and de-annexed too, its quite confusing.

The only connection between this area and the rest of the city boundary-wise are two slivers of city limits which follow Aldine Westfield to the airport and then jog over along Old Humble Road.

I don't know if Houston annexing this area was good for it. Kingwood is pretty self-contained, the majority of functions are provided by HOA's and so aside from Houston PD and trash pickup there are no public facilities or parks or services. The annexation in 1965 and later blocked the City of Humble from annexing the Atascocita area, which would have resulted in the existence of a populous and politically powerful suburban municipality on the north side of the metro.

Where I work is the inverse. Aldine was never annexed by Houston despite being surrounded by it. It is a rough, underprivileged, and frankly very ugly part of town. Today there is something called the East Aldine Management District which has some means of sourcing tax revenue and is kind of like a "lite" form of local government, but aside from a community center under construction I'm not sure if they actually do anything besides put up fancy street signs.

pdxtex · #11 Posted **Dec 24, 2018, 6:38 AM**

portland has an entire neighborhood on hayden island smack in the middle of the columbia river. its a mishmash of condos, houses, floating homes, rv's and trailer parks. its got five or six marinas and nearly 3000 people living up there. check it out!

photo by sam churchill

dave8721 · #12 Posted **Dec 24, 2018, 2:34 PM**

Miami has this weird sliver that is only one property wide on both sides of NW 36th ST connecting to a casino.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Mi...!4d-80.1917902

Crazy border of South Miami. In some cases just a single house on a block will be part of the city.
https://www.google.com/maps/place/So...!4d-80.2907618

JManc · #13 Posted **Dec 24, 2018, 3:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by llamaorama

I don't know if Houston annexing this area was good for it. Kingwood is pretty self-contained, the majority of functions are provided by HOA's and so aside from Houston PD and trash pickup there are no public facilities or parks or services. The annexation in 1965 and later blocked the City of Humble from annexing the Atascocita area, which would have resulted in the existence of a populous and politically powerful suburban municipality on the north side of the metro.

I live in Kingwood. The only CoH services we have up here are HPD and HFD. We pay for private trash (which suck ass) and the parks services are Kingwood (private). I think our water is separate too. The school district is Humble ISD.

llamaorama · #14 Posted **Dec 24, 2018, 7:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by JManc

I live in Kingwood. The only CoH services we have up here are HPD and HFD. We pay for private trash (which suck ass) and the parks services are Kingwood (private). I think our water is separate too. The school district is Humble ISD.

Yes but Houston gets that sweet, sweet sales tax revenue :/

I think Kingwood should have incorporated as its own city. It worked for Sugarland and Pearland.

It's such a popular opinion on SSP to criticize balkanized suburban municipalities and say that forced amalgamation should happen. But everything can be taken to an extreme and Houston is a good example of why too little devolution is bad. It's not reasonable to have a single city with a strong mayor in charge of 2.5 million people and have another 3 million or so people living in only the county.

IMO the optimal arrangement is when you have municipalities with about 200 to 500 thousand people. That's big enough to be efficient and minimize administrative overhead, have a diversified tax base, and the resources to tackle issues. But small enough that it is possible to know your councilperson and for local leaders to be responsive to citizens on every street and block.

The Chemist · #15 Posted **Dec 25, 2018, 12:22 PM**

Shanghai has Chongming Island, Changxing Island, and Hengsha Island (together comprising Chongming District) in the Yangtze estuary which are only connected to the rest of Shanghai Municipality by a bridge / tunnel across the Yangtze (and in the case of Hengsha, not even that - you have to take a ferry to get there). There are plans to build a Metro line out to these islands to better connect them, but it's still a few years off.

Leveled · #16 Posted **Dec 25, 2018, 3:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Yes but Houston gets that sweet, sweet sales tax revenue :/

I think Kingwood should have incorporated as its own city. It worked for Sugarland and Pearland.

It's such a popular opinion on SSP to criticize balkanized suburban municipalities and say that forced amalgamation should happen. But everything can be taken to an extreme and Houston is a good example of why too little devolution is bad. It's not reasonable to have a single city with a strong mayor in charge of 2.5 million people and have another 3 million or so people living in only the county.

IMO the optimal arrangement is when you have municipalities with about 200 to 500 thousand people. That's big enough to be efficient and minimize administrative overhead, have a diversified tax base, and the resources to tackle issues. But small enough that it is possible to know your councilperson and for local leaders to be responsive to citizens on every street and block.

No, we need more top down power and less people mucking it up, not more.

llamaorama · #17 Posted **Dec 25, 2018, 4:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leveled

No, we need more top down power and less people mucking it up, not more.

What do you mean by that?

Hudson11 · #18 Posted **Dec 25, 2018, 5:37 PM**

NYC's Rockaway Peninsula is quite the oddity. It attaches outside of the city limits in Long Island and is only connected to the city by a series of bridges. Oh, and it's the jurisdiction of Queens, but its south of Brooklyn on the Atlantic.

iheartthed · #19 Posted **Dec 26, 2018, 5:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIGSEGV

Chicago has O'Hare airport which is barely connected.

Detroit Metro Airport has a Detroit address, even though the airport sits about 15 miles from the city limits.

Steely Dan · #20 Posted **Dec 26, 2018, 6:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by iheartthed

Detroit Metro Airport has a Detroit address, even though the airport sits about 15 miles from the city limits.

when i google map "Detroit", DTW is not included in the incorporated municipal limits of the city of detroit, so i don't think DTW's ~8 square miles of land are included in the city of detroit's total land area of 139 sq. miles.

in the case of ORD and chicago, the airport is entirely within the municipal limits of the city of chicago and is connected to the rest of the city by a very thin little strip of land along foster avenue that's ~200' wide and ~3/4 mile long.

you can see the thin little strip of land on the map below (ORD is community area 76):

source: https://consortium.uchicago.edu/web_...nt/mainmap.htm