Hartsfield Jackson Atlanta International Airport

[Dragonheart8588]

Originally Posted by Andrea

I for one don't want to kill the airlines but I think we could use a more balanced transportation system. If we were an efficient and well connected passenger rail hub that would attract businesses, too.

I don't think we have a rail system that is fast enough meet the new global demand of the "now" and "instant" world. An example, I will be flying to Seattle next week, it cost $200 with Airtran on a 4.5 hours flight compares to Amtrak that takes 2 days and cost nearly $800. Unless jet fuel becomes ridiculous expensive and cost more to fly than train, until then train will be a dying breed. It is supposed to dead by now if it wasn't for gov't subsidies.

[ATLonthebrain]

I agree, Andrea. I wish the State Legislators would stop getting hot and cold about this regional rail system and do something to jumpstart it. It would actually improve accessibility to a handful of those smaller communities which currently see air service (a few flights a day, mainly to ATL) and may reduce the need for the frequency if a good and reliable alternative were available. The way things are going these are the communities which will take a hit if oil prices don't come down to a reasonable level soon. What is the latest on commuter rail down there? I haven't heard much lately. Lines that went down to Macon, over to Columbus, Augusta, Athens, and up to Chattanooga with limited stops in between would seem to work. I know there have been extensive studies done about what lines would be in highest demand to implement first, but time's a wastin' here and seemingly, nothing is happening.

[atlantaguy]

^Hey, Bryant! Hope you're doing well up there. This is my first post in quite a while (busy with a new job).

To answer your question about the status of starting up commuter rail here, the news is not good. The prevailing anti-Metro sentiment of the State Legislature combined with a total lack of leadership on transportation issues from Sonny-Bubba has resulted in no action whatsoever. The Legislature went home without adressing transportation for the 2nd year in a row. There was a bill floated to let certain counties join together regionally to let the voters decide to tax themselves for transportation, but it failed to pass.

We are in the third year of the Republican takeover of the State government, and by ALL accounts, it has been a total train wreck for the Metro area. Transportation (other than more pavement) is being ignored at the State level, and the Metro area business community is getting fed up fast.

There was the annual LINK trip this past week to Denver, and I've copied Maria Saporta's column about the transportation initiatives they have started that blow us out of the water.

Denver’s regional transit plan leaves Atlanta years behind
By Maria Saporta | Friday, May 2, 2008, 04:10 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

MARTA General Manager Beverly Scott is green with envy.

The Denver region is building 120 miles of light rail and commuter rail that should be complete by 2015. Already, Denver operates about 1,000 buses at peak times, compared to MARTA’s meager 550 buses (although our region is nearly double Denver’s metro population).

And Denver also is planning to increase its bus service by 25 percent.

“We are being dwarfed by comparison,” Scott said when she called me from Denver this afternoon. Robert Brown, an architect who serves on the board of the Georgia Department of Transportation, said much the same thing. Both were part of the LINK delegation of about 110 Atlanta leaders who have been in Denver for the past three days.

“They’ve been making progress,” said Brown, who actually has been on every LINK trip including the first one in 1997 that also visited Denver. “Atlanta has continued to plan and study. It’s pretty obvious they have moved ahead of us in providing choices for transportation. That’s obvious when you ride their system.”

Two factors have led to Denver’s progress. Strong regional consensus and a dedicated source of funding.

“They have certainly embraced regional collaboration,” Brown said. “It’s still a work-in-progress for us.”

Denver has learned the hard way. Back in 1997, a proposal to fund a plan was presented to voters, and the measure failed in a 58 percent to 42 percent vote.

But in 2004, after an extensive campaign to reach voters, voters approved a sales tax increase of 4 cents on every $10 to fund an ambitious transportation plan with most of the money going towards rail transit. The measure passed: 58 percent to 42 percent.

One reason it was passed by voters throughout the region is that transit is planned in every direction.

“They were able to develop a plan that had something for everyone,” Brown said. “And even the areas not in the plan understood that it would benefit the region and their community in the long run.”

Scott said that key was developing a plan that offered service that was appropriate to the contributions from each of the counties.

“People from Atlanta are realizing that in the last 12 years, Denver has come from behind and passed us,” said Bill Bolling, executive director of the Atlanta Community Food Bank who also has been on all 12 LINK trips. “Denver is a totally different place than it was 12 years ago. They have really worked out the mechanics to be a regional entity.”

Scott, who was on her first LINK trip, put it another way. “We candidly have about 10 to 15 years ahead of us to catch up with Denver,” she said. “It’s clear that they think and act regionally. They have pulled together and understand that they sink or swim together.”

One speaker, Tom Norton, who is a former director of the Colorado Department of Transportation, shared some advice with the Atlanta delegation, Scott said.

“No plan is perfect,” he told the group. “If you sit around waiting for perfection, the world will pass you by.”

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by Dragonheart8588

I don't think we have a rail system that is fast enough meet the new global demand of the "now" and "instant" world. An example, I will be flying to Seattle next week, ....

It's not feasible to take a train to Seattle. I'm talking about places like Nashville. If we had trains that could average even 100 mph, that would be competitive for regional destinations.

[atlantaguy]

Andrea, I could not agree more. Just think how great it would be if we had Acela-type service up and down the corridor from DC to at least Birmingham, Chicago to Miami via Nashville and Atlanta, etc. People would totally flock to these trains on a regional basis - just the way it used to be. If you could jump on Acela to Charlotte, who would possibly choose to fly up there? The train would probably be faster than flying to almost every regional market within 300-350 miles.

I'm still waiting for someone to propose a Eisenhower type plan for high speed rail Nationwide. It would be a boon to the economy, wean us a little from oil, help the environment, employ thousands to construct it and reshape the country in the direction we NEED to be heading.

Oy!

[Andrea]

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

I'm still waiting for someone to propose a Eisenhower type plan for high speed rail Nationwide. It would be a boon to the economy, wean us a little from oil, help the environment, employ thousands to construct it and reshape the country in the direction we NEED to be heading.

Oy!

Atlantaguy, you are wise, as always. What a fantastic idea!!! Now that would get this company moving, literally and figuratively. We'd reap the benefits for a hundred years at least.

[NativeAtlantan]

I'm on board with all the regional train hype - sign me up.

Now, "All Aboard!!"

[GTviajero81]

This could be big. Intrastate flights within the biggest state east of the Mississippi that are not tied into a major carrier......


By STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 06/11/08

Wings Air is set to begin flights between Athens and Atlanta on Monday and another carrier, Georgia Skies, plans to begin the same service soon.

Wings will leave Athens-Ben Epps Airport at 7 a.m. on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays for a one-way fare of $49. The return flight will leave Atlanta at 6:30 p.m. on the same days.


Georgia Skies will begin daily flights between Athens and Atlanta after it works out contracts with Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport for access to gates and ticketing areas. The company says that could take a month.

Last October, Wings Air CEO Charlie Mintz said his company was selling out its shuttle flights from Briscoe Field in Gwinnett to Athens for University of Georgia football games at $89 a seat, and he said he expected similar interest in shuttles to Hartsfield-Jackson.



Thoughts? Time to get the KATL thread hopping again!

[STrek777]

Originally Posted by GTviajero81

This could be big. Intrastate flights within the biggest state east of the Mississippi that are not tied into a major carrier......


By STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 06/11/08

Wings Air is set to begin flights between Athens and Atlanta on Monday and another carrier, Georgia Skies, plans to begin the same service soon.

Wings will leave Athens-Ben Epps Airport at 7 a.m. on Mondays, Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays for a one-way fare of $49. The return flight will leave Atlanta at 6:30 p.m. on the same days.


Georgia Skies will begin daily flights between Athens and Atlanta after it works out contracts with Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport for access to gates and ticketing areas. The company says that could take a month.

Last October, Wings Air CEO Charlie Mintz said his company was selling out its shuttle flights from Briscoe Field in Gwinnett to Athens for University of Georgia football games at $89 a seat, and he said he expected similar interest in shuttles to Hartsfield-Jackson.



Thoughts? Time to get the KATL thread hopping again!

Well isn’t that cute. It looks like two guys that are in a pissing match with one another. The same single route for both companies… please.

They don’t have to worry about competition from Delta or Airtran so they might make some money. The downside is that I don’t know how much. I want to bet that they will be using prop planes or the smallest jets they could possible find.

But these are two guys that forgot that you leave the bar fight at the bar. At some point one of them is going to get ambitiously stupid and throw some 50 – 70 seat regional get onto the rout and drown in their own debt.

My biggest question though is where exactly were they thinking of parking them? Using whose gate? Delta has leased out every gate on half of T-concourse all of A and B-concourses half of C and D-concourses and E-concourse has universal gates open to all but is only designed for larger aircraft.

We shall see!

[GTviajero81]

Careful darling, don't get so defensive so quickly.

By researching Wings Air website, it seems that they will be utilising the GA (General Aviation, for the uninitiated) parking spots at the airport and having a shuttle that leads directly to the North Terminal for security (for 'onto' passengers). The aircraft seats no more than eight, and in the beginning there is will one flight leaving Athens in the morning and then a return in the evening. I applaud them and I believe that this may actually work. A regional jet flight would only work during the times that either school at UGA is in session or home football game seasons (similar to the United Express service between Washington-Dulles and Charlottesville, VA). With the average price of petrol nowadays and sheer hassle of driving on some of the Metro area's worst freeways, I do not anticipate seeing too many people look askance at a $49+tax each way to mitigate the 'drama' involved with flying commercially.

Good luck and kudos for SOMEONE having the guts to bring about options in travel around North GA that doesn't require the automobile.

[Pompuss]

Wouldn't it make more sense if they flew out of PDK though? Passengers would have cheaper parking, cheaper airport fees, quicker access to your flight, and not to mention the fact that PDK is closer to the higher-income yuppie UGA alum in the northen metro area, the people who would most likely utilize this service. With a plane that seats 8, most likely a turboprop, why deal with flying into Hartsfield? By the time it took people to get on the plane they could have already been looking for a parking space outside Samford stadium.

[NativeAtlantan]

Pompuss, I agree and was just about to ask the same thing....seems like a mistake to run out of ATL. Does PDK allow commercial flights?

[Buckley]

Athens is losing its US Air connection to Charlotte. As a replacement, this federally subsidized service is primarily aimed at allowing people to fly from Athens to rest of the world or vice versa. The only commercial option currently is a van service to/from Hartsfield. This is not intended to be a service for football fans 6 or 7 times a year. Hence, flying to Hartsfield is the only real option.

[Fiorenza]

Is the same taxpayer-subsidized program being offered to Macon, Columbus, Augusta, and Rome?

[GTviajero81]

Well currently there is commercial airline service in these Georgia cities:
Atlanta
Albany
Athens
Augusta
Brunswick/Golden Isles
Columbus
Macon/Warner Robins
Savannah/Hilton Head
Valdosta

As far as to whether these stations exist still due to the federal programme that provides subsidies for flying into certain small airports, I do not know. The thing is that now that Metro Atlanta can effectively be said to reach from Metro Athens to Calhoun to Rome and the AL border to the northern reaches of Macon, this is will be the only commercial service that has flights within a city's Metro area! Previously there was United Express service for both LAX (Los Angeles Int'l) to ONT (Ontario) and Washington-Dulles to Baltimore-Washington (both, currently scrapped). As pointed out earlier, this service is not intended to cater to football fans and the like...it is to diminish the hassle with a having to get to ATL from Athens for another commercial flight. This is why there is shuttle service to the North Terminal for check-in and for clearing TSA security. Personally, if I lived in Athens and had a flight to, say, Dubai (one of my favourite destinations) and all I had to do was pay $49+tax to get to ATL without having to pay for parking and actually driving there I would be all for it.

[Fiorenza]

OK, I can see subsidization of public mass transit if cost justified, but why do we need to subsidize something that basically caters to only a few, who anyway can afford to pay if they need it? I mean, Albany GA, c'mon.

Is this a program targeted to assist congresspeople and their wealthy contributors get back and forth to their respective districts at taxpayer expense?

[Chris Creech]

It would be nice too with other closer out-of-state airports like Birmingham, Chatt, Tallahassee, Green/Spart, to have the rail option for these trips that are just too short to hassle with for a short flight, but also to open up some other flight options. A lot of people already drive to B'ham for lower fares.

[Buckley]

Originally Posted by Chris Creech

A lot of people already drive to B'ham for lower fares.

I don't doubt that occasionally someone will find a cheaper flight from BHM-perhaps even so much so that they are compelled to drive to Birmingham. But I have a hard time believing flights from BHM are generally cheaper than flights from ATL or that people routinely drive 2+ hours from Atlanta to fly, especially when that likely will transplate into an extra connection. Perhaps the destination has something to do with it, but I find flying (especially up the east coast or abroad) much cheaper from ATL than BHM.

[smArTaLlone]

Officials of the city-run airport Wednesday got initial approval to expand one of Hartsfield-Jackson's five runways in anticipation of more international flights once the merger is approved.

The runway expansion means Hartsfield-Jackson would be able to handle more 400-passenger Boeing 747s, specifically 747-400s, which is the workhorse of Northwest Airlines' international fleet.

"We expect more large aircraft to be moved here from Detroit [after the merger]," airport deputy general manager Mario Diaz said in an interview after the city Transportation Committee gave its nod to spend $3 million for the design phase of the runway expansion.

"We have not made any specifics commitments or announcement regarding any additional international service out of the Atlanta airport related to the merger," said Delta spokeswoman Susan Elliott. She said the airline wanted runway 9L 27R lengthened to accommodate Delta flights headed to distant locations.

"This request has been in place for some time, and it's specifically related to the 777s," she said, noting that Delta would like the runway project completed by 2009.

The runway, the first of three southern runways from the terminal, is about 11,890 feet. The airport wants to add 500 feet to its eastern end and possibly another 900 feet on the western side. Diaz said he did not have a cost for the runway project.

Big jets can now take off from Hartsfield-Jackson with a full load of fuel, cargo and passengers during most weather conditions, Diaz told the Transportation Committee. But in extremely hot weather, they have to shed fuel or cargo. That means the airline loses revenue on cargo or the aircraft has to stop to refuel on a long trip.


AJC

[Muskavon]

Just a question...do small jet flights from Atlanta to Athens (for a ballgame for example) really have less environmental impact than 10 SUV's packed with dumb Dawg fans? ...ok a Gator had to throw the insult in. I have no idea. Just curious.