No turning back for EDM

[murman]

Thanx for this thread. I haven't laffed that hard in a long time. If jsan could drop the politically-charged components of his rant, he'd be left with little to say.

[Bassic Lab]

Originally Posted by Boris550

Uhhh, okay. I think your problem is just that you are basically one of the people being attacked in this article. I am a born Edmontonian, bred Calgarian and have lived in both cities. There is quite a difference in attitudes about our cities. You may see Edmonton as having been humble, desirable, small town... to me, for many years I just saw it as the rather cold, uninviting city to the north.

I'm not totally surprised that there are people who want things to go back to how they were "in the good old days" (even though these visions are always untrue and rather glorified) but how can a person not see the huge new opportunities for Edmonton at all? I mean, new cultural institutions, new economic opportunities (and directions for the city to go in general), even more events and attractions, L-freaking-RT?

Maybe if you are a car-obsessed, Tim Horton's drinking, pickup truck-driving, blue collar factory worker, you might not be able to appreciate any of this. However, I hardly think that is representative of the average Edmontonian. Hell, I can totally understand about the frustrations of first time buyers in this housing market. But then again, is this really all doom and gloom? Or maybe, just maybe, this opens the door to more housing options than Edmontonians have had in the past?

A final note. Certainly, substance abuse and crime are on a rise. But even with these slight increases, the rates are quite low in comparison to other North American cities. Let's try to keep things in perspective.

There are things that we lose with growth beyond just hick attractions. I've spent a fair bit of time in smaller cities and the differences aren't just imagined. People act differently, in bigger cities their is a rush and every one pretty well just forgets what manners are. It would also be a lie to say that small cities are devoid of culture. I find it is linked closer to universities and arts funding than population and in no way tied to the economy. Alot of people bemoan Calgary for a lack of culture, when really they aren't looking and they're the same people who wouldn't find any in Toronto or New York. Growth has also damaged the natural areas of this province, parts of K country are becoming dumps because too many people are using the land to intensely. So growth has real costs and smaller centres have real benefits.

Now I prefer the additional ammenities of a bigger city like Calgary to a smaller one and love the excitement of the place but I can admit that it isn't all positive. We have given things up in the name of progress, and not just hick things.

[JAH]

[QUOTE=jsan;2871092]Again though, I think some of you are missing the point. Edmonton's Boom is not attracting people and families from other parts of the country who already have decent jobs or value quality of life above everything else. No, Edmonton's Boom is primarily attracting single young males and allot of people who are in search of unskilled oilfield laborer type positions. Why in the world would someone with a good job, family and friends move to a Province that in all respects is VERY expensive?
QUOTE]

Although some of your arguement is true, I believe our boom has actually attracted many "well off" people and families. There are an abundance of very well high paying jobs being created from this boom that is not related to the oilfield. Think about the financial sector and the trickle effect of this boom for all the other industries in this city as well. Since business revenue is higher everywhere, our competitive wages are amongst the highest in the country, therefore we are attracting many 'people and families from other parts of the country who already have decent jobs or value quality of life above everything else' as you put it. Just look at the high paying positions just Capital Health and Nanotech alone has attracted to our fair city. I'm pretty sure that many of these newcomers to Edmonton are not your typical single young oilrig worker high on drugs

[Shodan]

Labour-market activity hottest in Edmonton
Capital city gaining ground on Calgary

CanWest News Service

Friday, June 01, 2007

Edmonton is gaining ground on Calgary in economic momentum, according to a report by CIBC Worlds Markets.

In its semi-annual Metro Monitor, CIBC says Calgary topped the list of 24 of the most populated areas in Canada.

Calgary was assigned a score of 33.2, which was based on indicators such as employment, housing and bankruptcy rates. Edmonton was a close second with 31.4.

"The strong performance of Calgary is not a big surprise given the booming Albertan economy," the report says.

"But perhaps a more interesting observation is the fact that Edmonton is closing the performance gap with Calgary.

"Edmonton is ranked second in our index, reflecting strong population growth (second only to Calgary), and a labour market that is, in fact, hotter than that of Calgary. The housing market in Edmonton is also strong with average price rising the fastest among all cities," the report says.

Calgary was the top area in terms of population growth and the proportion of jobs that are full-time, and it had the lowest level of consumer bankruptcy.

"Everybody's looking at Calgary, but the labour market in Edmonton is actually hotter," said Benjamin Tal, a senior economist with CIBC World Markets. "If you look at the housing market, (Edmonton's) stronger (than Calgary). If you look at population growth, (Edmonton's) second only to Calgary."

Rounding out the top five spots were Canada's three largest cities, Vancouver, Montreal and Toronto, in that order in terms of economic momentum.

The report says that while "Vancouver did not excel in any of our sub-categories, it was able to perform above average in many of them."

Montreal was said to have a "notable improvement in labour-market activity," but still lagging in non-residential building permits and housing starts.

Saskatchewan's two biggest cities were listed high, with Saskatoon at No. 6 and Regina at No. 7. Saskatoon was cited as having the best job market and resale housing market in the country.

Ottawa-Gatineau was in the middle of the pack this time in the No. 12 spot. Tal said the national capital region's momentum has declined due to a slowing housing market, less robust technology industry and struggling manufacturing sector. Windsor, Ont., was near the bottom of the list at 22nd with a score of 3.4. Tal said the city was hurt by the state of the automotive sector, manufacturing in general and the struggling U.S. economy it borders on.

Two areas -- Thunder Bay, Ont., and Saguenay, Que. -- were assigned negative scores, minus-0.9 and minus-2.9, respectively. The high-valued Canadian dollar and struggling manufacturing industries were cited as factors in each case.

Conspicuous by its absence in the survey was Winnipeg, which was left out because officials there were unwilling to disclose necessary information.
© The Edmonton Journal 2007

Copyright © 2007 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.

[Edmonchuck]

Here is the funny thing, you could almost write these articles in a 30 year time capsule, pull them out in a predictable sequence, substitute leader X for Lougheed, Reimer, Manning, Klein, etc, and reprint. Calgary vs Edmonton in terms of population, importance, and impact seems to see saw back and forth in a 30 year cycle, first 10, city X is in the lead, second 10, city Y gains and passes, third 10, bust...

[slapshot™]

Originally Posted by jsan

Edmontonians are becoming Delusional, give them a sandbox full of dirty, high carbon oil and they now begin to think they are the center of the universe.

Dillusional? Not at all. E-towners have another 23 years to do that - catch up to T-dot and their happless Leafs. :]

[Shodan]

Mixed economic signals

June 3, 2007

By NEIL WAUGH, EDMONTON SUN

Edmonton has been picked near the top of the heap and close to the bottom of the barrel all in the span of a week.

First the good news.

CIBC World Markets analyst Ben Tal released his latest major metro economic activity index last week.

And it's "no big surprise" Alberta's second city was the best in the country - leaving Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver in the dust.

It's the "booming Alberta economy," stupid. And Calgary's "already elevated activity" just went up another notch when Tal crunched the numbers for nine key economic "drivers."

"The ability of the city to continue to show strong momentum is impressive," the CIBC report noted.

But in the No. 2 hole is Redmonton - despite the best efforts of city council to drive growth out of town with last week's 20%-plus property tax hike for large numbers of Edmontonians.

Tal called it a "most interesting observation," and crowed about how the city is "closing the performance gap with Calgary."

He put it down to strong population growth and a labour market that's "hotter than that of Calgary."

Statistics Canada also confirmed last week that the housing market is strong. In its first quarter residential construction survey, the Ottawa number-crats noted the boom in the West "maintained its positive influence on the housing sector."

Alberta construction investment led the nation with a hefty 22.4% increase in Q1 2006, to $3.48 billion.

But while Edmonton is near the top in growth, it's now second best in the West when it comes to the creeps and bums factor.

In a poll to be released tomorrow, the Canada West Foundation determined that next to Winnipeg, Edmontonians voted that they have the "least attractive" downtown in the West, with 27.4% of respondents giving the city centre a rating of four or less out of 10.

Clearly, the downtown deadbeats are a significant factor in making it a no-go area for a large number of citizens.

But city council bears much of the blame thanks to its deliberate policy of perpetuating the private parking monopoly and the city's own horde of rapacious parking cops.

While most economic signs point up, there's one trend that's still heading for the broadloom, as the National Energy Board sadly noted in its latest energy outlook, released last week.

"Canadian producers continued to restrain natural gas drilling activity despite strengthening gas prices," the NEB gloomed.

It cited the shift from gas to oil exploration as well as a "15% drop in drilling budgets in 2007."

"Should natural gas prices continue to rise and drilling costs stabilize," the summary optimistically added, "there is a potential for drilling activity to strengthen later in the year."

But right now, the reality is that only 68 units out of a total Alberta rig fleet of 722 were turning on bottom last week.

A severe turndown like that is soon going to start showing up in the economic data - as will the continuing high price of motor fuel.

In its mid week survey, MJ Ervin and Associates determined that regular gas in Edmonton had dropped 4.1 cents a litre from a week earlier, to $1.139 per litre.

The US Energy Information Administration called a similar retreat in American gas prices a "summer breeze that makes you feel fine."

Some shut-in refineries are back on stream and imports have picked up.

"Whether the recent welcome breeze of retail price declines can be sustained and extended is yet to be determined," the EIA update sighed.

The National Energy Board concurs.

"Gasoline prices will track crude prices and remain high in the face of strong demand," the NEB outlook predicted. And with its forecast that oil will remain "around $65 US a barrel" all summer, high pump prices appear here to stay.

"High demand for gasoline coupled with very low gasoline inventories will support crude oil prices," the board said.

And only a further slowdown in the US economy or if OPEC suddenly decides to flood world markets with increased oil production will prevent that from happening.

And neither of those two scenarios is likely to occur.

[Coldrsx]

"But city council bears much of the blame thanks to its deliberate policy of perpetuating the private parking monopoly and the city's own horde of rapacious parking cops."

HAHAHHAHA OMG....ever parked in any other major cdn city? Vancouver and Toronto are far more aggresive with unpaid meters.

as for 20% property tax increases...in some areas yes...but more people, id bet 85% out there, saw marginal increases. It is called a bell curve mr. writer...some people will be on the end.

While an ok article reminding us about the good and the bad, those 2 points make me wish i had a louder voice out there.

[Coldrsx]

"In a poll to be released tomorrow, the Canada West Foundation determined that next to Winnipeg, Edmontonians voted that they have the "least attractive" downtown in the West, with 27.4% of respondents giving the city centre a rating of four or less out of 10."

some areas still need A LOT OF WORK...but overall it has come a long way and id bet many of the people who voted <4/10 dont come downtown and just read the sun

[Edmonchuck]

Sun readers...whiners...complainers....poll responders...

[freeweed]

Coupla late comments (you can imagine who I'm directing them towards):

1. I've lived in a stagnant city. No growth, no new development, nothing new at all. It STINKS. Change is good, period. Embrace it, because the alternative quite frankly SUCKS. Stability is only good when you're 75 and new things scare you.

2. Most people moving to Alberta ARE NOT low-wage, can't afford the housing oilrig workers. Does anyone seriously think tens of thousands are coming here each month and working at Tim's? With the average house pushing HALF A MILLION dollars, that's a heck of a lot of well-paid people moving here. We moved here for the change, for the excitement, for the money - but we definitely didn't come to work some piddly no-pay job and not be able to afford anything. If anything, the people "left behind", that find property values and other expenses just ridiculous - those are the folks who already lived here, and haven't ridden the boom.

You don't get 100,000+ people moving in a year to somewhere they cannot afford it. How else do you explain the rapidly escalating property values? People are paying these mortgages somehow!

[CMD UW]

Originally Posted by jsan

Again though, I think some of you are missing the point. Edmonton's Boom is not attracting people and families from other parts of the country who already have decent jobs or value quality of life above everything else. No, Edmonton's Boom is primarily attracting single young males and allot of people who are in search of unskilled oilfield laborer type positions. Why in the world would someone with a good job, family and friends move to a Province that in all respects is VERY expensive? They wouldn't, but someone who is in a dead end job with little or no prospects might make that move even if they have to live in their car. I'm quite sure these people are much less concerned about new museums or art galleries being built than grabbing a quick buck and running.

While a fast paced economy like ours does attract the one-shot-wonders, there are many folks that move out here to advance their careers in high-paying, white collar jobs. I know at least a dozen or so people who have moved to Edmonton from places like Toronto & Montreal to work in the engineering, land development, and urban planning fields.

You are making too big of a generalization with your statement given my experience.

[240glt]

^No kidding... I relocated here to take a very good engineering-type job (actually my company moved me from Calgary, but that's besides the point) Yes there are lots of transient workers, but more & more middle/upper class people are moving here too.

Oh, and I make about 30% more in Edmonton than I would at a similar job in Vancouver or Toronto, and no, I don't work in the oil & gas industry

[Coldrsx]

^and i make 10-20% more than equivalent in the same markets:>

[Xelebes]

I make on par. Mind you, I'm at a summer job waiting for NAIT season to start.

[freeweed]

I'm pushing 50% more, and them some (benefits).

Admittedly this is coming from a far different job and housing market than T.O. or Van, but still...

Alberta is a phenomenal place to make a boatload of cash, if you play your cards right. As I've said many times before, I could live mortgage free in half the country now - and still have less disposable income. And no Rockies.

[Shodan]

June 6, 2007

City sees cup as half full
Poll shows Edmontonians optimists

By FRANK LANDRY, CITY HALL BUREAU

Our slogan could easily be City of Optimists.

Despite the pockmarked streets, housing crunch and tight labour market, Edmontonians still see a bright future in the provincial capital, according to a survey released this week by the Canada West Foundation.

The poll found 43% of E-Towners are confident their quality of life will improve over the next five years, compared to 27% who think it will deteriorate.

The remainder felt things would stay the same.

That stands in stark contrast to our Calgary cousins, who were far more bitter.

Only 34% of respondents in Cowtown felt their quality of life would improve over the five-year period, while 36% were sure it would go downhill.

'DEFINITELY STANDS OUT'

"It definitely stands out between the two cities," said Robert Roach, director of research with the Canada West Foundation, a Calgary-based think-tank. "For whatever reason, Edmontonians are more optimistic."

Coun. Michael Phair suggested the difference could be because the boom hit Calgary before reaching Edmonton, so people have had longer to feel the consequences.

"Some of the issues we're starting to face in Edmonton, particularly around affordable housing and the rising number of homeless, have been more pronounced in Calgary."

If that theory holds true, Edmontonians could become more bitter with the passing months, Roach said.

"If we did the survey again a year or two from now, you might see Edmontonians a little more anxious, a little more stressed out about those same issues."

SEVEN CITIES SURVEYED

The survey, conducted by Probe Research, polled 3,500 Canadians in seven major cities - six in the West, plus Toronto - between Jan. 2 and Feb. 3.

It also found 33% of Edmontonians felt life in the city improved over the past five years, while 28% said it deteriorated. That was still better than Calgary, where 45% of respondents said things had gotten worse - the poorest ranking of any of the cities surveyed.

But Edmontonians didn't turn a blind eye to the city's problems. Only 14% of respondents rated the downtown as an attractive area. The only city with a poorer showing was Winnipeg, where 10% of respondents thought their core was worth bragging about.

Jim Taylor, executive director of the Downtown Business Association, said he's sure that number will creep up once Edmontonians see the new building projects planned for the area.

Among them is the planned reopening of the old Bay building on Jasper Avenue, which will be christened Enterprise Square, as well as a handful of other office, retail and condo buildings in the core.

[Shodan]

City 'No. 1' for long-term investment
Real estate guru Don Campbell bullish on capital region

Ron Chalmers
The Edmonton Journal

Wednesday, June 20, 2007

EDMONTON - "Edmonton is the No. 1 place in North America for long-term real estate investment," says Don Campbell, president of the Real Estate Investment Network, and he expects the value of apartment buildings to especially rise where renters are near improved public transit.

The southern extension of the LRT will boost the value of revenue properties south of the University of Alberta, Campbell said Tuesday.

He also likes the outlook for northeast Edmonton, near the sites of proposed bitumen upgraders, each of which will employ up to 4,000 people during construction.

On Friday, Campbell will lead a nine-bus tour of 495 members of his Real Estate Investors Network to locations in Edmonton, Sherwood Park, Fort Saskatchewan and the "industrial heartland" area -- with lunch at Josephburg, near Fort Saskatchewan.

About half of the participants are coming from beyond Alberta, including a few from outside Canada, Campbell said. This will be his 12th annual tour of the Edmonton, Calgary or Red Deer areas.

"Our goal is to show investors who want to develop or buy properties some of the regions with the best potential for strong equity appreciation," he said.

"We will focus mostly on transportation changes, and show where the jobs are."

Campbell said his advice is based on the work of eight researchers. He does not sell real estate.

"Most of our members are average mom-and-pop investors, for whom we take the hype out of the market," he said.

Campbell also is holding a daylong real-estate investing conference at the Shaw Conference Centre on Saturday, for which 650 delegates have registered.

Campbell said he advises revenue-property investors not to raise rents quickly.

"The relationship with tenants is the most important part of investing," he said. "If you have quality tenants paying decent rent for decent property, there is no need for $500 rent increases."

Campbell said some participants in his tour and conference will be property developers who may build new rental properties -- helping to ease the pressure on rents.

At a similar conference last week in Calgary, where Real Estate Investment Network is based, delegates gave $30,000 to the Edmonton chapter of Habitat for Humanity, Campbell said. He hopes for similar contributions this Saturday.

Campbell is the author of two best-selling books, Real Estate Investing in Canada and 97 Tips for Canadian Real Estate Investors, with more than 55,000 combined copies in print.

He donates their royalties to Habitat for Humanity.

BEST BETS

Alberta's top places for real estate investment

1. Edmonton

2. Grande Prairie

3. Calgary

4. Red Deer

5. Sturgeon & Strathcona

6. Lacombe

7. Sylvan Lake

8. High River

9. Devon

10. Fort McMurray

Source: Real Estate Investment Network
© The Edmonton Journal 2007

Copyright © 2007 CanWest Interactive, a division of CanWest MediaWorks Publications, Inc.. All rights reserved.