Multiculturalism in Canada

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Vancouver is overwhelmingly white culture whenever I visit from Toronto. Chinese second place. It's kind of boring actually.

Visible minority population in the Toronto CMA (2011): 47%
Vancouver CMA: 45.2%

Keep in mind that about 2% of the Vancouver CMA is of aboriginal ancestry, which is higher than in TO...

So, the percentage of whites in both CMAs is roughly equal.

Again...perception/reality.

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2...l/tbl2-eng.cfm

[urbandreamer]

I'm that guy on the subway asking for spare change to buy a bacon mcCrack.

[BretttheRiderFan]

That guy who smells bad, stares too long at women, and we all like to avoid? Gotcha

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

That guy who smells bad, stares too long at women, and we all like to avoid? Gotcha

You seem to be confusing urbandreamer with an immgrant from France.

[urbandreamer]

I can smell a troll from the 407.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I can smell a troll from the 407.

Those 407 trolls are ridiculous! Oh, wait ...

[urbandreamer]

The 407 is kind of like this thread: deserted.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I know this isn't your point, but this makes it sound like racism or even "nativism" are primarily the domain of white people.

Lots of people of all stripes around the world find lots of reasons to hate people who are different from them. Most of the time it has nothing to do with a fear that their traditional "master of the universe" privileges are slipping away from them.

Seriously? I thought the reason the Hutu were mass-lynching the Tutsi was that the Tutsi were black. Now you're forcing me to revisit my world view. Damn you

[lio45]

Originally Posted by rousseau

Your obsessive insinuations that Acajack is a retrograde nativist xenophobe is just trolling, and is a distraction in what has otherwise been a pretty interesting debate. He's obviously not. He's just raising interesting questions that sometimes challenge the politically correct orthodoxy that you espouse.

That you find what he's saying so intolerable is actually one component of what this debate is about.

Brett is literally a card-carrying member of the Federal Liberals. He's that caricature, except for real. When you keep that in mind, his posts "make sense" (i.e. are not actual trolling).


P.S. you're not going to answer the sleep-deprived nut who specifically called you a piece of shit? Thought you'd have a few choice words for him.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by lio45

Seriously? I thought the reason the Hutu were mass-lynching the Tutsi was that the Tutsi were black. Now you're forcing me to revisit my world view. Damn you

Another lovely legacy of a divide and conquer colonial policy.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by lio45

Brett is literally a card-carrying member of the Federal Liberals. He's that caricature, except for real. When you keep that in mind, his posts "make sense" (i.e. are not actual trolling).


P.S. you're not going to answer the sleep-deprived nut who specifically called you a piece of shit? Thought you'd have a few choice words for him.

What caricature? As stated previously, my views on this are essentially lockstep with Stephen Harper, Jean Chrétien, Brian Mulroney or Justin Trudeau. This isn't a partisan issue as there's very little room between the parties on multiculturalism.

(And unfortunately I don't carry a card! Would love to get a hold of one though )

[lio45]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Visible minority population in the Toronto CMA (2011): 47%
Vancouver CMA: 45.2%

Keep in mind that about 2% of the Vancouver CMA is of aboriginal ancestry, which is higher than in TO...

So, the percentage of whites in both CMAs is roughly equal.

Again...perception/reality.

http://www12.statcan.gc.ca/nhs-enm/2...l/tbl2-eng.cfm

Actually, he may be right -- all that's required for him to be right is for Vancouver's East Asian community to be very discreet and self-centered. Given that the South Asians seem to be concentrated in Surrey, it's very possible that downtown Vancouver feels culturally pretty white by Toronto standards.

The conclusions one can draw from raw data are very limited, and experience on the ground is sometimes superior to data -- for example, data like yours will tell us that a random little American town that hasn't had a single immigrant in decades is very "multicultural" (half white, half vismin) as long as half the town is blacks.

If you visit, though, you'll find that town to be pretty monocultural, and that its diversity on paper is actually only skin-deep (literally).

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by lio45

Actually, he may be right -- all that's required for him to be right is for Vancouver's East Asian community to be very discreet and self-centered. Given that the South Asians seem to be concentrated in Surrey, it's very possible that downtown Vancouver feels culturally pretty white by Toronto standards.

The conclusions one can draw from raw data are very limited, and experience on the ground is sometimes superior to data -- for example, data like yours will tell us that a random little American town that hasn't had a single immigrant in decades is very "multicultural" (half white, half vismin) as long as half the town is blacks.

If you visit, though, you'll find that town to be pretty monocultural, and that its diversity on paper is actually only skin-deep (literally).

He's not right, because he mentioned how "white culture dominates" in Vancouver as opposed to Toronto. Stats show that the white populations are essentially equal in both CMAs.

Obviously, the nonwhite population is more diverse (and in his words, interesting) in the GTA, but my comment was a response to his notion that Vancouver is much more white, which is obviously inaccurate.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Another lovely legacy of a divide and conquer colonial policy.

Yep, it's well known that there hadn't been any wars or killings on this planet before colonialism started.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by lio45

The conclusions one can draw from raw data are very limited, and experience on the ground is sometimes superior to data -- for example, data like yours will tell us that a random little American town that hasn't had a single immigrant in decades is very "multicultural" (half white, half vismin) as long as half the town is blacks.

If you visit, though, you'll find that town to be pretty monocultural, and that its diversity on paper is actually only skin-deep (literally).

That's not how it works at all.

A small town that's roughly equally split between just two ethic groups isn't very multicultural at all.

Multicultural doesn't just mean "anything that's not white", despite what many critics of multiculturalism might imply.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

He's not right, because he mentioned how "white culture dominates" in Vancouver as opposed to Toronto. Stats show that the white populations are essentially equal in both CMAs.

Obviously, the nonwhite population is more diverse (and in his words, interesting) in the GTA, but my comment was a response to his notion that Vancouver is much more white, which is obviously inaccurate.

Who cares about the white populations? He said "white culture dominates" in Vancouver.

Imagine two towns of equal population, and each of these towns is half WASPs, half Mexicans.

In the first town, the entire city council and mayor are white; all federal/state politicians are white; all policemen are white; all doctors are white; all the richest citizens and landowners are white. The Hispanic 50% is still there, though. The two groups aren't hostile to each other, but haven't merged.

In the second town, the entire city council and mayor are Hispanic; all federal/state politicians are Hispanic; all policemen are Hispanic; all doctors are Hispanic; all the richest citizens and landowners are Hispanic. The white 50% is still there, though. The two groups aren't hostile to each other, but haven't merged.

You don't find it evident that there'll be a major difference in which culture dominates which town?

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by lio45

Yep, it's well known that there hadn't been any wars or killings on this planet before colonialism started.

Please don't imply that I have certain views that I haven't expressed in any way.

My comment was specifically discussing the Hutu/Tutsi conflict, which had most of its modern roots in Belgian colonial policies. A great example of the types of divide and conquer governance taken to the extreme.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by lio45

Who cares about the white populations? He said "white culture dominates" in Vancouver.

Imagine two towns of equal population, and each of these towns is half WASPs, half Mexicans.

In the first town, the entire city council and mayor are white; all federal/state politicians are white; all policemen are white; all doctors are white; all the richest citizens and landowners are white. The Hispanic 50% is still there, though. The two groups aren't hostile to each other, but haven't merged.

In the second town, the entire city council and mayor are Hispanic; all federal/state politicians are Hispanic; all policemen are Hispanic; all doctors are Hispanic; all the richest citizens and landowners are Hispanic. The white 50% is still there, though. The two groups aren't hostile to each other, but haven't merged.

You don't find it evident that there'll be a major difference in which culture dominates which town?

I don't think either town is comparable to Toronto or Vancouver's realities.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

What caricature? As stated previously, my views on this are essentially lockstep with Stephen Harper, Jean Chrétien, Brian Mulroney or Justin Trudeau. This isn't a partisan issue as there's very little room between the parties on multiculturalism.

(And unfortunately I don't carry a card! Would love to get a hold of one though )

Still waiting for a response as to which caricature I meet.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Standard practice around the world (with the glaring exception of the United States) is that income earned outside the country by citizens isn't taxable in the country. Canada is one of those places. It can result in some bizarre circumstances, like you see in the lower mainland, but bringing in some regressive measure to try to remedy that would be very damaging to Canadians in the long run.

BTW, that wasn't someone123's point. The point is to inform Aylmer that the data he considers the be all end all is actually pretty flawed. On paper, some of these Vancouver-area Chinese are poor who in real world are not (at all).

The only (and easy) thing to "remedy" here isn't to try to tax immigrants' incomes outside Canada, it is to avoid having absolute faith in data telling us they are poor because we happen to not be tracking their incomes.