Wanting Nice Things and Discrimination

[BretttheRiderFan]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

Why waste time arguing with you when I know you'll never care or listen to what I have to say?

I don't recall arguing with you?

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Something really needs to be done about the riff-raff and meth heads that congregate in front of Commerce Place and the CIBC. I've seen them harass people waiting for a bus, people going into Commerce, and passersby. Earlier this week there was one guy who was yelling at everyone around him and acting very aggressive. Sometimes a large group of them will gather at the seating in front of CIBC, making it hard for people to pass by; and sometimes a similar gather will happen in front of the State & Main. I've seen the odd scrap between two neck-tattooed douches. And it probably won't be long until someone in the vicinity get knifed.

[Coldrsx]

This area is very well known to all involved and being worked on by private security and EPS. It is disgraceful and certainly a real safety issue.

[adam-machiavelli]

What do you propose being done that simply doesn't just move the problem elsewhere?

[technomad]

Option 1, sign this petition for conceal carry in Canada. Any of those animals threatens someone with deadly force, and the problem won't move again...

https://www.change.org/p/justin-trud...mits-in-canada

Option 2, have Alberta Environment classify anyone with a face or neck tattoo as 'big game'. Then make every friday and saturday night hunting season Deer head in the study is so overdone.. a full tattooed hide? Now that's a story!

[adam-machiavelli]

This thread has gone off the rails. Once again I propose deletion.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Safety is an important issue to address if we want to attract more residents, businesses, professionals and investment to downtown. Covering your ears and singing "la la la" is not going to solve anything.

[240glt]

^ so what do you propose ? What's SDM's solution to dealing with the rough looking but generally harmless characters that live and hang around downtown ?

[Hallsy's Toupee]

^
1. For starters, how about more law enforcement? Patrol the streets and be less tolerant of anti-social behavior, slap them with everything from impairment to littering and spitting. The police chief said he hired 40 more downtown cops due to Rogers Place - well Roddy, how about you deploy them for more than just those NHL game nights, huh? I was walking past the aforementioned Commerce Place Jasper Ave entrance earlier this evening and saw 3 EPS officers shaking down a couple of young pasty-faced face-tattooed thugs. Both were in cuffs and a backpack being searched, EPS vehicle doors opened and ready to haul them away. I wanted to do the "I'm not worthy" bows to them cops! Or at least say, "don't be a stranger round these parts".

2. Find out why some places in the city such as the Jasper Ave frontage of Commerce Place are such an attraction for the riff-raff element for the past couple of years then see what solutions are available. Is it the bus stop? The CIBC bank, which has people camped outside on the mornings of welfare day? Tim Hortons? Has Gary Moostoos setup shop inside the Tim Hortons (I've seen him in the vicinity)? The outdoor seating? The 7-11 kitty corner from there? Dwayne's Home? Not sure what they can do, apart from piping in some music from Vivaldi to Tony Orlando to Susan Boyle to keep the loiterers away, or for Commerce Place to open a 2nd security desk at the entrance.

3. As I said before, what greatly helps is more residents, more feet on the street, more office workers and more businesses that don't close up shop after 5 PM. I've been a downtown resident for many years, and I've witnessed a vast difference how busy the downtown streets, eateries and bars are like on the night of a game or a concert, or during parades and festivals, or when there's a string of busy patios on a warm summer night like tonight - then I contrast that with 20 years ago when it truly was Deadmonton and felt more intimidating. Edmonton is on the right path but still has a ways to go.

4. Daytime homeless shelter c/w relevant services. That should be a better alternative than the library or the mall or the streets, yes?

I know I've focused on downtown, but the same things also apply to Old Strathcona (which feels less like a frat boy and stoner haven than in the past), 124 St and Alberta Ave.

[Black Star]

Thanks for putting into words what I know and feel should be done.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by 240glt

^ so what do you propose ? What's SDM's solution to dealing with the rough looking but generally harmless characters that live and hang around downtown ?

Bullshit. I have lived downtown for 30 years. Nothing harmless about this ongoing scourge. Its getting worst and there is next to no enforcement from my minds eye. What are you talking about lol.

[240glt]

Perception is not reality though. the vast majority of these "undesirables" are harmless. I've managed buildings in the downtown for the last seven years, I 've not seen any discernible changes aside for an increase in the down & out population hanging around, and believe me I have seen my share of wild & crazy shit down here, stuff you can only imagine. but I also know a lot of the regular homeless folks. They all have problems but most of them are harmless.

The problem with enforcement is; what are you going to enforce ? So-called "vagrancy" laws have been struck down as unconstitutional all over Canada, and Edmonton is an epicenter of homeless and indigenous activism, and everyone is under the microscope. The cops aren't going to do anything unless a crime is committed. The downtown shelters and day resources have made it clear they're not going anywhere, day shelters where folks can sleep may give some people another option but won't have a material effect on those folks being on the streets.

Edmonton's downtown has always been rough, will continue to be, the pockets will just move around. When they shut the Greyhound/ Transit down those folks that hung out there just dispersed to other areas of the downtown. Building owners like Oxford will make improvements that shuffle people along to other buildings, just as we've seen. That'll continue to happen as other areas develop. We all figured that the disorder issues would creep in all directions, including down to Jasper Avenue and points south, and so it appears that's happening. Shouldn't be anything shocking to anyone, the writing was on the wall when they started to develop the north edge.

[adam-machiavelli]

I now like that this thread exists. It segregates the neo-Nazis, skinheads, social Darwinists, alt-rightists, so-called libertarians, and fatalists into one controlled space. So keep ranting into your dull ideological echo chamber.

[technomad]

Originally Posted by adam-machiavelli

I now like that this thread exists. It segregates the neo-Nazis, skinheads, social Darwinists, alt-rightists, so-called libertarians, and fatalists into one controlled space. So keep ranting into your dull ideological echo chamber.

Ahhh, name calling. The first resort for those with no ideas of their own..

Need you be reminded you specifically asked for solutions that did not 'just move the problem elsewhere'?

Given your choice of user name, I figured you'd have more of a stomach for this sort of thing.. from the mighty wikipedia:

"Machiavellianism" is a widely used negative term to characterize unscrupulous politicians of the sort Machiavelli described most famously in The Prince. Machiavelli described immoral behavior, such as dishonesty and killing innocents, as being normal and effective in politics. He even seemed to endorse it in some situations.

maybe time for a new alias that suits the true you?

[s211]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

^
2. Find out why some places in the city such as the Jasper Ave frontage of Commerce Place are such an attraction for the riff-raff element for the past couple of years then see what solutions are available. Is it the bus stop? The CIBC bank, which has people camped outside on the mornings of welfare day? Tim Hortons? Has Gary Moostoos setup shop inside the Tim Hortons (I've seen him in the vicinity)? The outdoor seating? The 7-11 kitty corner from there? Dwayne's Home? Not sure what they can do, apart from piping in some music from Vivaldi to Tony Orlando to Susan Boyle to keep the loiterers away, or for Commerce Place to open a 2nd security desk at the entrance.

Tim Horton and 7-11 outlets are absolute magnets for loitering. You can add liquor stores to that list too.