Thread of Shibbolleths

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by JHikka

How much of Anglo Canada and how much of the States have you actually traveled to? Honest question.

Enough to know that Canada is essentially a US knockoff outside of quebec.

Canada is america with extremely high cost of living and lower wages and worse job opportunities.

But thats not meant to be the purpose of this discussion, i find Anglo Canada (the parts i've been to are Ontario, BC, Alberta, and Atlantic Canada) to be overall a carbon copy of the US states directly beside the provinces in question. BC for example is nothing but Washington state with a horrible economy and sky high cost of living.

Quebec is the only province in Canada with an identity and cultural all it's own.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Enough to know that Canada is essentially a US knockoff outside of quebec.

Canada is america with extremely high cost of living and lower wages and worse job opportunities.

But thats not meant to be the purpose of this discussion, i find Anglo Canada (the parts i've been to are Ontario, BC, Alberta, and Atlantic Canada) to be overall a carbon copy of the US states directly beside the provinces in question. BC for example is nothing but Washington state with a horrible economy and sky high cost of living.

Quebec is the only province in Canada with an identity and cultural all it's own.

You are wrong.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

You are wrong.

Yeah, not much else to say there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

You are wrong.

That does not really cut it as an effective rebuttal.

Not that I am necessarily fully in agreement with the assertions you are responding to.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That does not really cut it as an effective rebuttal.

Hey, there's the reformulation of Occam's razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" (not that I am a bit fan of Christopher Hitchens, but I think the idea has some merit, because otherwise you can be fooled into believing just about anything). What about if you have just a shred of evidence that is your personal opinion? Can it therefore be dismissed with a similar personal opinion from somebody else? If so, "you are wrong" could be a good rebuttal; it does the job in a lot fewer words.

We are never going to get anywhere arguing over individual opinions of whether or not two places are culturally similar or different. But I can name some important cultural differences between Canada and the US. These apply to pretty much anywhere in the two countries. One difference is that average or poorer people in Canada tend to be much better off, because they are supported by stronger social programs (cheaper tuition, health care), and a more progressive tax system. Conversely wealthy Americans tend to be much wealthier and seem to me to be much more segregated from the rest of society. Go compare a US inner city with a gated golf compound if you want to see a cultural difference! The impact of that difference makes things like accents and pop music seem pretty trivial.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

But I can name some important cultural differences between Canada and the US. These apply to pretty much anywhere in the two countries. One difference is that average or poorer people in Canada tend to be much better off, because they are supported by stronger social programs (cheaper tuition, health care), and a more progressive tax system.

But jmt's point was that the locals in Italy were, somehow, immediately able to tell whether or not the unfashionably-dressed, fat Anglo tourist with the fanny pack had access to cheaper tuition in his college years.

I'm not sure I can agree with that.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

But jmt's point was that the locals in Italy were, somehow, immediately able to tell whether or not the unfashionably-dressed, fat Anglo tourist with the fanny pack had access to cheaper tuition in his college years.

I'm not sure I can agree with that.

Yeah, I wasn't responding to that specific post and I'm not sure I agree either.

However, is this actually important? Quebec has its fanny pack wearers too for example. The fact that they speak a different language makes them easier to pick out, and I do think language alone constitutes a significant difference, but a lot of the essential characteristics of their behaviour are pretty similar.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by someone123

Hey, there's the reformulation of Occam's razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" (not that I am a bit fan of Christopher Hitchens, but I think the idea has some merit, because otherwise you can be fooled into believing just about anything). What about if you have just a shred of evidence that is your personal opinion? Can it therefore be dismissed with a similar personal opinion from somebody else? If so, "you are wrong" could be a good rebuttal; it does the job in a lot fewer words.

We are never going to get anywhere arguing over individual opinions of whether or not two places are culturally similar or different. But I can name some important cultural differences between Canada and the US. These apply to pretty much anywhere in the two countries. One difference is that average or poorer people in Canada tend to be much better off, because they are supported by stronger social programs (cheaper tuition, health care), and a more progressive tax system. Conversely wealthy Americans tend to be much wealthier and seem to me to be much more segregated from the rest of society. Go compare a US inner city with a gated golf compound if you want to see a cultural difference! The impact of that difference makes things like accents and pop music seem pretty trivial.

Not sure if it's really "culture" (for which the definitions vary) but certainly (Anglo-)Canada is different from the U.S. in terms of ethos and mindset. On this I will agree.

[GreaterMontréal]

I think it has to do with the fact that Quebec has a francophone culture.

We have our own Star-System. We have our Capitale-Nationale. Our Premier is called Premier Ministre (prime minister).

Montréal is bilingual and bicultural. 20% of the population is trilingual.

etc...

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

I think it has to do with the fact that Quebec has a francophone culture.

We have our own Star-System. We have our Capitale-Nationale. Our Premier is called Premier Ministre (prime minister).

Montréal is bilingual and bicultural. 20% of the population is trilingual.

etc...

Bilingual and multicultural, surely.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Bilingual and multicultural, surely.

multicultural, but mostly in french and english. that's what I meant

[ssiguy]

The rest of the planet has no issue being able to quickly tell the difference between a Canadian and American.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The rest of the planet has no issue being able to quickly tell the difference between a Canadian and American.

Sorry but that just isn't true.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sorry but that just isn't true.

The only people I've ever had have trouble trlling the difference were from Montreal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

The only people I've ever had have trouble trlling the difference were from Montreal.

You win. Whatever.

[giallo]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The rest of the planet has no issue being able to quickly tell the difference between a Canadian and American.

This is so unbelievably false. If most Brits can't even tell the difference, how do you expect someone from Africa, Asia, South America etc. to? Even most Americans assume you are American until you tell them you're not.

In my 13+ years living abroad, Canadians are always considered Americans first. I can't think of one time* someone went, "Oh, you're Canadian. I can just tell."

*Living in Tainan, Taiwan being the major outlier. The foreign population there was over 50% Canadian, so people would assume anyone speaking American english was Canadian.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by giallo

This is so unbelievably false. If most Brits can't even tell the difference, how do you expect someone from Africa, Asia, South America etc. to? Even most Americans assume you are American until you tell them you're not.

In my 13+ years living abroad, Canadians are always considered Americans first. I can't think of one time* someone went, "Oh, you're Canadian. I can just tell."

*Living in Tainan, Taiwan being the major outlier. The foreign population there was over 50% Canadian, so people would assume anyone speaking American english was Canadian.

As someone with multiple nationalities and also spend allot of time abroad I can collaborate your experience. People simply assume you are American until told otherwise. Some people in say Brazil for example don't even think of the two as different countries, Canada is just a odd extension of America to the north that they never quite understood. Even like you said in America generally people assume you are American until you are not, and when you get talking with the lower demographics people even then sometimes don't really know what to make of it. In my opinion Canada is culturally a extension of America with just a few minor differences that are hard to know about (as someone mentioned) higher cost of living, less constitutional freedoms, shittier economy, more government services, a less militaristic culture (military is so important in the US) and some other minor differences. I cant speak for Quebec though, I never did know what to make of it.

[logan5]

Less freedoms? I thought Canada was a leader in this area.

[cornholio]

Originally Posted by logan5

Less freedoms? I thought Canada was a leader in this area.

Less constitutional freedoms. No free speech in Canada. No right to carry. etc. It goes on from there but those are big ones. Frankly I find Canada pretty repressive. I mean if you want to see freedom come to my birth country of Czech Republic, there you have real freedom (though its being slowly eroded by Brussels over the past 10 years).

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by cornholio

As someone with multiple nationalities and also spend allot of time abroad I can collaborate your experience. People simply assume you are American until told otherwise. Some people in say Brazil for example don't even think of the two as different countries, Canada is just a odd extension of America to the north that they never quite understood. Even like you said in America generally people assume you are American until you are not, and when you get talking with the lower demographics people even then sometimes don't really know what to make of it. In my opinion Canada is culturally a extension of America with just a few minor differences that are hard to know about (as someone mentioned) higher cost of living, less constitutional freedoms, shittier economy, more government services, a less militaristic culture (military is so important in the US) and some other minor differences. I cant speak for Quebec though, I never did know what to make of it.

Ding ding ding. We have a winner.

Honestly the U.S. and anglo Canada should seriously just be the same country.