Thread of Shibbolleths

[Bcasey25raptor]

Originally Posted by JHikka

How much of Anglo Canada and how much of the States have you actually traveled to? Honest question.

Enough to know that Canada is essentially a US knockoff outside of quebec.

Canada is america with extremely high cost of living and lower wages and worse job opportunities.

But thats not meant to be the purpose of this discussion, i find Anglo Canada (the parts i've been to are Ontario, BC, Alberta, and Atlantic Canada) to be overall a carbon copy of the US states directly beside the provinces in question. BC for example is nothing but Washington state with a horrible economy and sky high cost of living.

Quebec is the only province in Canada with an identity and cultural all it's own.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Enough to know that Canada is essentially a US knockoff outside of quebec.

Canada is america with extremely high cost of living and lower wages and worse job opportunities.

But thats not meant to be the purpose of this discussion, i find Anglo Canada (the parts i've been to are Ontario, BC, Alberta, and Atlantic Canada) to be overall a carbon copy of the US states directly beside the provinces in question. BC for example is nothing but Washington state with a horrible economy and sky high cost of living.

Quebec is the only province in Canada with an identity and cultural all it's own.

You are wrong.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

You are wrong.

Yeah, not much else to say there.

[GreaterMontréal]

I think it has to do with the fact that Quebec has a francophone culture.

We have our own Star-System. We have our Capitale-Nationale. Our Premier is called Premier Ministre (prime minister).

Montréal is bilingual and bicultural. 20% of the population is trilingual.

etc...

[ssiguy]

The rest of the planet has no issue being able to quickly tell the difference between a Canadian and American.

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Enough to know that Canada is essentially a US knockoff outside of quebec.

Canada is america with extremely high cost of living and lower wages and worse job opportunities.

But thats not meant to be the purpose of this discussion, i find Anglo Canada (the parts i've been to are Ontario, BC, Alberta, and Atlantic Canada) to be overall a carbon copy of the US states directly beside the provinces in question. BC for example is nothing but Washington state with a horrible economy and sky high cost of living.

Quebec is the only province in Canada with an identity and cultural all it's own.

I get the feeling you have absolutely no idea of what you're actually talking about and what identity and culture actually entail.

Even if, say, the Maritimes are a knockoff of New England, that doesn't mean they're not culturally different with a different identity to Ontario, or Manitoba, or BC. Are they similar to New England? Of course, it's a pretty homogenous area, but they have their own distinct culture and identity and I find it insulting that you even attempt to argue otherwise. Newfoundland is an entirely different kettle of fish and is the closest thing to experiencing Ireland as you'll ever experience without actually going to Ireland. Ontario, and its people, is the embodiment of culture and identity molding and melting into a large geographic area.

I'd love to hear of your experience in Atlantic Canada but I fear it'll be vitriol of how it's a stolen knockoff of New England and how nobody there does anything of any interest because it lacks culture and an identity.

[jmt18325]

Manitoba is one of the most interesting places below the surface, with strong mixes of French, Ukranian, Indigenous, and Icelandic culture that you won't find anywhere else. To say it's exactly like any other place is to deny that through ignorance.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The rest of the planet has no issue being able to quickly tell the difference between a Canadian and American.

Sorry but that just isn't true.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Drybrain

You are wrong.

That does not really cut it as an effective rebuttal.

Not that I am necessarily fully in agreement with the assertions you are responding to.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Sorry but that just isn't true.

The only people I've ever had have trouble trlling the difference were from Montreal.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

The only people I've ever had have trouble trlling the difference were from Montreal.

You win. Whatever.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That does not really cut it as an effective rebuttal.

Hey, there's the reformulation of Occam's razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence" (not that I am a bit fan of Christopher Hitchens, but I think the idea has some merit, because otherwise you can be fooled into believing just about anything). What about if you have just a shred of evidence that is your personal opinion? Can it therefore be dismissed with a similar personal opinion from somebody else? If so, "you are wrong" could be a good rebuttal; it does the job in a lot fewer words.

We are never going to get anywhere arguing over individual opinions of whether or not two places are culturally similar or different. But I can name some important cultural differences between Canada and the US. These apply to pretty much anywhere in the two countries. One difference is that average or poorer people in Canada tend to be much better off, because they are supported by stronger social programs (cheaper tuition, health care), and a more progressive tax system. Conversely wealthy Americans tend to be much wealthier and seem to me to be much more segregated from the rest of society. Go compare a US inner city with a gated golf compound if you want to see a cultural difference! The impact of that difference makes things like accents and pop music seem pretty trivial.

[Drybrain]

Originally Posted by JHikka

I get the feeling you have absolutely no idea of what you're actually talking about and what identity and culture actually entail.

Even if, say, the Maritimes are a knockoff of New England, that doesn't mean they're not culturally different with a different identity to Ontario, or Manitoba, or BC. Are they similar to New England? Of course, it's a pretty homogenous area, but they have their own distinct culture and identity and I find it insulting that you even attempt to argue otherwise. Newfoundland is an entirely different kettle of fish and is the closest thing to experiencing Ireland as you'll ever experience without actually going to Ireland. Ontario, and its people, is the embodiment of culture and identity molding and melting into a large geographic area.

I'd love to hear of your experience in Atlantic Canada but I fear it'll be vitriol of how it's a stolen knockoff of New England and how nobody there does anything of any interest because it lacks culture and an identity.

I guess he means that Quebec is the only place without an obvious analogue in the U.S: the Maritimes have kinship with New England, Ontario with the Great Lakes region, B.C. with the Northwest, etc. (Though he's not even thinking of Newfoundland and the North. When you get into the outports of Newfoundland, things start to get subtly sub-Arctic. Get into Labrador and the territories and you might as well be in a village in Greenland.)

But I mean, who cares? Is Mexico a knock off Southern California? Give me a break. North American cultures, indigenous and European, transcend national boundaries. That doesn't mean the places that fall on the non-America side of the border are cultureless, or mere imitations of whatever's on the other side. That's frankly a dumb, dumb statement.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by someone123

But I can name some important cultural differences between Canada and the US. These apply to pretty much anywhere in the two countries. One difference is that average or poorer people in Canada tend to be much better off, because they are supported by stronger social programs (cheaper tuition, health care), and a more progressive tax system.

But jmt's point was that the locals in Italy were, somehow, immediately able to tell whether or not the unfashionably-dressed, fat Anglo tourist with the fanny pack had access to cheaper tuition in his college years.

I'm not sure I can agree with that.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Bcasey25raptor

Canada is america with extremely high cost of living and lower wages and worse job opportunities.

Your evaluation of the "extremely high cost of living" is really totally Vancouver-centric. Saint John is in Canada too, and you could buy half the city with your typical Vancouver property downpayment.

In fact, based on all the places in New England I'm familiar with, and the exchange rate these years, I would say most New Englanders probably look at Saint John as "America but with an extremely low cost of living".

[giallo]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

The rest of the planet has no issue being able to quickly tell the difference between a Canadian and American.

This is so unbelievably false. If most Brits can't even tell the difference, how do you expect someone from Africa, Asia, South America etc. to? Even most Americans assume you are American until you tell them you're not.

In my 13+ years living abroad, Canadians are always considered Americans first. I can't think of one time* someone went, "Oh, you're Canadian. I can just tell."

*Living in Tainan, Taiwan being the major outlier. The foreign population there was over 50% Canadian, so people would assume anyone speaking American english was Canadian.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by lio45

But jmt's point was that the locals in Italy were, somehow, immediately able to tell whether or not the unfashionably-dressed, fat Anglo tourist with the fanny pack had access to cheaper tuition in his college years.

I'm not sure I can agree with that.

Yeah, I wasn't responding to that specific post and I'm not sure I agree either.

However, is this actually important? Quebec has its fanny pack wearers too for example. The fact that they speak a different language makes them easier to pick out, and I do think language alone constitutes a significant difference, but a lot of the essential characteristics of their behaviour are pretty similar.

[GreaterMontréal]

The average home price in Quebec is lower than in Manitoba. You can buy nice house, big backyard etc, near Montréal for less than $500k.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

I think it has to do with the fact that Quebec has a francophone culture.

We have our own Star-System. We have our Capitale-Nationale. Our Premier is called Premier Ministre (prime minister).

Montréal is bilingual and bicultural. 20% of the population is trilingual.

etc...

Bilingual and multicultural, surely.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Bilingual and multicultural, surely.

multicultural, but mostly in french and english. that's what I meant