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  #21  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 1:22 AM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Wait, significant portions of the LA-SD line are single-tracked? God, this country sucks when it comes to public transit.

A metro of 18 million next to a metro of 3-4 million, the busiest line outside the Northeast Corridor, and we can't even get two tracks? Even in Pakistan or somewhere, I doubt this would happen.

I was just in Zurich, a nothing city compared to San Diego (to say nothing of LA) and I think their main station had something like 40 tracks and about two dozen commuter rail lines, all electrified, all high-frequency, and I think all double-tracked. Their main station makes LA Union Station look like a lonely desert outpost.
This is especially shocking considering that North America had arguably the best railway infrastructure in the world at one time. This is the consequence on focusing almost entirely on automobiles and highways and letting the passenger railway infrastructure fade out of existence for the most part.
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  #22  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 2:12 AM
Lipani Lipani is offline
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
Wait, significant portions of the LA-SD line are single-tracked? God, this country sucks when it comes to public transit.
Yep! It goes back and forth between single and double tracks throughout San Diego County and southern Orange County. As electricron noted, construction is already taking place to double track it in its entirety, although I'm not sure how the tracks along the fragile sea bluffs in Del Mar and San Clemente will be handled (Del Mar has been trying to get a tunnel built for years, to no avail).

And here is part of the route in desperate need of a tunnel. It's single tracked from about Miramar Road to the 805:



Look up Miramar Hill on YouTube and you'll see how atrociously slow the trains go here.

Edit, part of the single track in Del Mar:


Times of San Diego

Last edited by Lipani; Feb 2, 2017 at 2:23 AM.
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  #23  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 8:17 AM
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If a tunnel would be built there, would the old tracks & ROW be sold off? I don't see any stations or goods yards there, so I assume it would. That should net some money, but nowhere near enough to pay for the tunnel, of course.

I see there's a UCSD campus and a VA hospital right by where a tunnel would go - a good place for a station on a commuter line. A bit close to Sorrento Valley station, but putting the station in a tunnel would make a better location possible. Move the station?
Who am I kidding, that'd cost way to much up-front and I'm sure nimbys would stop the construction of more housing in the area that'd make the whole thing a net gain for the economy of the area..
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  #24  
Old Posted Feb 2, 2017, 5:30 PM
Lipani Lipani is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
If a tunnel would be built there, would the old tracks & ROW be sold off? I don't see any stations or goods yards there, so I assume it would. That should net some money, but nowhere near enough to pay for the tunnel, of course.
It'd probably used as open space. There are a lot of good jogging/cycling trails in this area.

Quote:
I see there's a UCSD campus and a VA hospital right by where a tunnel would go - a good place for a station on a commuter line. A bit close to Sorrento Valley station, but putting the station in a tunnel would make a better location possible. Move the station?
Who am I kidding, that'd cost way to much up-front and I'm sure nimbys would stop the construction of more housing in the area that'd make the whole thing a net gain for the economy of the area..
There's a Trolley (light rail) extension being built right now to service UCSD. The line will go from UTC all the way down to the Mexican border.



There have been talks about moving the Sorrento Valley station. It's the most popular Coaster (commuter rail) station, but most people have to get on a shuttle to get to their offices. The area is also designed very poorly; most drivers need to take a left, then a right after the tracks, then another left just to get on the freeway.
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  #25  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2017, 1:08 AM
Car(e)-Free LA Car(e)-Free LA is offline
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If the line were to go under Miramar Hill, where would you locate the station? Pepper Canyon? Voigt Drive? Westfield UTC? Somewhere else?
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  #26  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2017, 4:17 PM
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scalziand scalziand is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
If a tunnel would be built there, would the old tracks & ROW be sold off? I don't see any stations or goods yards there, so I assume it would. That should net some money, but nowhere near enough to pay for the tunnel, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lipani View Post
It'd probably used as open space. There are a lot of good jogging/cycling trails in this area.
There's a spur line with a lot of warehouses on it that runs up Miramar Rd. It's active looking judging by the satellite imagery, so I doubt the old tracks are going anywhere, especially if the new bypass is too steep for freight anyway.
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  #27  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2017, 7:51 PM
Lipani Lipani is offline
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My mistake. I forgot about BNSF's spur line. I used to live near that area and remember hearing about a proposed cycling trail connecting with Sorrento Valley; turns out will be on the west side of I-5. http://www.keepsandiegomoving.com/I-...bike-path.aspx
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  #28  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2017, 10:04 PM
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Instead of stringing wires over the entire route, why not just put the prime mover in the middle of the train? Then a lightweight control cab on each end could qualify for the FRA waiver.
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  #29  
Old Posted Feb 3, 2017, 11:55 PM
ChargerCarl ChargerCarl is offline
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I don't think they need FRA waivers anymore. New regulations allow off the shelf European trainsets to be used.

The benefit of electrification though would be that it will enable these ROWs to be used for potential frequent local service in LA, as well as between LA and SD I think. And as the author pointed out it could save them the cost of having to tunnel under miramar since electric trains could scale the I5 corridor without any issues.

Last edited by ChargerCarl; Feb 4, 2017 at 1:30 AM.
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  #30  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2017, 1:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electricron View Post
Yes, a significant portion was single track, but construction is already underway to double track it. Per the link posted below, downtown San Diego to the Orange County line was 2/3rds complete in 2015. They're spending around $1 Billion to double track inSan Diego County. I don't know how much of the corridor has double tracks in LA and Orange Counties.
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/...y09-story.html
I'm pretty sure LA and northern OC portions are already double tracked. I believe the only part that was single track was south OC (south of Mission Viejo station?) and San Diego county.

And so if the San Diego county portions are already slated to get double track (with allotted funds) then certainly it is quite possible to complete the double track gap and electrification for as little as $800 million. Although I suspect the cost is probably more like $1.2 billion (50% more)

Edit: should have read page 2 before replying... looks like someone already explained it

Last edited by bzcat; Feb 4, 2017 at 1:41 AM.
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  #31  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2017, 5:12 AM
Leo the Dog Leo the Dog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swede View Post
If a tunnel would be built there, would the old tracks & ROW be sold off? I don't see any stations or goods yards there, so I assume it would. That should net some money, but nowhere near enough to pay for the tunnel, of course.


Who am I kidding, that'd cost way to much up-front and I'm sure nimbys would stop the construction of more housing in the area that'd make the whole thing a net gain for the economy of the area..
You just answered your own question, quite accurately I might add.
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  #32  
Old Posted Feb 4, 2017, 7:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lipani View Post
There have been talks about moving the Sorrento Valley station.
Where would the station be moved?
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  #33  
Old Posted Feb 5, 2017, 8:21 PM
Lipani Lipani is offline
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From what I've read, it will either be a bit to the north or the south on the same tracks of the current location. Unfortunately there's no easy fix since Sorrento Valley was designed horribly.
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