Canadian Retail Thread

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Although I wouldn't say The Bay is just or even mostly a Western Canadian thing. They have a pretty large footprint in southern and eastern Ontario.

Historically it was more of a western Canadian thing, before it took over Simpsons.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

When I look at the Weston family's holdings, from lower end retailing in the Loblaws Group to the higher end Selfridges Group, I wonder if they'll ever be tempted to move into the middle to fill the void/provide competition in the department store segment. I bet there is room for innovation and reinvention, I would love to see a bold new concept away from the old legacy stores.

I've always wondered the same thing myself. I could see the Westons attempting to purchase HBC again if the opportunity arises. They actually tried to buy it in 1979 but failed.

Their purchase of Shoppers Drug Mart / Pharmaprix was a bigger deal though as those stores don't really have to worry about competition with online sales and benefit with an aging population.

But back the HBC, if they did own it, they could incorporate parts of HBC products and ideas into their existing stores in places that don't have HBC locations.

[urbandreamer]

Why? HBC will be bankrupt within a decade.

Although I grew up with the Sears Catalogue, I never spent a penny there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Historically it was more of a western Canadian thing, before it took over Simpsons.

Wasn't it Sears that took over Simpsons?

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Why? HBC will be bankrupt within a decade.

Although I grew up with the Sears Catalogue, I never spent a penny there.

HBC as a brand name is very popular and historical enough to survive for a very long time. It's a brand name that is known throughout Canada which includes many remote, Inuit, Indigenous, francophone, etc. places. It's one of the most recognizable brands in Canada.

I do agree that their retails stores as they are now may close. But they could have smaller stores and then be in more places. I would like it to be Canadian owned again.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Wasn't it Sears that took over Simpsons?

I think the old Simpsons-Sears stores were a partnership, not a takeover. The Bay bought Simpsons.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Loco101

HBC as a brand name is very popular and historical enough to survive for a very long time. It's a brand name that is known throughout Canada which includes many remote, Inuit, Indigenous, francophone, etc. places. It's one of the most recognizable brands in Canada.

I do agree that their retails stores as they are now may close. But they could have smaller stores and then be in more places. I would like it to be Canadian owned again.

Today HBC is virtually nonexistent in rural and remote Canada. The Northwest company was spun off several years ago and today it and coop are the major retailers in rural and northern Western Canada. The Northwest company also owns the Giant Tiger franchise on Western Canada. Slightly smaller is Fields. Fields is again a spinoff from HBC.

I think the HBC brand today is very urban.

[SpongeG]

what a great store

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[Loco101]

Originally Posted by casper

Today HBC is virtually nonexistent in rural and remote Canada. The Northwest company was spun off several years ago and today it and coop are the major retailers in rural and northern Western Canada. The Northwest company also owns the Giant Tiger franchise on Western Canada. Slightly smaller is Fields. Fields is again a spinoff from HBC.

I think the HBC brand today is very urban.

I do agree that it is an urban brand today. The company has so much history and operated in so many remote and rural places in the past with trading posts, general stores, etc...

The Northwest Company with their Northern stores is hated by many of the people who live in the far-North of Ontario. Famous for high prices and gouging.

Fields stores existed in quite a few Northern Ontario towns until about 5-7 year ago as they had all been closed.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Loco101

I do agree that it is an urban brand today. The company has so much history and operated in so many remote and rural places in the past with trading posts, general stores, etc...

The Northwest Company with their Northern stores is hated by many of the people who live in the far-North of Ontario. Famous for high prices and gouging.

Fields stores existed in quite a few Northern Ontario towns until about 5-7 year ago as they had all been closed.

Fields is still very active in Western Canada. I believe head-office is somewhere in the Langley or Fraser Valley area.

Not certain the Northwest Company deserves the reputation they have. Perhaps they do. Did just buy a northern airline to try to get a better handle on the logistics costs. In Western Canada they also have the Giant Tiger franchise. They are a little different than the eastern Canadian ones, but still a deep discounter.

The Co-op movement has always been much stronger in the West including in rural and northern locations. Never understood why that did not take root in northern Ontario. You would expect similar buying patters and values.

[SpongeG]

giant tiger has fancy commercials now

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[GeneralLeeTPHLS]

I was at the Erin Mills Sears location (northwest Mississauga) today.....it was a frantic scene that reminded me of Black Friday or Monday or what have you. Clothes and shoes strewn about the place and long lines (taking about 30 mins). The deals are between 10 to 30 percent off (mostly 20%) and I just got one piece of clothing........sad to see Sears close up in the Canadian retail market though I understand why.

[Innsertnamehere]

HBC has a few properties that they have actually spent money on and feel like a truly positive shopping experience, one "worthy" of the brand, but also have a plethora of crappy stores that are exactly like sears. The perfect comparison is between Toronto's Queen Street and Bloor Street stores.. Queen is part of the Eaton centre, is newly renovated in a historic building, and features solid brands in pleasant retail environments. Bloor is in a concrete 1970's bunker, has tiny ceiling heights, and is just generally depressing. Its prime reno potential right on the Yorkville strip, it just needs the money.

A lot of the suburban Hudsons Bays need to be shuttered or gutted.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Why? HBC will be bankrupt within a decade.

Although I grew up with the Sears Catalogue, I never spent a penny there.

I doubt HBC will last much longer - they appear to be losing money at a pretty rapid rate - senior executives are resigning. HBC bought German retailer Kaufhof in 2015 for 2.8 billion euros, and have not been able to turn the struggling retailer around - a bad move.

Over that past 6 months (ended July 29 2017) HBC has an operating loss of over $420 million, which is worse than the loss of just over 200 million during the comparable period in 2016.

[SpongeG]

thats an interesting problem. You mention the bay to most people and they say what a crappy store with boring brands yada yada yada.

Yet if one can go to the downtown Vancouver store or the toronto eaton centre store you can mention how amazing they are. The downtown vancouver store is truly awesome, great brands, great looking, even pretty decent service. I can't speak to the eaton centre toronto store but from what i hear its great too.

So they are going to screw this whole thing up by dragging their feet. they need to shutter or get renovating stores asap, at least one store in every major city to get customers back and excited. I've been to their "flagship" in edmonton at southgate and its awful. The richmond store was renovated and its one of the nicer ones after the downtown one, and way nicer than most other locations, so they know what they are doing as far as renovating and getting some good things going in their stores but they aren\t doing anything. I really hate to see them screw it up.

[casper]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

thats an interesting problem. You mention the bay to most people and they say what a crappy store with boring brands yada yada yada.

Yet if one can go to the downtown Vancouver store or the toronto eaton centre store you can mention how amazing they are. The downtown vancouver store is truly awesome, great brands, great looking, even pretty decent service. I can't speak to the eaton centre toronto store but from what i hear its great too.

So they are going to screw this whole thing up by dragging their feet. they need to shutter or get renovating stores asap, at least one store in every major city to get customers back and excited. I've been to their "flagship" in edmonton at southgate and its awful. The richmond store was renovated and its one of the nicer ones after the downtown one, and way nicer than most other locations, so they know what they are doing as far as renovating and getting some good things going in their stores but they aren\t doing anything. I really hate to see them screw it up.

I think they still own the Zellers brand. Perhaps its time to use the Hudson Bay brand for the flagship stores. The smaller or more suburban stores that do not justify the remodel can be flipped over to that Brand. The Lougheed mall Bay is a weird place to go into. Half the store feels like a winners more than anything else.

[begratto]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

thats an interesting problem. You mention the bay to most people and they say what a crappy store with boring brands yada yada yada.

Yet if one can go to the downtown Vancouver store or the toronto eaton centre store you can mention how amazing they are. The downtown vancouver store is truly awesome, great brands, great looking, even pretty decent service. I can't speak to the eaton centre toronto store but from what i hear its great too.

So they are going to screw this whole thing up by dragging their feet. they need to shutter or get renovating stores asap, at least one store in every major city to get customers back and excited. I've been to their "flagship" in edmonton at southgate and its awful. The richmond store was renovated and its one of the nicer ones after the downtown one, and way nicer than most other locations, so they know what they are doing as far as renovating and getting some good things going in their stores but they aren\t doing anything. I really hate to see them screw it up.

It would probably helped if HBC branded its renovated stores differently from the crappy ones. Similar to what IGA and Metro do in Quebec (maybe elsewhere too?) : IGA has IGA extra stores and Metro has Metro plus that they use for their better looking, better stocked grocery stores. If you go to one of those you know the service will be better too.

To differenciate their stores, I could imagine HBC using the "Hudson's Bay company" brand for their renovated, better looking stores and simply HBC for the other ones, for example.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by casper

I think they still own the Zellers brand. Perhaps its time to use the Hudson Bay brand for the flagship stores. The smaller or more suburban stores that do not justify the remodel can be flipped over to that Brand. The Lougheed mall Bay is a weird place to go into. Half the store feels like a winners more than anything else.

I don't think Zellers is coming back. People are more nostalgic for Target than they are for Zellers.

I don't think the retail apocalypse is over yet.

[WhipperSnapper]

The old Zellers isn't coming back. They could move forward and expand on the new Zellers which is The Bay's liquidation store that could be improved into a Winners

[casper]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

The old Zellers isn't coming back. They could move forward and expand on the new Zellers which is The Bay's liquidation store that could be improved into a Winners

Not certain about all the suburban Bay stores. The Lougheed Mall one is suburban Vancouver feels more like a Winners store that anything else.