Whats up with our Skytrain cars...

usog · #1 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 1:40 AM**

Been bugging me ever since I got back from Japan. Now, whenever I ride the skytrain it seem so slow, especially in certain parts such as Main-Stadium and Gateway-Surrey Central. I know they have a fairly high design limit but they also have a fairly high acceleration, so why are they running so slow? Especially in the long stretches such as 22nd-New West. Every minute they squeeze off the travel time not only increases overall system capacity, but makes it a more desirable option since it gets people there faster. Are the speeds due to safety issues or is the system designed like this? Maybe they should look into refitting the tracks to decrease travel time.

Also, the interiors are really unpractical. They really should decide whether skytrain will be a short-distance or long-distance thing. The layout seems to be for some weird mixture since they have lots of seats but they aren't even very comfortable or practical while they also seem to be trying to maximize standing space with their weird way of shoe-horning the seats in. Either go all-out and make it like a commuter train or make all the seats inward facing like on other Subways. They don't even have handles for people standing.

Oh and our trains are noisy as hell. The cars seem to be really poorly insulated since you can feel the wind when you stand next to the door.

Just a few cents, really curious about this. Its been 10 years already, aren't we due for a MKIII? >.>"

osirisboy · #2 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 1:57 AM**

ugh not another "why cant vancouver be like japan" (or any other asian place) thread.

usog · #3 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 1:59 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by osirisboy

ugh not another "why cant vancouver be like japan" (or any other asian place) thread.

Not just Japan, more like every other bloody metro. Way to read beyond the first sentence. I also happened to be in Hong Kong and Beijing but my last point was Japan. Oh and that reminded me that Beijing Airport Line also uses the same bombardier stuff that we do and it looks so different =\

CBeats · #4 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 2:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by usog

Not just Japan, more like every other bloody metro. Way to read beyond the first sentence. I also happened to be in Hong Kong and Beijing but my last point was Japan. Oh and that reminded me that Beijing Airport Line also uses the same bombardier stuff that we do and it looks so different =\

Well you better not include the NYC Subway - that is a disaster compared to what you just described about our skytrain.

usog · #5 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 2:08 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by CBeats

Well you better not include the NYC Subway - that is a disaster compared to what you just described about our skytrain.

Meh, I stand corrected <.<" But seriously, I'm just curious about this. Not like saying we should carbon-copy other systems, but why skytrain is made the way it is. I have no clue, which is why I'm asking -__-"

M II A II R II K · #6 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 2:09 AM**

We're still stuck with the MK1's. They are narrow but at least they go up to 80 kph for most of the ride.

Alex Mackinnon · #7 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 2:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by usog

Been bugging me ever since I got back from Japan. Now, whenever I ride the skytrain it seem so slow, especially in certain parts such as Main-Stadium and Gateway-Surrey Central. I know they have a fairly high design limit but they also have a fairly high acceleration, so why are they running so slow? Especially in the long stretches such as 22nd-New West. Every minute they squeeze off the travel time not only increases overall system capacity, but makes it a more desirable option since it gets people there faster. Are the speeds due to safety issues or is the system designed like this? Maybe they should look into refitting the tracks to decrease travel time.

Also, the interiors are really unpractical. They really should decide whether skytrain will be a short-distance or long-distance thing. The layout seems to be for some weird mixture since they have lots of seats but they aren't even very comfortable or practical while they also seem to be trying to maximize standing space with their weird way of shoe-horning the seats in. Either go all-out and make it like a commuter train or make all the seats inward facing like on other Subways. They don't even have handles for people standing.

Oh and our trains are noisy as hell. The cars seem to be really poorly insulated since you can feel the wind when you stand next to the door.

Just a few cents, really curious about this. Its been 10 years already, aren't we due for a MKIII? >.>"

Actually the Stadium-Main issue isn't a safety problem, its a NIMBY noise problem.

mr.x · #8 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 3:23 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by usog

Been bugging me ever since I got back from Japan. Now, whenever I ride the skytrain it seem so slow, especially in certain parts such as Main-Stadium and Gateway-Surrey Central. I know they have a fairly high design limit but they also have a fairly high acceleration, so why are they running so slow? Especially in the long stretches such as 22nd-New West. Every minute they squeeze off the travel time not only increases overall system capacity, but makes it a more desirable option since it gets people there faster. Are the speeds due to safety issues or is the system designed like this? Maybe they should look into refitting the tracks to decrease travel time.

Also, the interiors are really unpractical. They really should decide whether skytrain will be a short-distance or long-distance thing. The layout seems to be for some weird mixture since they have lots of seats but they aren't even very comfortable or practical while they also seem to be trying to maximize standing space with their weird way of shoe-horning the seats in. Either go all-out and make it like a commuter train or make all the seats inward facing like on other Subways. They don't even have handles for people standing.

Oh and our trains are noisy as hell. The cars seem to be really poorly insulated since you can feel the wind when you stand next to the door.

Just a few cents, really curious about this. Its been 10 years already, aren't we due for a MKIII? >.>"

I know for one thing that the long Main Street Station section has been slowed down due to noise bothering condo residents, despite SkyTrain being there long before the condos. Somehow, Translink backed down and surely that sets terrible precedent.

As for the interiors, agreed. But the new Mark II trains we're receiving this year and the next have a much better interior, there's more standing space by reducing half a row of seats and there are more bars to hold onto.

And as for noise, it has to do with the fact that the trains are both lightweight being built with aluminum and compared to real metro trains the shell is quite thin.

REX · #9 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 4:53 AM**

When do the new MKII's go into service?

mr.x · #10 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 4:58 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by REX

When do the new MKII's go into service?

The first cars supposedly sometime next month.

hollywoodnorth · #11 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 5:08 AM**

there are TRACK switches in the main street area

that's the reason for the slowdown not NIMBY's as it speads up at the end of the City Gate row.....like where the newer towers are.....how come they are not NIMBYing up and slowing down the train there? because it NEVER happened in the 1st place

usog · #12 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 5:12 AM**

Mmm, do the tracks really require them to slow down that much? Is it because of the special technology of the Skytrain or what since we all know you can run over switches at high speed on normal rail =\ And yeah I guess a lot of the slow stretches are when they are running over switches.

And even if its thin you'd still expect some form of noise-reduction and tighter insulation. Like, on other trains you can hear a lot of noise from the station until the doors close and then you can't hear any outside noise. I can see gaps around the doors on our skytrain. Wonder how much noise you would lose if they were actually sealed when closed.

jlousa · #13 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 5:18 AM**

Hollywoodnorth, you are correct about the switches being right there, the fact the switches are there is what was causing the noise that lead to the complaints which slowed down the trains. There are switches all along the line and the trains do not slow down for them (ie just west of Nanaimo station). So yes it's due to the switch but it's not because of it.

usog · #14 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 5:30 AM**

Hmm, but two other really slow stretches(Columbia->New West and Gateway->Surrey Central) also involve running over switches and aren't exactly in places where the noise would bug people.

agrant · #15 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 5:36 AM**

The MK1s seem to be pretty noisy. The MK2s aren't that bad.

nname · #16 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 6:18 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by usog

Especially in the long stretches such as 22nd-New West.

That stretch has a lot of curves, so I don't think it can go really fast.. but still, I don't think its too slow for that stretch. The distance between the stations is 2.9km, and the travel time is 3.0min (including stopping time) or 2.7min (without stopping time), so the average speed would be 58km/h or 67km/h with or without stopping time.. which means the top speed should be really close to 80km/h even with all the curves. Well.. unless you mean skytrain should go faster than 80km/h..

usog · #17 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 6:24 AM**

Well apparently the Beijing Airport line hits 115km/h although I don't expect *that* high since that one is just one long line. And according to wikipedia the cars have "steerable axles" or something like that...? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombard..._Rapid_Transit

Vancity · #18 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 7:37 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr.x

The first cars supposedly sometime next month.

Nice. I'm looking forward to the MKII's going into service. I don't know. I'm not complaining about our Skytrain not going faster. 80km/h is pretty fast as it is already, and in fact, that is how fast the C-Line trains are going to travel all throughout the Vancouver-Richmond line. I dunno...I'm satisfied with their speed. I'm not sure if it would be wise for the trains to go any faster than that (100km/h?).

metroXpress · #19 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 2:21 PM**

^ As long as the line is straight....I think it would be fine to go 100+...it would be even better when it's underground !

mr.x · #20 Posted **Apr 26, 2009, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vancity

Nice. I'm looking forward to the MKII's going into service. I don't know. I'm not complaining about our Skytrain not going faster. 80km/h is pretty fast as it is already, and in fact, that is how fast the C-Line trains are going to travel all throughout the Vancouver-Richmond line. I dunno...I'm satisfied with their speed. I'm not sure if it would be wise for the trains to go any faster than that (100km/h?).

80 km/h is the standard max. speed for most metro lines, even the HK MTR trains. The MK I's and Canada Line Rotems have a max. design speed of 80 km/h, the MK II's are at 90 km/h.