Trans Canada Highway Twinning: Segments U/C - Page 85

craner · #**1681** Posted **Aug 15, 2019, 4:27 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

I'm sure this has been addressed in this thread before, but can I say how unbelievably awful Hwy 1 is from Chilliwack to Surrey? At this point, it's a national embarrassment.

As long as I've been alive (and since way before that, in 1964), the TCH has been two lanes each way between Chilliwack and Surrey. Since then, the Vancouver/Abbotsford metro areas have grown by close to two million people, and the highway had remained unchanged. In 2009, the provincial and federal government expanded the highway to four lanes (around six kms long) each way in Surrey, leading up to the new Portmann Bridge, but the ever-growing area between Hope and Langley remained unchanged.

For the past decade, that stretch of highway has been a completely nightmare. Clogged with commercial trucks leaving the ports, commuters and tourists, just someone slamming on their brakes can have a ripple affect that can cause the road to grid to a halt. Depending on how bad an accident is, the TCH can become a parking lot for well beyond an hour. What used to be a four hour drive to Kelowna, will often take up to five hours in decent conditions. Way longer is there's an accident.....and there's always an accident.

So imagine my joy when I saw construction taking place along the Surrey portion this summer. And imagine my utter disappointment when I realized it was a single HOV lane on each side for only six kilometers. These two HOV lanes will be completed in 2026.

I'm no advocate to massive road expansions, but this is ridiculous. THE national highway of our country that goes in to the third largest metro area, and serves one of the most important and busiest ports on the continent will have three lanes each way by 2026, and only for six kilometers. By that time, there will be another 250,000 in the duel metro areas, and most of those people will be living the cities of Surrey, Langley, Abbotsford and Chilliwack.

I'm curious about other metro area horror stories regarding the TCH. Is it as bad as what we have in Metro Vancouver? Have any of you living outside of Vancouver/BC had the displeasure of driving this stretch of road in the past few years?

^Great post.

It really is shamefull.

Bobert · #**1682** Posted **Aug 17, 2019, 1:08 AM**

The worst thing about that stretch of the TCH is just how easy it would be to expand. Probably the simplest highway to upgrade in BC.

The RoW is there, and most of the obstructions are earthern hills or small depressions.

che4ef · #**1683** Posted **Aug 17, 2019, 4:13 AM**

Quote:

The worst thing about that stretch of the TCH is just how easy it would be to expand. Probably the simplest highway to upgrade in BC.

The RoW is there, and most of the obstructions are earthern hills or small depressions.

Yep, you both are so correct. Unfortunately if it is not connected to homelessness or addiction problems it is not going to proceed. They are more like non profit organisation instead of being builders . Everything that is under construction is planned and contracted and budged by the previous government. We will not see anything major in the next two years for sure. Interior votes for liberals so who cares, it is NDP. It was mentioned before how political the things are in BC. Not the way to build.
Just came back from Banff and Jasper btw. Pure embaresment is how to describe TCH. Which party gets elected in Canada is decided mainly by Ontario and Quebec. The only reason to develop infrastructure in BC (the west gateway) is Vancouver Port. Everything else is irrelevant. Only one major local force in BC that can make things happen is The Real Estate.

Metro-One · #**1684** Posted **Aug 18, 2019, 4:39 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

I'm sure this has been addressed in this thread before, but can I say how unbelievably awful Hwy 1 is from Chilliwack to Surrey? At this point, it's a national embarrassment.

As long as I've been alive (and since way before that, in 1964), the TCH has been two lanes each way between Chilliwack and Surrey. Since then, the Vancouver/Abbotsford metro areas have grown by close to two million people, and the highway had remained unchanged. In 2009, the provincial and federal government expanded the highway to four lanes (around six kms long) each way in Surrey, leading up to the new Portmann Bridge, but the ever-growing area between Hope and Langley remained unchanged.

For the past decade, that stretch of highway has been a completely nightmare. Clogged with commercial trucks leaving the ports, commuters and tourists, just someone slamming on their brakes can have a ripple affect that can cause the road to grid to a halt. Depending on how bad an accident is, the TCH can become a parking lot for well beyond an hour. What used to be a four hour drive to Kelowna, will often take up to five hours in decent conditions. Way longer is there's an accident.....and there's always an accident.

So imagine my joy when I saw construction taking place along the Surrey portion this summer. And imagine my utter disappointment when I realized it was a single HOV lane on each side for only six kilometers. These two HOV lanes will be completed in 2026.

I'm no advocate to massive road expansions, but this is ridiculous. THE national highway of our country that goes in to the third largest metro area, and serves one of the most important and busiest ports on the continent will have three lanes each way by 2026, and only for six kilometers. By that time, there will be another 250,000 in the duel metro areas, and most of those people will be living the cities of Surrey, Langley, Abbotsford and Chilliwack.

I'm curious about other metro area horror stories regarding the TCH. Is it as bad as what we have in Metro Vancouver? Have any of you living outside of Vancouver/BC had the displeasure of driving this stretch of road in the past few years?

Yeah, originally the new third lane was going to be general purpose, but after stalling the project for a year the only way the NDP could let it go forward given their base was to make it an HOV lane. Still better than nothing, but not sure how it will tie into the current 6 landing between 200th and the new 216th interchange (which was also started under the assumption of being a general purpose lane). To be exact it is 10km of 6 landing to 264th, but the point still stands it should be done at least all the way to Abbotsford in a single project.

The #1 should be 6 general purpose lanes between Chilliwack and Abbotsford and 6 general purpose and 2 HOV from Abbotsford west.

someone123 · #**1685** Posted **Aug 18, 2019, 4:52 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

I'm no advocate to massive road expansions, but this is ridiculous. THE national highway of our country that goes in to the third largest metro area, and serves one of the most important and busiest ports on the continent will have three lanes each way by 2026, and only for six kilometers. By that time, there will be another 250,000 in the duel metro areas, and most of those people will be living the cities of Surrey, Langley, Abbotsford and Chilliwack.

Induced demand! Tear up the highways! If they build more lanes there will just be more cars and we'll be worse off than before!

Aside from being horribly congested this stretch is dangerous. I was in a pileup on it once. All of the cars were stopped and an inattentive driver flew at full speed into the stopped cars, causing damage to 4 in a row. I've seen multiple cases where drivers flew off onto the shoulder because they didn't have time to stop.

BC's solution to this problem will be to admit defeat and enact variable speed limits along highway 1. So the highway might be 70 km/h or 50 km/h sometimes. Necessary for safety reasons, but only given the underlying inadequate infrastructure.

Corndogger · #**1686** Posted **Aug 18, 2019, 6:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by someone123

Induced demand! Tear up the highways! If they build more lanes there will just be more cars and we'll be worse off than before!

Aside from being horribly congested this stretch is dangerous. I was in a pileup on it once. All of the cars were stopped and an inattentive driver flew at full speed into the stopped cars, causing damage to 4 in a row. I've seen multiple cases where drivers flew off onto the shoulder because they didn't have time to stop.

BC's solution to this problem will be to admit defeat and enact variable speed limits along highway 1. So the highway might be 70 km/h or 50 km/h sometimes. Necessary for safety reasons, but only given the underlying inadequate infrastructure.

Are the majority of people in the lower mainland opposed to building more road capacity, especially freeways? To me it seems like traffic congestion is the number one issue of people who live there. If not #1, close to it. If the NDP were to build what the Liberals said they were going to do where would the people who oppose road expansion go? I highly doubt the Greens could win an election on their own. And IIRC the projects the Liberals proposed contained some significant transit components.

Metro-One · #**1687** Posted **Aug 18, 2019, 6:36 AM**

The valley is very much for freeway expansion. As are large areas of Metro Vancouver, essentially everywhere except Vancouver, New West, and Burnaby.

Marshal · #**1688** Posted **Aug 18, 2019, 8:03 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

The #1 should be 6 general purpose lanes between Chilliwack and Abbotsford and 6 general purpose and 2 HOV from Abbotsford west.

This is reasonable for where we are at present. I do not support overbuilt highways (the Liberal proposal for the Deas Island bridge was over-scaled), but the Lower Mainland is long overdue for some expansion to simply and reasonably serve the current population and state of economic activity. No region of 3 million (3.8 million including the Island) people should be connected to the rest of the country with 4-8 lanes (HWY 1, 7 & 99) of pavement.

For the current population, you could probably add another general purpose lane to the whole length of Metro-One's scheme: 10 total lanes from CoV to 200th St Langley; 8 total lanes from 200th St Langley to Chilliwack; and 6 total lanes to Hope/Coquihalla....... and, Hwy 1 on the North Shore should be 6 total lanes.

Also: Laugheed Hwy should be 6 total lanes + a bypass to east of Maple Ridge; and 4 total to the Agassiz Bridge; the Mary Hill and the SFPR should be full freeway; Hwy 91 should be 6 total lanes; Hwy 99 should be 8 total lanes from CoV to the SFPR interchange, and 6 total lanes to the border.

I could add more but that is enough to make the point, which is: this list would shock most Vancouverites if it were proposed in any form over almost any time frame - BUT - all done, it would simply give us a reasonable road network, at a reasonable scale, still far below what an equivalent American city might have already had for 30 years.

AND, you can be a public transit/train proponent and understand that proper roads are a necessary part of the equation. Cars are not going away, they are just becoming electric, etc. You should also be able to be an NDP supporter/politician, and accept this as reality in its true manifestation. You should be able to want this, and also want Skytrain to UBC, Skytrain from Dtn out Hastings/down Granville, a crosstown line, West Coast Express on both north and south shores of the river to Mission and Chilliwack, and green technologies, and so on . . . .

When we talk about things being too political in BC (it's the same in Quebec and Ontario - they just have more realpolitik), we really mean things are too extreme/black and white, all or nothing. In other words 'stupid.'

Marshal · #**1689** Posted **Aug 18, 2019, 8:25 AM**

Damn, I almost forgot: connect the damn Patullo to Hwy 1!

I just got back from Bergen in Norway. They have a network of freeways that are largely tunneled beneath the city to where they need to go. Now, I know Norway has cash to burn, and there is a toll system, but check out this city's road network . . . all for a regional population similar to Victoria's, in a country with a population similar to BC's.

GlassCity · #**1690** Posted **Aug 18, 2019, 5:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, originally the new third lane was going to be general purpose, but after stalling the project for a year the only way the NDP could let it go forward given their base was to make it an HOV lane. Still better than nothing, but not sure how it will tie into the current 6 landing between 200th and the new 216th interchange (which was also started under the assumption of being a general purpose lane). To be exact it is 10km of 6 landing to 264th, but the point still stands it should be done at least all the way to Abbotsford in a single project.

The #1 should be 6 general purpose lanes between Chilliwack and Abbotsford and 6 general purpose and 2 HOV from Abbotsford west.

So the expansion from 200 Street to 216 will be HOV lanes? Because the drawings on the provincial website still show them to be general purpose. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/t...highway1-216th

I know they're slow to update the website so I'm asking honestly.

ssiguy · #**1691** Posted **Aug 19, 2019, 4:31 AM**

BC and it's elitist planners {who would get a nose bleed if they had to venture east of Main Street} still cannot comphrehend the fact that important cities do not strive for excellent transit systems but rather excellent TRANSPORTATION systems. Transit is a big part of that but transportation is a system and like all systems they are only as good as their weakest point and needless to say, BC's highway system is Mickey Mouse territory.

Not only is the Lower Mainland chocked in traffic but many of the highways are downright dangerous as the roads are built to minimal standards with many having no ramps, merging freeway lanes that would be illegal in much of the country, and traffic so bad and roads so thin that accidents are getting worse and costing more lives, damage, and much worse traffic because first responders are having a hard time accessing them.

What other city has 5 lanes merging into 1 on a freeway during rush hour or it's only major North/South trucking route from the US to TCH is only 4 lanes, has 14 traffic lights {3 of which are at the base of very steep hills and no climbing lanes}, goes by 2 schools, a firestation, right thru a town core, is commonly used by farming tracktors, not a single overpass, and warns drivers & trucks to slow down to 50km/hour when "children are playing on the highway"?

Metro-One · #**1692** Posted **Aug 19, 2019, 3:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlassCity

So the expansion from 200 Street to 216 will be HOV lanes? Because the drawings on the provincial website still show them to be general purpose. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/t...highway1-216th

I know they're slow to update the website so I'm asking honestly.

They will have to be, given that it would make no sense to have the new HOV lanes start at 264th and end at 216th just to start at 200th again.

Edit: Just checked and they have it in the descriptions but not the schematics (upgrade new general purpose lanes to HOV).

The main problem I see here is west bound between 202nd and 200th. The HOV lane exits because it was originally going to be an exit ramp primarily for buses. To make a continuous HOV lane over 200th street without reducing general purpose to a single lane they will have to construct a new lane. Eastbound is fine since be overpass already has a continuous third HOV lane.

Glacier · #**1693** Posted **Aug 26, 2019, 9:10 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by giallo

I'm sure this has been addressed in this thread before, but can I say how unbelievably awful Hwy 1 is from Chilliwack to Surrey? At this point, it's a national embarrassment.

As long as I've been alive (and since way before that, in 1964), the TCH has been two lanes each way between Chilliwack and Surrey. Since then, the Vancouver/Abbotsford metro areas have grown by close to two million people, and the highway had remained unchanged. In 2009, the provincial and federal government expanded the highway to four lanes (around six kms long) each way in Surrey, leading up to the new Portmann Bridge, but the ever-growing area between Hope and Langley remained unchanged.

For the past decade, that stretch of highway has been a completely nightmare. Clogged with commercial trucks leaving the ports, commuters and tourists, just someone slamming on their brakes can have a ripple affect that can cause the road to grid to a halt. Depending on how bad an accident is, the TCH can become a parking lot for well beyond an hour. What used to be a four hour drive to Kelowna, will often take up to five hours in decent conditions. Way longer is there's an accident.....and there's always an accident.

So imagine my joy when I saw construction taking place along the Surrey portion this summer. And imagine my utter disappointment when I realized it was a single HOV lane on each side for only six kilometers. These two HOV lanes will be completed in 2026.

I'm no advocate to massive road expansions, but this is ridiculous. THE national highway of our country that goes in to the third largest metro area, and serves one of the most important and busiest ports on the continent will have three lanes each way by 2026, and only for six kilometers. By that time, there will be another 250,000 in the duel metro areas, and most of those people will be living the cities of Surrey, Langley, Abbotsford and Chilliwack.

I'm curious about other metro area horror stories regarding the TCH. Is it as bad as what we have in Metro Vancouver? Have any of you living outside of Vancouver/BC had the displeasure of driving this stretch of road in the past few years?

Be thankful for what you've got! Here in the Interior of the province with very few exceptions they do not have the forethought to separate the lanes with a grass median so when the population grows such that they need to add a third lane, the cost will be triple because they will need to expropriate extremely expensive real estate.

I was in Kamloops the other day right where the freeway starts in Valleyview. heading uphill from the intersection of 5 (north) toward the Coquihalla there are only two lanes up and two lanes down, and they did NOT put a median in place. Now, traffic uphill is dangerous right now because you have slow trucks that started out at a stop thanks to those traffic lights in Valleyview, so you have one lane with everyone going 10km/h and the other lane has people going 100km/h. This makes it really dangerous as people try to pull into the fast lane to pass the trucks.

So far there hasn't been much development along this section of road, but that won't last long. They sure as hell better start setting aside land for at least one more lane because it's worse than highway 1 through Langley and Surrey.

flipper316 · #**1694** Posted **Sep 3, 2019, 7:18 PM**

https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2019TRAN0148-001677

Dengler Avenue · #**1695** Posted **Sep 3, 2019, 8:21 PM**

Speaking of that, is B.C. serious about an EDR for Highway 1 through Malahat or no?

swimmer_spe · #**1696** Posted **Sep 4, 2019, 12:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue

Speaking of that, is B.C. serious about an EDR for Highway 1 through Malahat or no?

There is one... but it goes through Port Renfrew.

Metro-One · #**1697** Posted **Sep 4, 2019, 1:21 AM**

A better solution would be to bypass the Malahat completely.

Upgrade highway 17 to full freeway standard with 6 lanes between Victoria and Swartz Bay, then have it fork just before the ferries, with a new freeway link running across Saanich Inlet and linking with the existing #1 just north of Cobble Hill.