High Speed Rail and Amtrak News

[colganc]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

The ridership issue is kind of a chicken/egg conundrum: service is so bad right now that nobody rides the train. I thought that the new trains we just bought and put into service at the end of 2014 were supposed to improve service and add some riders.

Oregon and Washington need to put the infrastructure upgrades into high gear to get anywhere with train service. Amtrak averages 45 mph on both Eugene - PDX and PDX - Seattle, which is frankly abysmal.

If we lose service now right after spending $40 million on new trains, wtf?!

Anyway, I emailed my reps.

Does the average speed include stops?

What happens if the service is stopped a d only restarts 10 or 20 years from now when the cities are larger and may be better able to support this?

Washington is building a bypass that cuts a few minutes off the trip.

[PDXDENSITY]

Originally Posted by colganc

What happens if the service is stopped a d only restarts 10 or 20 years from now when the cities are larger and may be better able to support this?

Why did we build a highway connecting our cities, then? Why one and not the other. If we didnt have the other, rail would be booming. It's all about balance and maintaining options. I think it would be terrible for this line to go, and would support state subsidizing the infrastructure to keep it going.

[zilfondel]

Originally Posted by colganc

Does the average speed include stops?

Yes.

What happens if the service is stopped a d only restarts 10 or 20 years from now when the cities are larger and may be better able to support this?

What happens when you shutter the Eugene, Salem, Albany, and other Amtrak stations for 20 years? Stations that have been recently renovated over the past few years? The new trains we just purchased?

On top of this, ODOT recently had some in-house reorganization and has a new 'passenger rail' department, which recently started long-range planning. They are looking at expanding service, not eliminating it. http://www.oregonpassengerrail.org/

Washington is building a bypass that cuts a few minutes off the trip.

Washington has long range plans to spend approximately $800 million on rail upgrades between Vancouver, Washington and Bellingham. Much of this includes double tracking, straightening tracks, and the Point Defiance Bypass through Lakewood.

----------------------

In sum, it seems like this is simply part of the budgetary process. Still people, please email your Oregon rep if you want passenger rail to be preserved!

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by colganc

The wiki page for the Cascades shows YoY ridership declines since 2012. Three years in a row now. Looking at the linked OregonLive article the requested budget is for $16 million. That is enough to subsidize each ticket on average $20. Throw in Washington's numbers and I bet most tickets are essentially half off. Seems pretty crazy to me.

It may not be true anymore, but as of a few years ago the Cascades from Portland to Seattle I thought was at a 95%+ farebox recovery rate. The biggest problem I've had with PDX/SEA trains is that they sell out early.

I know there's a huge dropoff south of Portland, but I thought the PDX-SEA part was almost paying for itself already.

[colganc]

Does anyone know wha the esult of this was? Is the legislature looking to close the gap?

[hat]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

Yes.



What happens when you shutter the Eugene, Salem, Albany, and other Amtrak stations for 20 years? Stations that have been recently renovated over the past few years? The new trains we just purchased?

On top of this, ODOT recently had some in-house reorganization and has a new 'passenger rail' department, which recently started long-range planning. They are looking at expanding service, not eliminating it. http://www.oregonpassengerrail.org/



Washington has long range plans to spend approximately $800 million on rail upgrades between Vancouver, Washington and Bellingham. Much of this includes double tracking, straightening tracks, and the Point Defiance Bypass through Lakewood.

----------------------

In sum, it seems like this is simply part of the budgetary process. Still people, please email your Oregon rep if you want passenger rail to be preserved!

Will this double tracking enable trains to run despite freight service, or will freight remain a priority? This is why I take the bus to seattle. I have had trips last 3 hours... and 5.5 hours, depending on the amount of freight trains. It is possible people rarely take the train in Oregon for similar reasons.

[colganc]

As I am planning on taking a trip to Seattle in the next few months, for fun I created a table for a trip by car, train, and plane to compare.

Car - ~182 minutes and $92. Includes overnight parking at hotel.
Train - ~300 minutes and $111. Includes overnight parking at Union Station. Walking from downtown Seattle station to hotel.
Plane - ~205 minutes and $321. Includes overnight parking at PDX and transit from SEATAC to hotel.

IF the train is on time, it looks like it compares very favorably versus the other modes.

[colganc]

Originally Posted by hat

Will this double tracking enable trains to run despite freight service, or will freight remain a priority? This is why I take the bus to seattle. I have had trips last 3 hours... and 5.5 hours, depending on the amount of freight trains. It is possible people rarely take the train in Oregon for similar reasons.

Were your trips always on the Cascades service and not Coast Starlight?

[maccoinnich]

Oregon Lawmakers On Track To Renew Amtrak Funding



An Oregon legislative panel has signed off on a plan that would ensure the state’s passenger rail service will run at least two more years along the I-5 corridor.

Oregon subsidizes two Amtrak Cascades passenger trains each day between Portland and Eugene. Rail advocates sounded the alarm this spring when lawmakers who chaired a budget subcommittee questioned whether the state was getting enough bang for its buck.

...continues at OPB News (although there's not much more to read).

[WestCoast]

Originally Posted by colganc

Car - ~182 minutes and $92. Includes overnight parking at hotel.
Train - ~300 minutes and $111. Includes overnight parking at Union Station. Walking from downtown Seattle station to hotel.
Plane - ~205 minutes and $321. Includes overnight parking at PDX and transit from SEATAC to hotel.

IF the train is on time, it looks like it compares very favorably versus the other modes.

Wait, what? Using your numbers, the train is 30% slower than a plane and 40% slower than a car.... each way.

And that is 'favorable'?


I'm all for trains, I'd even cut school funding to get some high speed rail going.
But, until the trip time is in line with other options (or, hopefully someday, much faster), the train will never be a serious competitor to other options if you value your time at all.

[colganc]

Originally Posted by WestCoast

Wait, what? Using your numbers, the train is 30% slower than a plane and 40% slower than a car.... each way.

And that is 'favorable'?


I'm all for trains, I'd even cut school funding to get some high speed rail going.
But, until the trip time is in line with other options (or, hopefully someday, much faster), the train will never be a serious competitor to other options if you value your time at all.

For a weekend trip, a couple of hours won't mean much, but the price does. The train is cheap and I can rest. That is favorable for a weekend trip. Trying to make it to a Seahawks or Mariners game wouldn't work (generally time sensitive). A business trip may work depending on the circumstances, it won't work when time sensitive and the cost savings is nearly meaningless.

[zilfondel]

When I last rode Amtrak from PDX -> SEA, it took about 3 hours and 15 minutes, so roughly 200 minutes. I have no idea where colgnac got 305 minutes from, unless its from his door to the hotel.

However, by that measure it takes me about 10-15 minutes to get to I-5 north, and I live in Sellwood. So a hotel in downtown Seattle would take me roughly 3 1/2 hours to get to from Portland, as I would need to add the time spent getting lost and finding the hotel in downtown Seattle, as well as getting stuck in Seattle rush hour through downtown which is always fun.

[colganc]

Originally Posted by zilfondel

When I last rode Amtrak from PDX -> SEA, it took about 3 hours and 15 minutes, so roughly 200 minutes. I have no idea where colgnac got 305 minutes from, unless its from his door to the hotel.

However, by that measure it takes me about 10-15 minutes to get to I-5 north, and I live in Sellwood. So a hotel in downtown Seattle would take me roughly 3 1/2 hours to get to from Portland, as I would need to add the time spent getting lost and finding the hotel in downtown Seattle, as well as getting stuck in Seattle rush hour through downtown which is always fun.

It is indeed door to door in all three cases. Not accounting for traffic delays etc.

[maccoinnich]

Oregon rail officials look to push high-speed passenger rail service into distant future

Tentative plan would keep passenger trains on Union Pacific Railroad tracks



The Oregon Department of Transportation spent four years and $10 million mulling where the Willamette Valley passenger rail line of the future should go — and is about to decide that it should stay put, on the Union Pacific Railroad tracks, where the long-standing intermingling of passenger and freight service guarantees ­sluggish passenger service.

The agency hopes to publish a draft environmental impact statement by December, take public comment on the proposed train route in early 2017 and designate a final plan in 2018. The Federal Railroad Administration has authority over the final decision.


If Oregon ­passenger train service stays on the Union Pacific line, it will be a bitter disappointment for the proponents of high-speed rail, who dream of a bullet train running parallel to Interstate 5, whisking riders from Eugene to Portland in an hour.

It also means for the foreseeable future that ­passenger service would remain at the mercy of railroad track owners, whose primary ­purpose is to move freight.

Even now, the railroad owners are seeking leave from a federal regulatory board to delay passenger trains whenever they become a drag on freight routes, Congressman Peter DeFazio, D-Ore, said.

That plan could wreck ­on-time performance for the Amtrak Cascades and dampen ridership. “It would hurt our region a lot potentially,” DeFazio said.

...continues at the Register Guard.

[maccoinnich]

The Point Defiance Bypass project hasn't gotten a lot of attention here, but when complete it will allow for faster, more reliable and more frequent trips between Portland and Seattle. (Sadly at the expense of the views of the Puget Sound.)

WSDOT and City of Tacoma Kick Off Construction of New Amtrak Station

The planned move of Tacoma’s Amtrak station to Freighthouse Square, already home to Tacoma Dome Station, moved closer to fruition on July 13, as local officials celebrated the start of construction. Secretary of Transportation Roger Millar was joined by Tacoma mayor Marilyn Strickland at the Tacoma Dome Station plaza, and both spoke about the change that the new station will bring to the city and how they were welcome to embrace it.

The new station is part of the Point Defiance Bypass project, which will create an inland route for passenger rail between the Nisqually River and Tacoma Dome, increasing reliability and allowing for additional daily roundtrips on Amtrak Cascades between Seattle and Portland. When the station opens late next year, Amtrak will abandon its current 1970s-era station on Puyallup Avenue, and be located in close proximity to Tacoma Link and Sounder service.

The ceremony also honored the contributions of a citizen advisory committee that played a key role in the design of the station, suggesting a slew of incremental improvements to the initial concepts presented by WSDOT. The new station will integrate the existing warehouse on the site, which was built in the early 20th century for the Milwaukee Road, and instead build a glass facade next to the current Sounder entrance; an earlier plan had proposed a complete demolition and replacement of the structure with a modern steel-and-glass station and was met with backlash from Tacomans.

...continues at the Seattle Transit Blog.

[Photogeric]

I think the coast starlight will remain on the original tracks, so that's always an option when wanting to take the more scenic route. Plus, if it saves ten minutes on the trip then it's a win! I mean, as it is it's already comparable to driving when you hit the inevitable traffic in Tacoma...

[davehogan]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

The Point Defiance Bypass project hasn't gotten a lot of attention here, but when complete it will allow for faster, more reliable and more frequent trips between Portland and Seattle. (Sadly at the expense of the views of the Puget Sound.)



...continues at the Seattle Transit Blog.

The entire trip is beautiful. Losing part of the scenery is worth it for the increased speed/reliability.

[maccoinnich]

Originally Posted by Photogeric

I think the coast starlight will remain on the original tracks, so that's always an option when wanting to take the more scenic route. Plus, if it saves ten minutes on the trip then it's a win! I mean, as it is it's already comparable to driving when you hit the inevitable traffic in Tacoma...

The Coast Starlight is also going to relocate to the Pt Defiance bypass. There will be no passenger trains left on the scenic coastal route.

[urbanlife]

Now if only we could get a dedicated passenger rail line running from Vancouver BC to Eugene.

[Photogeric]

Well it's finally about to happen. All of the Amtrak related projects between Portland and Seattle are basically done and by this fall, the trip will be reduced by 10 minutes to a reasonable 3hr 20mn trip time AND there will be two new daily round trip trains added. Great news for those who can benefit from this service. The new times even make Day trips in either city a much more appealing option. Here's a recent article about it and they have a PDF showing what the new timetable will look like!

https://seattletransitblog.com/2017/...d-of-the-year/