PRESTO/Fare Collection - Page 5

PHrenetic · #81 Posted **Oct 12, 2016, 12:06 PM**

Good Day...
back to Roger1818...

Ahha... that explains.... I too have only and strictly loaded with cash at an OC service desk. I have never used auto-load, nor is my card or profile linked to a credit card. My massive anti-electronic paranoia strikes again. Aside - I have worked in the computer systems industry for over 30 yrs.... and I don't trust computers as far as I can spit - and I can't spit !
The advantage of lining up to do an in-person transaction - they tap your card right there, and the funds or pass is instantly loaded. The disadvantage - lining up. Trade-off.
EnJoy !

roger1818 · #82 Posted **Oct 12, 2016, 1:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

The advantage of lining up to do an in-person transaction - they tap your card right there, and the funds or pass is instantly loaded. The disadvantage - lining up. Trade-off.

The other issue with paying cash is you have to get to either a OC Transpo Customer Service Centre or one of the three ServiceOttawa Client Service Centre that support presto (City Hall, Kanata & Ben Franklin Place). That is only seven locations, most of which are only open during normal business hours.

It would be nice if you could load your card with cash on the bus. It could instantly update the balance on your card and then upload the actual transaction to Presto the next time it syncs with the system (the same way it uploads your bus fare paid).

PHrenetic · #83 Posted **Oct 12, 2016, 5:03 PM**

Good Day... furthur to Presto problems/excesses/overruns/......
The Toronto Star , today, 2 articles :
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...er-budget.html
and
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...es-keenan.html
Seems like we all need to get together to force Metrolinx to get on the ball and fix things, and quit trying to overcharge us for junk.
EnJoy !

Uhuniau · #84 Posted **Oct 12, 2016, 7:05 PM**

Wasn't there off-the-shelf payment tech that could have been brought in from Finland or Japan?

Why re-invent the wheel, only to invent a really crappy wheel?

Guideway · #85 Posted **Oct 12, 2016, 7:48 PM**

What kind of fare gates are they using for the Confederation line? Turnstiles or sliding?

1overcosc · #86 Posted **Oct 12, 2016, 10:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day...
back to Roger1818...

Ahha... that explains.... I too have only and strictly loaded with cash at an OC service desk. I have never used auto-load, nor is my card or profile linked to a credit card. My massive anti-electronic paranoia strikes again. Aside - I have worked in the computer systems industry for over 30 yrs.... and I don't trust computers as far as I can spit - and I can't spit !
The advantage of lining up to do an in-person transaction - they tap your card right there, and the funds or pass is instantly loaded. The disadvantage - lining up. Trade-off.
EnJoy !

If you have auto-reload with a credit card, it's instant. With auto-reload, your auto-reload contract is stored in the card itself, and whenever you tap, the machine calculates if you need a reload, and if you do, it immediately adds the load to your card, and then puts a note in its record to charge the associated credit card. Then, when the reader syncs with the central system, the central system sees that note and sends a charge to the credit card. Because auto-reload uses pre-authorized credit transactions, Metrolinx is comfortable with getting paid after it hands out the balance. In the unlikely event of the transaction being denied, your Presto card is locked out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

The other issue with paying cash is you have to get to either a OC Transpo Customer Service Centre or one of the three ServiceOttawa Client Service Centre that support presto (City Hall, Kanata & Ben Franklin Place). That is only seven locations, most of which are only open during normal business hours.

This will change when the fare gates are installed. Each fare gate will have a self-serve Presto machine where you can load money onto your card using cash, credit, or debit.

1overcosc · #87 Posted **Oct 12, 2016, 10:50 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guideway

What kind of fare gates are they using for the Confederation line? Turnstiles or sliding?

Sliding. Nobody installs new turnstiles anymore; they're considered legacy technology.

Guideway · #88 Posted **Oct 12, 2016, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Sliding. Nobody installs new turnstiles anymore; they're considered legacy technology.

Thanks! That what I thought.

p_xavier · #89 Posted **Oct 13, 2016, 3:19 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Sliding. Nobody installs new turnstiles anymore; they're considered legacy technology.

For Montréal, turnstiles are still being installed. Sliding is more prone to defects and takes longer for people to get it. As long as there's one sliding gate for people with disability, all the rest should be turnstiles.

acottawa · #90 Posted **Oct 13, 2016, 3:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Wasn't there off-the-shelf payment tech that could have been brought in from Finland or Japan?

Why re-invent the wheel, only to invent a really crappy wheel?

Because every transit agency in the GTA wanted their complicated fare structure included in the card and the province was unwilling to standardize anything.

Also, bureaucrats and politicians hate off-the-shelf for some reason.

eltodesukane · #91 Posted **Oct 14, 2016, 1:06 PM**

Do they use PRESTO in Gatineau? Montreal? Laval? Quebec?

Capital Shaun · #92 Posted **Oct 14, 2016, 2:17 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Do they use PRESTO in Gatineau? Montreal? Laval? Quebec?

PRESTO is on Ontario only thing. (Though STO's system does recognize transfers and monthly passes on PRESTO cards.)

lrt's friend · #93 Posted **Oct 14, 2016, 2:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by acottawa

Because every transit agency in the GTA wanted their complicated fare structure included in the card and the province was unwilling to standardize anything.

Also, bureaucrats and politicians hate off-the-shelf for some reason.

Did you ever hear about Phoenix payroll system, another off-the-shelf program. How is that working?

lrt's friend · #94 Posted **Oct 14, 2016, 2:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capital Shaun

PRESTO is on Ontario only thing. (Though STO's system does recognize transfers and monthly passes on PRESTO cards.)

but cannot deal with individual fare payment. We are going to do away with tickets but we cannot handle its replacement properly.

acottawa · #95 Posted **Oct 14, 2016, 3:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Did you ever hear about Phoenix payroll system, another off-the-shelf program. How is that working?

By all accounts PeopleSoft (the off-the-shelf product) works fine. Things went wrong somewhere in the customization (IBM), laying off most of the payroll staff (Tories), moving payroll to New Brunswick (Tories), implementing without an adequate pilot (Liberals) elements of the project.

PHrenetic · #96 Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 3:25 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

but cannot deal with individual fare payment. We are going to do away with tickets but we cannot handle its replacement properly.

Good Day...
by the appearance of the articles from Toronto, their installations for TTC/UPX/etc will include purchase at stations of a single-use paper-base Presto pass. This needs to be checked out - if they can require it / do it, then why not us ? This could include the Community benefit single fare, one day pass, and week pass that are being proposed (and Montreal's OPUS has !) ie - WTF ?!
sigh.

roger1818 · #97 Posted **Oct 15, 2016, 12:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day...
by the appearance of the articles from Toronto, their installations for TTC/UPX/etc will include purchase at stations of a single-use paper-base Presto pass. This needs to be checked out - if they can require it / do it, then why not us ? This could include the Community benefit single fare, one day pass, and week pass that are being proposed (and Montreal's OPUS has !) ie - WTF ?!
sigh.

We are getting purchase stations at the Confederation Line stations. I believe they will also be added to the Trillium line stations as well. It would be nice if they could also be added to other Transitway stations to make it easier to purchase/load Presto cards and allow other fare payment options.

Catenary · #98 Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 5:22 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day...
by the appearance of the articles from Toronto, their installations for TTC/UPX/etc will include purchase at stations of a single-use paper-base Presto pass. This needs to be checked out - if they can require it / do it, then why not us ? This could include the Community benefit single fare, one day pass, and week pass that are being proposed (and Montreal's OPUS has !) ie - WTF ?!
sigh.

OC Transpo is taking a slightly different approach to PRESTO than Toronto is. In Toronto, Metrolinx is managing the entire system, including owning all of the equipment. Toronto has said that they want single use media, and Metrolinx is implementing that through PRESTO.

In Ottawa, while we have the same Gen 2 PRESTO equipment, it's all owned by OC Transpo, and we could theoretically use it to process payments through a system other than PRESTO. OC Transpo seems intent on maintaining this flexibility, and while that may be a pessimistic view of PRESTO, it's probably realistic. An example of this is that the new Smart UPasses are not based on PRESTO, but rather the STO's Multi.

Rather than have some form of disposable contactless fare media, OC Transpo has decided to leverage the existing transfer printers on buses and include a barcode on the transfer. All of the station entry gates will read these barcodes, so transfers can be made into O-Train stations from a bus. The addition of a barcode allows very simple disposable media to be sold by vending machines. Tickets could continue to exist, as long as they are machine readable, so they can be swapped for a ticket/transfer at the machine or existing farebox.

Quote:

Originally Posted by roger1818

We are getting purchase stations at the Confederation Line stations. I believe they will also be added to the Trillium line stations as well. It would be nice if they could also be added to other Transitway stations to make it easier to purchase/load Presto cards and allow other fare payment options.

Work is currently underway to add these machines to the Trillium line stations. Unlike the smaller, less capable machines that were designed for Toronto, OC Transpo is going with off the shelf machines from Scheidt and Bachmann that are capable of a huge range of things. Once we have a few of them rolled out, I think we'll probably see them around the rest of the system pretty quickly. The fact that these are OC Transpo machines and not PRESTO machines should help things.

PHrenetic · #99 Posted **Oct 16, 2016, 8:41 AM**

Good Day...
Oh please do let it be so.
Thank you for the signs of hope.

lrt's friend · #**100** Posted **Oct 17, 2016, 2:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHrenetic

Good Day...
by the appearance of the articles from Toronto, their installations for TTC/UPX/etc will include purchase at stations of a single-use paper-base Presto pass. This needs to be checked out - if they can require it / do it, then why not us ? This could include the Community benefit single fare, one day pass, and week pass that are being proposed (and Montreal's OPUS has !) ie - WTF ?!
sigh.

but not my reusable, refillable Presto card.