Massive SoHo complex planned

[sparky212]

http://holabird.com/
I was just looking through the architects portfolio the are from chicago and have some pretty sweet designs heres the link

[Coleraine]

the complex being put forward has 2x 27 story residential towers at Wellington and South street and Waterloo and South Street the building stretching inbetween these towers will be approximately 8-10 stories high. Residents were informed that there would be little in the way of commercial/retail "maybe a couple of places" the medical complex is high end and geared towards "rejuvenation" and there will be a series of high end townhomes/condos facing the river. The price ranges will be from $250k to $400K for the residences. At this point the building has no aesthetics in place, no nod to fitting in with a residental heritage district not to mention the heritage nature of the hospital itself and what City Hall plans to keep.

The City is pushing forward a zoning change and they haven't even sold the land yet - this is unheard of - so it begs the questions where is the "transparency" promised by our local politicians?????

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by Coleraine

The PROBLEM is that no one believes they have the money to do this and althought the City claims that this will be a transparent and open process there is real doubt as to whether or not that will be the case. Fincore has to date not acted particularly well when it comes to that land and has been testing without City permission to do so. They were given a cease and desist letter to stop testing (it was too late though they had already finished).

No one is against the development of South street BUT there are still people that live across the road from this development and that is not being taken into account. These are families and individuals who have lived here for over 50 years and they will have to put up with 3 years of construction, huge increases in traffic all whilst looking forward to living across the road from a building or buildings that appears to be more Jetsons than heritage district.

All do respect I don't see what Fincore's done wrong? They're trying to get all their ducks in a row, doing environmental tests, filing zoning changes, appearing before municipal committees, and although limited, have a website regarding the project with renderings. Unlike other developers & projects they seem to be on a mission and are moving at a brisk pace at completing the project.

If anything the criticism sounds like a NIMBY argument. Of course there's going to be construction, increased traffic, and a new look to the area. Right now that area of South St. is a blighted, desolate area, just empty field/parking lots. It needs to be developed, not just sit vacant like many other brownfields in the area.

Ultimately the area is doing to be developed, Fincore or someone else and a huge in-fill project like this will help both revitalize the area, increase property values and add millions to the tax coffers. Win-Win for everyone!

[haljackey]

Guess all we can do now is wait and see. I'm hoping for the best.

Anyone have links to the renderings? I've only seen those tiny pics in the Free Press articles.

[Coleraine]

the renderings are not yet online but you can see them at an Open House that Fincore is having. "Fincore Consulting will be holding an Open House advising the community in regards to their proposed development on South Street on Tuesday June 19th from 6:30 until 8 p.m. at the People’s Church, 72 Wellington Street. They will be serving light refreshments and everyone is welcome!"

Right now that area of South St. is a blighted, desolate area, just empty field/parking lots. It needs to be developed, not just sit vacant like many other brownfields in the area.


You seem to forget that there are homes in that so called "blighted" area - people have made their homes here for years some for as long as 50 years. There are at least 20 residences directly opposite from this development and no one is saying NIMBY what they are saying is please respect the plan the City was looking for, and don't try to tell us YOU wouldn't shout as loud as possible if it was your house directly impacted by this development. Remember Resevoir Hill, Wortley Village, Old North none of those projects went ahead as originally planned this is the same situation this is a residential area NOT a commercial corridor. Check out Springbank Drive and the Trowbridge neighbourhood complaints since the new medical building went up - would you like a thousand vehicles a day passing in front of your home?

[Pimpmasterdac]

Originally Posted by Coleraine

You seem to forget that there are homes in that so called "blighted" area - people have made their homes here for years some for as long as 50 years.

I referred to area from the Thames to South St. Maybe blighted is a bit harsh, but brownfield would be correct. However the area overgrown with weeds and is in need of development...

There are at least 20 residences directly opposite from this development and no one is saying NIMBY what they are saying is please respect the plan the City was looking for, and don't try to tell us YOU wouldn't shout as loud as possible if it was your house directly impacted by this development.

That is the definition of NIMBY, shouting as loud as you can about development because its close to you and in your opinion somehow worsens the neibourhood. IMO this development would revitalize the area, it brings more people together, brings jobs to the area and mostly importantly for you would raise property values

Remember Resevoir Hill, Wortley Village, Old North none of those projects went ahead as originally planned this is the same situation this is a residential area NOT a commercial corridor. Check out Springbank Drive and the Trowbridge neighbourhood complaints since the new medical building went up - would you like a thousand vehicles a day passing in front of your home?

To be fair Resevoir Hill is going ahead, even bigger than originally planned... As well traffic is historically low on South St. since the hospital closed so it only natural it increases again. Personally I'm South of SoHo and I have no problems with developement in my area. There's been talk for decades to connect Colbourne to Wellington via Beverly which would impact the area. I'm all in favour but its those type of NIMBY arguments that kill the project, and ultimately contribute to London's economic downturn.

The bottom line is you have a developer wanting and willing to spend $100s of millions on an area that is below its potential, and has no other substantial development proposed or planned. It the right type of development; high density, provides medical field jobs in a former medical area, a mixed demographic residence. It increases the attractiveness of SoHo to everyone, increases tax revenues and importantly property values! The definition of Win-Win

[Coleraine]

yes we know the parking lot blight and we have been constantly in touch with City Hall (since they own it) to clean it up for the past few years. Regardless the homes across from that blight (and beside it) have been instrumental in contributing to the City's vision for the area. Soho Community Association has worked long and hard with the Planning Department and they came up with a vision for a development that fit nicely into the area, took into account the actual homeowners across the street and throughout the neighbourhood and it was all set to go. Then Fincore comes in with money and City politicians throw out the work that was done and that they agreed to abide by and left the neighbourhood going WTF! We have said it before and will say it again we are NOT averse to development but why is the City suddenly throwing out 3-5 years worth of work/time/planning to allow Fincore free reign? All this money being thrown at ReThink London when the truth is Politicians don't give a s--t because as soon as someone says "I want to do this and not that and I have the cash" the plans go out the window and neighbourhoods are told shut up and put up with it - all in the name of development.

http://www.london.ca/Reference_Docum..._Reportnew.pdf

[Pimpmasterdac]

Seems like a good neighbourhood plan, one that would be beneficial to the area. Parts of it seem wishful thinking, they talked of 2 separate pedestrian bridges over the Thames, reconstructed underpasses on CN @ Richmond & Wellington. Just those alone the city is looking at upwards of $50 million, let alone the rest of it.

Ultimately though that plan isn't being thrown out, rather amended. The area from Wellington to Waterloo on South St. still has a river promenade on Fincore's renderings, its being more high-density than the SoHo area plans. Other than that there's no other substantive changes to the SoHo plan, no mass expropriations. If anything Fincore's development, whether thru development charges or tax revenue, could be used to implement the costly parts of the area plan.

Your concerns are understandable, but in all honesty Fincore has gained so much momentum at City Hall, it's doubtful there's gonna be anyway to stop it now. Fontana and the senior councilors are fast tracking the project so it looks like a forgone conclusion.

[cbyrne2014]

Originally Posted by That_Chris

Their only other project, a retirement home in lucan, features a website that says "opening spring 2012" but doesn't have a single picture to show what the place looks like. I'm guessing they're a bit behind schedule on construction... and don't put much effort in to website updates?

I would agree that it does seem suspicious. I guess only time will tell!

[ForestryW]

Originally Posted by Coleraine

yes we know the parking lot blight and we have been constantly in touch with City Hall (since they own it) to clean it up for the past few years. Regardless the homes across from that blight (and beside it) have been instrumental in contributing to the City's vision for the area. Soho Community Association has worked long and hard with the Planning Department and they came up with a vision for a development that fit nicely into the area, took into account the actual homeowners across the street and throughout the neighbourhood and it was all set to go. Then Fincore comes in with money and City politicians throw out the work that was done and that they agreed to abide by and left the neighbourhood going WTF! We have said it before and will say it again we are NOT averse to development but why is the City suddenly throwing out 3-5 years worth of work/time/planning to allow Fincore free reign? All this money being thrown at ReThink London when the truth is Politicians don't give a s--t because as soon as someone says "I want to do this and not that and I have the cash" the plans go out the window and neighbourhoods are told shut up and put up with it - all in the name of development.

http://www.london.ca/Reference_Docum..._Reportnew.pdf

Well said. This whole development seems weird. It sounds like an insular place where the wealthy can go to have plastic surgery, accommodations and other amenities all in one building without having to set foot in the rest of the city. Outside of property taxes I don't see how this contributes to neighbourhood revitalization at all.

[bolognium]

I basically agree with everything Pimpmaster's been saying. I can understand people worrying about a large scale development across the street from their house, but a lot of the concerned comments I've been reading smell strongly of NIMBYism.

Originally Posted by ForestryW

Outside of property taxes I don't see how this contributes to neighbourhood revitalization at all.

What about the increased population density the apartment/condo towers will bring to an underpopulated area and the impact on local businesses. What about the addition of a river trail which will help make the Thames more accessible? What about the hundreds of permanent jobs that could potentially offer live/work conditions in SoHo? Increased property values and leveraging the Hospital Lands.

It seems like the majority of the people complaining are residents across the street that will be directly affected. I haven't read complaints from someone who lives three blocks away and hates the development. It's always "what about the houses across the street?"

Shadow studies will be done before the design is complete. The orientation of the towers is north-south so shadowing from the actual towers should be minimal. The centre podium building will likely be set back from the street and low enough to not directly shadow the houses on South St. Not only that, but the houses north of South St. are much higher than the road with sloping front lawns.

Let's not forget that we're talking about a $250 Million+ investment in SoHo. To the people complaining about the negative aspects, at least try to acknowledge the positives.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by bolognium

Let's not forget that we're talking about a $250 Million+ investment in SoHo. To the people complaining about the negative aspects, at least try to acknowledge the positives.

Well said I could not agree more with all of your comments and this specifically. Most of the "bad" comments seem to be very NIMBY type comments, and while this might negatively affect a very small portion of people it will positively affect a huge number of people and the city of London as a whole.

[haljackey]

Let's not forget that this is central London, not some suburban community at the edge of the city. Intensification is going to happen, especially when the city is pushing to redevelop the core of the city.

These sort of projects should be expected.

[Snark]

Originally Posted by ForestryW

Well said. This whole development seems weird. It sounds like an insular place where the wealthy can go to have plastic surgery, accommodations and other amenities all in one building without having to set foot in the rest of the city.

Wow, you describe the building right next to this proposed site. It formerly was, to paraphrase you: "an insular place where the people can go to have surgery. Accommodations and other amenities all in one building without having to set foot in the rest of the city." Clearly Victoria Hospital made no contribution to the neighbourhood for the prior century by this logic.

Originally Posted by ForestryW

Outside of property taxes I don't see how this contributes to neighbourhood revitalization at all.

Then you don't understand how market value assessment works

[ForestryW]

Have you heard of this place?


http://www.eurthisnthat.com/wp-conte...nce-center.jpg

Thousands of people work there every day. It was expected to do wonders for downtown Detroit but did nothing.

The right development for this site is something smaller, a mixed community (which means incomes, ages and ethnicities) and better connected to the neighbourhood.

[cbyrne2014]

Originally Posted by ForestryW

Have you heard of this place?


http://www.eurthisnthat.com/wp-conte...nce-center.jpg

Thousands of people work there every day. It was expected to do wonders for downtown Detroit but did nothing.

The right development for this site is something smaller, a mixed community (which means incomes, ages and ethnicities) and better connected to the neighbourhood.

I don't really see the comparison. And I can't imagine what downtown Detroit would be like without the Renassiance Center and the billions of dollars it has generated for the city and in economic development since it was built.

[GreatTallNorth2]

Originally Posted by ForestryW

Have you heard of this place?


http://www.eurthisnthat.com/wp-conte...nce-center.jpg

Thousands of people work there every day. It was expected to do wonders for downtown Detroit but did nothing.

The right development for this site is something smaller, a mixed community (which means incomes, ages and ethnicities) and better connected to the neighbourhood.

I don't understand your comparison to the Ren Center in Detroit. The development in London is being built and leased out by the same company. They plan on bringing high end clients to use the facility. The land values of the neighboring properties will go up because this is being built. I see nothing negative in this development for London. It's all private money being invested in our city, something we desperately need...and even better, it's not sprawl. Oh yeah and it's well designed!

[bolognium]

Originally Posted by haljackey

Let's not forget that this is central London, not some suburban community at the edge of the city. Intensification is going to happen, especially when the city is pushing to redevelop the core of the city.

These sort of projects should be expected.

Exactly! That's one of the complaints that's been bothering me the most. That Fincore's development doesn't "fit in" with the rest of the neighbourhood. Well in a few years when the rest of the neighbourhood is built out these towers will fit in just fine. Once highrises dot the Thames from the Hydro Lands to Wellington to the Old Vic Lands the buildings will be right at home. Not to mention the proximity to all of downtown's highrises, and the cluster of highrises developing on Ridout in Old South. SoHo should absolutely be embracing this scale of development.

While the heritage character of SoHo is one of its most important features, that shouldn't mean all new developments must strive to fit in with century-old bungalows. A mix of old and new, different building styles, and of course different densities is what will make SoHo a vibrant neighbourhood. The official plan was created to give direction to growth, not to fully control it. The residents of SoHo need to understand that it is not a final draft, it's still a work in progress.

Again, this seems like a couple squeaky wheels making a fuss. These people expected a couple low-rise apartments across the street, and maybe a nice big park. Now that something new has been proposed they're getting all up in arms about it.

[haljackey]

Exactly. Another thing I've been hearing is that this proposed development does not comply with the SoHo Improvement Plan's guidelines.

"The city's planning department has spent years making this plan, and the mayor/council are disregarding it to fast track this project."
-This seems a little too harsh in my mind. I'm sure the plan has been taken into account, although I would like to see if it can comply with it a bit better.

...Although I don't see a way it can fully comply because a development of this scale wasn't really considered when it was drawn up.

The Free Press is full of editorials like these. Reddit's London section also has an ongoing discussion: http://www.reddit.com/r/londonontari...e_on_south_st/


EDIT: A Channel London's story on the proposal:
• Video Link

[Simpseatles]

While I can sympathize with the people who live in the immediate area around the planned SOHO development, I think that it will benefit the city as a whole. It should aid in the development of future transit oriented nodes outside the main downtown core, and it should help kick-start some more developments that put their focus on the beautiful Thames river.

Yes, the towers may seem a little out of scale at first, yes this centre may be aimed mainly at the rich seeking anti-aging treatments, and yes this Fincore company seems a little questionable, but dammit it's not every day that something this cool gets proposed here in London! If the towers end up looking like the renders, there are some stores at street level, and considerations are taken into account for making it pedestrian friendly, this development would be an absolutely fantastic addition to the city!

Plus, It'll make rich people from around the world flock here to humble London...Ontario for their fancy treatments!