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  #121  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 1:57 AM
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Who was for/against?

I can guess that Gloria was one against, probably Barkhouse as well.
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  #122  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 2:08 AM
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Who was for/against?

I can guess that Gloria was one against, probably Barkhouse as well.
Gloria, Smith and Barkhouse, the dynamic trio - what a disaster.
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  #123  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 2:17 AM
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The process is deeply flawed and should be changed. It doesn't make sense to give councillors what is in effect a sort of veto power over new developments in their district (note that a tie is a loss for the developer, so all you need is 2 colluding councillors in CCs of 3 or 4 members to halt all development). To add insult to injury, they shut this down before it even went to a public hearing. It has a very "kangaroo court" sort of feel, just like how the city dealt with St. Pat's-Alexandra.

Many of these councillors are just horrible and the elections are not competitive, partly because the districts are tiny and partly because of voter apathy. Gloria was acclaimed in 2008 -- zero votes required. Jackie Barkhouse won with a total of 2450 votes and Jim Smith won with 1799 votes. No wonder why they only listen to special interests!

Last edited by someone123; Jan 18, 2012 at 2:29 AM.
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  #124  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 2:27 AM
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WTF!!!!!!! one more BIG disapointment....
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  #125  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 2:36 AM
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Damn NIMBYs and damn this council.
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  #126  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 2:44 AM
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I'm not impressed at all. This is just like how Watts tried to torpedo the Quinpool/Vernon project. What message does this send developers? Spend X amount of dollars on design and studies just so 6 people with little technical background can decide on a whim and not merit if a project can go to a public meeting? A project should go to staff (trained professionals) to decide if it ready for a public hearing based on merit. Next politics can enter. At the public hearing people can voice their opinions yay or nay. The councilors then make their call based on what the majority of their constituents want, they represent the residents, not their own personal biases.
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  #127  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 3:02 AM
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CBC News just ran a piece on the hearing. It was reasonably balanced in presentation, with one person stating the ever-popular "it's too TALL!!!" line while another lady was quite properly outraged that "My councilor decided on her own to deny the democratic process and not even take it to a hearing!" The piece also showed many people in the audience with "Pro" buttons on their jackets. They finished it off with McCroskey stating that all you had to do was look at it to see it was "too TALL!!!" and looking quite satisfied with herself, and the developer sounding discouraged.

This kind of mismanagement of our future must stop.
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  #128  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 3:19 AM
RyeJay RyeJay is offline
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I'm half-tempted to start a facebook group myself. I want people to see a single list of all those on council, their positions on development, and finally: how to vote in the next election.

There is enough bitterness in Halifax toward the tiny anti-development crowd that we may turn apathy into motivation to vote these councilors out. At the very least, people need to see how flawed this system is.
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  #129  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 3:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kph06 View Post
I'm not impressed at all. This is just like how Watts tried to torpedo the Quinpool/Vernon project. What message does this send developers? Spend X amount of dollars on design and studies just so 6 people with little technical background can decide on a whim and not merit if a project can go to a public meeting? A project should go to staff (trained professionals) to decide if it ready for a public hearing based on merit. Next politics can enter.
I wonder what value the politics really add to the process. On balance the city would probably be much better off if councillors were removed from this equation. There should be some room for public opinion but residents should not have veto powers over all new buildings on properties they do not own. It just doesn't make sense, even before you take into account the horrible chilling effect and the unfairness of forcing developers to play roulette.

Council should be setting higher-level objectives that staff should even-handedly implement. The staff recommendations on these projects generally seem quite balanced.

This case is actually particularly absurd because the developer has as-of-right approval for a 16 storey hotel building. He just wants to change the use to something that is arguably more compatible with the area.
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  #130  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 3:37 AM
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They finished it off with McCroskey stating that all you had to do was look at it to see it was "too TALL!!!" and looking quite satisfied with herself, and the developer sounding discouraged.
In my opinion she is an awful councillor who typically does not add anything constructive to these development debates. All I have seen from her are meaningless statements like "it's too tall!". I remember her sharing a nugget about almost being blown over by the Maritime Centre to argue against the United Gulf towers. Apparently she is the expert, not the engineers who conduct wind studies.

On top of this there's the constant BS about how Dartmouth doesn't get its fair share and how things should be located there instead of Halifax. Again, that is just not constructive and not what the city needs. Neighbourhood-level jealousy and pettiness is just pathetic. She should champion her district but that does not mean that she needs to tear other areas down to do it. It's particularly sad since she is personally contributing to Dartmouth's problems by torpedoing opportunities for new investment.

All of the praise of her that I have heard has been incredibly vague. For example, people will say that she cares about Dartmouth or that she's impressive because she's old. Nobody points to substantive accomplishments. The only positive thing I can say is that the people who judge their councillors in that way deserve them.
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  #131  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 5:17 AM
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So it must have been Bill Karsten, Lorelei Nicoll and Darren Fisher who voted in favour? (here are the members of the Harbour East Community Council - http://www.halifax.ca/commcoun/hecc/hecc.html)

There are Councillors who want to see progress in the HRM. Hopefully they will be the ones who will be re-elected in the October 2012 elections.

I can't figure out Gloria McCluskey; she votes in favour of some high-rise developments and against others.
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  #132  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by someone123 View Post
I wonder what value the politics really add to the process. On balance the city would probably be much better off if councillors were removed from this equation. There should be some room for public opinion but residents should not have veto powers over all new buildings on properties they do not own. It just doesn't make sense, even before you take into account the horrible chilling effect and the unfairness of forcing developers to play roulette.
I agree completely, I think it should be a process where a developer works with staff and community workshops, where they can work together to fine tune the plans. Council shouldn't be involved besides being a member of the community at the workshop. It would free up more of their time to discuss chickens and cats, something more at their level.
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  #133  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 12:20 PM
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  #134  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 2:03 PM
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Take a look at the comments section and the number of people protesting this decision but more importantly the numbers "liking" what they said.
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  #135  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 3:17 PM
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Does anyone have any info on this 16 story hotel that they keep talking about?

Also this is horrible. Can the developer bring it to the URAB?
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  #136  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kph06 View Post
I agree completely, I think it should be a process where a developer works with staff and community workshops, where they can work together to fine tune the plans. Council shouldn't be involved besides being a member of the community at the workshop. It would free up more of their time to discuss chickens and cats, something more at their level.
I agree... for some reason the public often seems ok with politicians involved in decision making when they are seen to be opposing the "evil developers", and yet clearly are against politicians involved in decision making if they were seen to be supporting these same "evil developers".

It would not be ok for politicians to be pushing a plan through to help a developer out by getting rid of public consultation, so why is it ok for politicians to kill the plans of a developer by getting rid of public consultation??? That is a question I would really like the councillors to answer!
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  #137  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 3:56 PM
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Well at least the applicant has the right to an appeal - which I suspect they will use. That is some silver lining, but still...
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  #138  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 3:59 PM
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This is just weird/stupid considering the amount of people that supported this, especially all the people on this forum that would not have come on here if it were not for this and supporting it .
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  #139  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 4:58 PM
halifaxboyns halifaxboyns is offline
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This is just weird/stupid considering the amount of people that supported this, especially all the people on this forum that would not have come on here if it were not for this and supporting it .
My problem with how this was handled, is that it didn't allow the people who showed up to speak. I think this was first reading only, so they wouldn't have been able too anyway...but because they didn't give 1st reading to the proposal - no public hearing can happen.

Whether the people were there to support or oppose, the proposal should've been given 1st reading prompting a public hearing so everyone's views could be heard. The way this was done, didn't allow that. People's views were not even given an opportunity to be heard...if they had done the public hearing, I suspect the vote would've been no different, but at least the people would've been heard. The people (the voters) weren't heard...because you can't let a public information meeting be the basis to form an opinion.
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  #140  
Old Posted Jan 18, 2012, 5:54 PM
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Originally Posted by halifaxboyns View Post
Well at least the applicant has the right to an appeal - which I suspect they will use. That is some silver lining, but still...
I imagine the UARB would over-turn the desicion. McClusky would sure be loud at that session of council.
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