UBC/UEL Updates Discussion

[mr.x]

^ what time did that happen? I walked by the knoll at 3 that day, and there was this large group of people gathering under a tent and some girl was singing some crappy hippy song.


They need to get a life.

[quobobo]

100 students? I went by there a couple times on Friday and I saw around 50 tops each time. Somehow I'm guessing that number came from the protesters.

The protesters are really, really getting on my nerves. There seems to be a lot of overlap between the people who protested against 18-story condos on University Boulevard (largely the original reason for the underground bus loop - to allow convenient retail for these towers near ground, from what I understand) and the people who protest the underground bus loop. Yes, financially an underground bus loop probably isn't a great idea. Why? Because you complained so much that UBC removed from the plan the condo towers that were essentially funding it!

Here's a good example of how crazy these people are: http://www.sdsubc.ca/campaigns/free-...vdpamphlet.pdf

At first, the University was determined to move the transit hub underground in
order to transform the centre of campus into a shopping mall. The original Uni-
versity Blvd development plan included 18 story condo towers, and since it was
necessary that the condo owners have amenities close by, plans placed stores at
the centre of campus. But all experts agreed that the transit hub ought to remain
at the centre of campus (where it was at the time). Therefore, the University
decided to divert tens of millions of dollars into moving the bus terminal under-
ground. WIth dollar signs in their eyes, they were of course blind to sustainabil-
ity issues.

The administration proposed replacing mostly empty, useless, and ugly outdoor space (seriously, have you tried to sit down on the knoll during the 90% of the school year where it's too cold or too wet?) with quite dense residential and commercial space, and these students call them "blind to sustainability issues"? This puts to rest the notion that most NIMBYs are old and retired...

On a different note, I agree with mr. x2 - Irving Barber is fantastic. The main lobby or whatever it's called is gorgeously done, and there's tons of general purpose space (I was easily able to find a seat for studying around noon on a weekday! This is a first!). I don't have high hopes for the little café in it (it's run by UBC food services after all), but I'll give it a try sometime.

[mr.x]

^ I was actually against those towers, not because of NIMBYism but because I didn't think it was right for University Boulevard - that it should remain as public, student, and educational space. But now that you mentioned the retail portion of it, I'm gonna have to retract my opinions....too bad it was canceled.

I nearly puked reading that pdf file you posted....did a university student actually write that?

These students have absolutely no idea about what they're fighting for. The university should really just steamroll ahead and ignore these students.

Though I have to admit, they do have some valid points....such as why they're not putting the trolleys underground as well or why they're not waiting for Translink's UBC SkyTrain plans.



I haven't tried out the cafe at Irving. It has only been open for a few weeks, but it already has decent business.

[quobobo]

Yeah, I'll agree that they have a few decent points. Not putting trolleys underground is a little odd, but I don't think it's a really big deal. Putting the diesel buses underground is still saving a lot of space, and it's not like the project is useless unless all the buses go underground - every bit of space saved counts. As for Skytrain connectivity, I seem to remember someone from UBC saying that the new Millenium Line will connect with this transit hub somehow, but I can't find the exact quote (I think I read it on this forum though) so I'm not sure what's going on there.

That said, I still do think they're all loony, just looking for a cause to champion, and would oppose this project even if the (real) problems were sorted out. For every sensible point they make, they make one like the following:

Pollution: apparently, there would be a giant noisy fan sucking the bus fumes out of the bus bunker - to be excreted from a giant smoke stack on top of the shopping mall.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by quobobo

Yeah, I'll agree that they have a few decent points. Not putting trolleys underground is a little odd, but I don't think it's a really big deal. Putting the diesel buses underground is still saving a lot of space, and it's not like the project is useless unless all the buses go underground - every bit of space saved counts. As for Skytrain connectivity, I seem to remember someone from UBC saying that the new Millenium Line will connect with this transit hub somehow, but I can't find the exact quote (I think I read it on this forum though) so I'm not sure what's going on there.

That said, I still do think they're all loony, just looking for a cause to champion, and would oppose this project even if the (real) problems were sorted out. For every sensible point they make, they make one like the following:

Yea, someone did mention that the transit hub will connect to the future SkyTrain station somehow.....but imo, it would require a design overhaul. The existing underground loop plan is to have a staircase descend to an island platform. The only way to have direct SkyTrain connectivity is to have the train platform below the bus loop: another staircase that descends to the second underground level to the platform.


There are ways to hide those "smoke" stacks. They make it sound like as if huge plumes of black smoke will be billowing out of it. The Vancouver Olympic Village has a hot water gas boiler plant, and it will have flues that will be 8-storeys high. They are uniquely disguised, with so that one probably wouldn't notice them being smoke stacks. They will have LED lights atop, and most of the exterior will be made out of stainless steel:


posted by officedweller

[dreambrother808]

another silly aspect is the fact that if the buses are above ground, all of that pollution is still getting dispersed into the atmosphere. however, with a stack the point of exit can be made much higher, and therefore above the general breathing space of the pedestrian.

these students are naturally young and naive. they have yet to realize that blindly reacting against everything out of idealism is just a means to neutralize your entire argument. unfortunately, the self-righteousness that goes along with these kinds of protesters is pretty much impossible to penetrate with any other kind of reason.

they use terms like "giant noisy fan" and "giant smokestack" as if they are creating some kind of exaggerated fairy tale monster. give some actual dimensions, some actual proof of the noise level, not just rhetoric and scare tactics.

[mr.x]

"giant noisy fan" and "giant smokestack"

I'm surprised they haven't associated what is being planned with these:

[Tom Bombadil]

Is it really that important to have the bus loop connect with SkyTrain? How many people will be transferring? UBC is the destination for those arriving by bus or train.

[eduardo88]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

Is it really that important to have the bus loop connect with SkyTrain? How many people will be transferring? UBC is the destination for those arriving by bus or train.

UBC is a big campus tho, people need to have the option of transfering from skytrain to bus and vice versa

[quobobo]

Originally Posted by eduardo88

UBC is a big campus tho, people need to have the option of transfering from skytrain to bus and vice versa

I have never seen more than a couple people on those campus community shuttles, and I don't know anyone who's been on them more than once or twice. Besides, putting them roughly halfway in between the bus loop and the Skytrain would make it roughly the same as it is now.

I think Tom Bombadil is right, as long as they're both in relatively central areas I don't think it really matters whether the buses and trains are connected.

[worldwide]

bunch of idiots protesting the bus loop... im sure they would prefer a bunch more parking lots instead

[dreambrother808]

but why aren't the police and firefighters nice to me when i light a big bonfire in the middle of campus? did you see them playing up their so-called injuries on the news? the video they shot that supposedly captured the police brutality showed pretty much nothing of the sort, just standard protesters refusing to leave and having to be forcibly removed. thinking that you can light fires in public and not listen to the police and firefighters in the aftermath is ridiculous.

i went to ubc and have memories of the grassy knoll, but really it's not that major. it's a crappy little hill with some grass on it. that's all.

[Tom Bombadil]

Originally Posted by dreambrother808

i went to ubc and have memories of the grassy knoll, but really it's not that major. it's a crappy little hill with some grass on it. that's all.

I believe UBC has already stated that the grassy knoll will be remade after the bus loop is done. This was in response to earlier petitions.

[mr.x]

Originally Posted by Tom Bombadil

I believe UBC has already stated that the grassy knoll will be remade after the bus loop is done. This was in response to earlier petitions.

wtf....yea, i hate this city. might as well rename it to hippy central.

PAVE THE KNOLL!
KNO TO THE KNOLL!

[Tom Bombadil]

From the UBC website:

"Full details are available in a report approved by the Board of Governors in November, which explicitly seeks to 'retain more of the existing character of the landscaping already in place, most significantly through the re-creation of the grassy knoll.'"

[dreambrother808]

this makes the protesters look even more ridiculous and out of touch. the saddest part is that protest is important and should be taken seriously when there is genuine injustice. ridiculous people like this make an impression in the public's mind about protest in general, a bad one.

[mr.x]

KNO TO THE KNOLL! A DEMONSTRATION!
All we are saaaaayiiingg is build bus loop now!



Where: in front of the hippy camp
When: Friday, April 11 - from 12:30 to 1 pm


Hello all supporters of the cause,

This Friday, aka the last day of classes and the "Block Party," we will be having a rally in front of the hippie camp and the knoll.

It will begin around 12:30-1 in the afternoon. We will meet there and organize everyone at that time.

Signs, shovels, a megaphone and other supplies to help get our message across will be brought. We encourage those of you who wish to join us in protest to make your own signs.

On that note: please keep the signs reasonably clean and classy, we won't be taken seriously if we have signs laced with profanity.

We will stage a symbolic "dig-up", as well as other activities to get our message across.

Also be prepared to "discuss" the issues with those who will inevitably argue with us.

I urge all of you to come out this friday, and lets send a message to those hippies!

If you have any questions or suggestions, please message me.
Also, if you have any sign ideas, message me and I'll try to incorporate the ideas into our signs.

And as always
Kno to the Knoll, Build Bus Loop Now, P.F. Changs!


-----------------------

The hippies have rebuilt their shanty town in the parking lot. Think of how much more convenient it would be if instead of soggy furniture and a hill, we had more retail! Maybe even a PF Chang's! Or a Taco Bell!

And the benefits of an underground bus loop cannot be overstated. There would likely be interesting construction projects and impressive cranes to look at for months as they built it, and afterwards we would have a new bomb shelter to hide in, in case the terrorists came.

In all seriousness, it would also make a pretty effective SkyTrain station when they build that one day after we have all left UBC.

----------------------

It has become all too easy for those covering the controversy regarding the future of the knoll and University of B.C. campus development plans to frame the issue as a contest between the interests of powerful developers and university administrators and those of helpless students. This will likely continue with the coverage of the disorder and inevitable conflict that came as a result of a clearly unsafe bonfire being lit in the middle of campus last Friday.

That is a shame. The silent majority of students recognize that their interests are indeed served by a plan that will improve transit efficiency, add badly needed capacity to a choked campus housing market, and improve the sadly lacking retail choices on campus. That same silent majority recognizes the value of respect for the rule of law and the good men and women who enforce it.

Until this past weekend, "Trek Park" was little more than a nuisance to most students. Now it is fast becoming a symbol for the kind of unacceptable chaos and mob rule that one hears about at some other universities. In light of that, I doubt the majority will be silent for much longer.

[nathan6969]

I walked by the construction site around the knoll today, and honestly, i don't know why these guys bother to protest, just sit back and it'll take them another 15 years to ever get this thing built. It seems like they rolled all this equipment in back in the summer, but it doesn't look they've really done anything. Not only has this been debated for the last decade, but all they seem to have done in the last 8 months is move a bit of soil around on the surface.

[quobobo]

^^ I'll probably go to that.

[mr.x]

I have class, but to anyone here that is going don't just bring a shovel....bring a bulldozer!