Feds may sell part of VIA rail

[Metro-One]

Very true, even in Japan private rail is heavily subsidized by the government (especially when it comes to infrastructure projects) because rail, like highway networks, is one of those things that is very difficult, if not impossible (save very small specific routes) for a 100% private operation to make money off of. That being said, good railway and highway systems pay for themselves many times over by the economic growth and movement of people and goods they provide. Essentially, rail is an enabler for other industries / economic activities to grow. It is all indirect profits.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Very true, even in Japan private rail is heavily subsidized by the government (especially when it comes to infrastructure projects) because rail, like highway networks, is one of those things that is very difficult, if not impossible (save very small specific routes) for a 100% private operation to make money off of. That being said, good railway and highway systems pay for themselves many times over by the economic growth and movement of people and goods they provide. Essentially, rail is an enabler for other industries / economic activities to grow. It is all indirect profits.

One argument I commonly hear is "if it's worth doing then why isn't the private sector doing it already?"

It is just wrong to assume that the costs and benefits for the government are the same as private industry. As you say, one important difference is that the government can often capture benefits from a certain type of investment that private companies cannot. The government is not just about monetary profit -- the goal of government should be to create the best quality of life possible for citizens. Finally, many industries are natural monopolies so it makes sense for the government to be involved. In those cases private businesses don't tend to create a good outcome because the free market breaks down.

[eternallyme]

A large part of it is that outside the major cities, the people seem to hate government in general these days.

[Metro-One]

Feels like an American influence, the scary big government. The funny thing is life in the rural areas is the most subsidized by the government, and without it things would be far, far worse in remote areas.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Feels like an American influence, the scary big government. The funny thing is life in the rural areas is the most subsidized by the government, and without it things would be far, far worse in remote areas.

That is true (although rural municipalities and smaller towns and cities - say, under 25,000 for great influence and under 75,000 or so for modest influence - tend to have far fewer services), but there is a perception otherwise. That is where people own guns, people hate regulations, etc.

[MolsonExport]

Living in the corridor, I take Via all the time. Beats flying, or driving.

[cormiermax]

I also often use Via between Moncton and Halifax, great service at only a fraction of the price of air fair and far far more comfortable than the bus, which is just about the worst mode of inner city travel iv used.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by cormiermax

I also often use Via between Moncton and Halifax, great service at only a fraction of the price of air fair and far far more comfortable than the bus, which is just about the worst mode of inner city travel iv used.

That is exactly the sort of distance where rail travel makes sense. Even if the air fare were cheaper it would probably not be a whole lot faster, particularly if you want a downtown to downtown trip.

[Metro-One]

Again, a nice modern medium speed electric rail from Victoria to Campbell River = no brainer. The perfect distance.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

Greyhound certainly doesn't have exclusive rights. In Saskatchewan its not even close to the biggest player.

If VIA is privatized, what could it mean in terms of expansion?

I'll rephrase. What my understanding was, from a news report several years ago when Greyhound announced plans to scrap certain routes in Northwestern Ontario and Western Canada, they have exclusive rights to certain routes. For example, between London and Toronto, Greyhound is the only bus service available. There are other companies, yes, but from what I can tell they are sub-licensed by Greyhound to operate certain routes, and those companies get exclusive rights to those routes. For example, Ontario Northland operates certain routes in Ontario, but they can be booked through Greyhound.

I'll put it this way. I have been to a city in Mexico about the size of Saskatoon, and it has a massive bus terminal. You have your choice of about five or six bus lines that are competing for your business - much better service than Greyhound, much more comfortable buses than Greyhound or VIA, free water, pop and juice, and much lower prices than in Canada. And the departure times are frequent.

Greyhound employees are generally miserable, but why would they need to be nice? It's not like they have to compete with other bus lines with similar pricing.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by jigglysquishy

Greyhound certainly doesn't have exclusive rights. In Saskatchewan its not even close to the biggest player.

If VIA is privatized, what could it mean in terms of expansion?

Zero or even negative as a non-compete will be required by any buyer.

A private entity will not expand unless their profits and lineups are excessive.

The government will not be allowed to expand without paying the owners of the line off. See Australia transit expansion since they were privatized. Zero expansion until the government stepped in and paid a substantial premium to have it done.

[Symz]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Living in the corridor, I take Via all the time. Beats flying, or driving.

I live in the corridor and my last VIA experience kind of sucked. 12 uncomfortable hours to Montreal, bathrooms covered in piss..

[MolsonExport]

Business class, watson.

[go_leafs_go02]

I take the VIA train a few times a year from London east towards the GTA.

I'd take it more, but the cost of driving is far cheaper. 40 bucks from London to Toronto, one way, with my youth fare. Still, I love taking trains, and will never take a Greyhound if there's a train available.

[ssiguy]

Greyhound doesn't even run on Vancouver Island. It also no longer even runs east of Montreal.
The cross country train is spectacular but that is a tourist train and the travelling public should not be subsidizing it.
VIA doesn't make money or even break even because it is forced to provide services to every little squat dot on the map.
VIA should just focus on The Corridor with maybe limited service to Halifax and that's it.
If someone wants to run other lines or create new one ie Calgary/Edmonton then let them. The lines VIA is allowed to cancel should be GIVEN to their respective provinces so they can use them as they see fit whether that be improved passenger rail service, commercial use, or for rapid transit/commuter rail. The lines were built by the taxpayers so VIA shouldn't profit from them.
Anyhow, unless Harper can work out something with BC, his dreams of getting rid of service out here are a non-starter. It was the Canadian Supreme Court that ruled in BC's favour and seeing there has been no change to the Constitution, they will not be willing to hear the case again.

[armorand93]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

I wish Harper luck...........he's gonna need it.
I'm dating myself but Mulroney tried the same thing and he got slapped down hard.
Mulroney wanted VIA to get rid of the Vancouver Island line which it gleefully agreed to but then came in that little nasty thing called the Constitution.
One of the demands BC made when entering Canada was that there had to be a rail connection and service to the rest of the country and the feds were taken to court. Well BC won at the Supreme Court and hence the service, poor as it is, continues.
I will love to see Harper trying to get around it but I don't see how he can.

I'd love to see that too!

[Symz]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Business class, watson.

Does the train not shake as much from the crappy, rickety tracks in business class?

[MolsonExport]

You must be referring to the northern route (via Guelph, St. Mary's, etc.), for which there is no business class, and extremely shoddy tracks. The southern route (via Aldershot, etc.) is quite smooth.

[kool maudit]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

What some people are forgetting is that VIA Rail is the main link to the outside world for Churchill, Manitoba.

you're right. i had forgotten that.

[albertantraingeek]

Via Rail is not up for sale...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/story/...ts-report.html
http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/...219#post308219