Great Canadian Transit Fantasies Thread

[Nouvellecosse]

Oh, I thought you mean just creating the tunnel would be $10-15 billion. I was like "Damn, forget NY run by the Swiss, this must be NY run by the Quebec construction industry"

[Aylmer]

Since we're on the topic of Urban EMU/EMU transit, I sketched up this fantasy map of an urban/regional rail for Ottawa. Almost all of the alignment already exists, save a tunnel under the Airport and one Downtown to our very own Union Station (yes, we have one which was used until the 1960s) as well as some lines into the Barrhaven, Kanata and Orleans (built along a BRT alignment, a highway and a Hydro corridor respectively)



(click for le big picture)


It would be much more of an extension of the current O-Train system than a commuter rail system: smaller trains, all-day service and stations geared more towards walking traffic than Park&Rides. In the city, it would function similarly to the SBahn or RER: frequent (5-10 min), metro-like service, but with fewer stops than a metro.

[1overcosc]

Wow. Lots of Ottawa maps already... but I'll feel free to add more. This is my ultimate Ottawa fantasy metro system map:

It consists of six lines:
-Red line: Runs from Kanata to Orleans along the BRT/planned LRT right of way--with my own personal extension eastwards from Trim to a new station ("Cardinal") in the new Cardinal Creek village development
-Green line: Runs from Barrhaven to south Orleans. Follows current transit routes to Blair-Innes, then in the median of Innes Rd eastwards to Frank Kenny Road. Would hopefully trigger urban redevelopment of Innes.
-Yellow line: Starting in Gatineau, follows Rapibus ROW, services downtown Hull via a line underneath Maisonneuve, then across to Ottawa, underneath Bank Street to Sunnyside, then underneath Sunnyside to Carleton and along O-Train/planned LRT ROW to Barrhaven.
-Orange line: Duplicates Yellow line between downtown Ottawa & South Keys, then serves Airport. Allows for more frequent service to be applied to what is likely going to be the highest-ridership portion of Yellow line in addition to airport service.
-Pink line: From Blair, proceeds north on/under Bathgate then east along Montreal/Rideau and crossing over along Alexandria Bridge to Gatineau. Proceeding eastwards along Alumettieres to the railway ROW then down that to Tache and then eastwards along Chemin Aylmer, splitting into two with one branch continuing down Chemin Aylmer into Aylmer's core the other heading north into Plateau
-Blue line: Starts at Bank/Catherine, heads west along Catherine to Bronson, then down Bronson to Carling then west on Carling to Richmond (with Britannia station at Carling/Richmond) then SW along Richmond/Robertson into Bells Corners, then along Transcan/former rail ROW to Stittsville Main.

I replaced the current planned LRT stations at O'Connor and Lyon with three at Elgin, Bank, Bay. I also renamed Dominion & Westboro Transitway stations to Kitchissippi & Tweedsmuir.

SW Transitway in my plan would be dropped south of Heron and used as part of a crosstown BRT route (not shown) replacing the current route 118 service. O-Train no longer exists, although it could be added in.

I also made a fantasy map of a BRT/LRT system in Kingston:

-Blue line: Based on the current 501/502 Express route, with stops upgraded to full stations with true names and a Train Station stop added at the railway overpass on Princess Street--a pedestrian bridge would be built connecting that to the station
-Orange line: Based roughly on planned NS Express route. From downtown heads north on Bagot, turns down to Rideaucrest, then north along Rideau to Davis Tannery redevelopment site and to Division st then north to Weller, along Weller to Montreal then up Montreal to the 401, down the 401 to Hwy 15 and down the 15 & 2 over the causeway back downtown
-Green line: The planned second EW express route. Unchanged except for station locations which I put in myself as they haven't been decided on yet
-Brown line: My own line. Starting from Queens to downtown then up Princess to Division St, then up Division to John Counter, down John Counter/Princess to Cat Centre. Could possibly be extended further west into new developments.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by theKB

I agree. I can't see it being practical to run across the water there and it may face many logistical issues.

I could see eventually (many many years in the future) putting in an Streetcar/Light Rail system in North Van/West Van. The densification and growth seems to be centred around the sea bus terminal anyway.

Here's my idea for rapid transit on the north shore:


North shore skytrain by AMetalnikov, on Flickr

The eastern end continues down to Brentwood, Metrotown, and ultimately to Richmond Centre. But this shows the actual viable possibility

[Beedok]

Since no one else did it.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Since no one else did it.

How can you seriously have an Iqaluit subway without having a cut and cover tunnel going under the Road to Nowhere all the way to nowhere?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Wow. Lots of Ottawa maps already... but I'll feel free to add more. This is my ultimate Ottawa fantasy metro system map:

I would like to propose one change; I would switch up the Gatineau (Yellow) and Aylmer (Pink) lines once in Ottawa. I've been at La Cité for many years, and I have known a lot of people from Gatineau, but none from Aylmer.

Everything else is pretty much gold.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

How can you seriously have an Iqaluit subway without having a cut and cover tunnel going under the Road to Nowhere all the way to nowhere?

They've got a BRT route. Cut and cover would technically mean no road to nowhere for a while. You can't close the road to nowhere!

[Dr Nevergold]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

My dream for Toronto: it only really includes a couple of things that aren't already planned for.. (Eglinton LRT to the airport, Sheppard West subway, DRL to Eglinton, and a BRT extension in Markham)

Yellow: Subway
Dark Blue: Grade seperated LRT
Light Blue: at grade LRT
Orange: BRT
Red: Streetcar
Black: All Day 2 Way GO commuter rail

I think we have established that Toronto will never build another transit project again since the mode of transport has become politicised. This hyper obsession over the mode of transport as opposed to just building it is mind boggling. The Eglinton LRT line is probably the only major cross-town project Toronto will have seen from the 1980's until the 2030's due to this insane bickering and people's mentality that only their way counts. It would be nice if Toronto could walk and chew gum at the same time, like build a DRL subway AND build light rail simultaneously. You know, like normal people do.

Money should be no object, if it takes $50 billion to build out a new subway, light rail, and commuter rail system then so be it. That's what it costs. The money is there if fighter jets are pared back and if the feds pitch in more.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I would like to propose one change; I would switch up the Gatineau (Yellow) and Aylmer (Pink) lines once in Ottawa. I've been at La Cité for many years, and I have known a lot of people from Gatineau, but none from Aylmer.

Everything else is pretty much gold.

Ottawa fantasy map, take 2. Incorporated your suggestion--it also allowed me to use the Orange line as one of the Aylmer routes instead of having one line split. I also added in that crosstown BRT I talked about.

Damn pixellation... it's hard to see in this image, but the two Transitway routes interline between Baseline and Heron.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ottawa fantasy map, take 2. Incorporated your suggestion--it also allowed me to use the Orange line as one of the Aylmer routes instead of having one line split. I also added in that crosstown BRT I talked about.

Damn pixellation... it's hard to see in this image, but the two Transitway routes interline between Baseline and Heron.

One thing I always notice about the Ottawa future transit maps (and this is true of official documents from the City of Ottawa as well) is how numerous and close together the stations area on the southern segment through Orleans (for those who don't know it is the line going right (green I think) towards Frank Kenny.

Since the maps are not to scale it does not give a true idea but knowing the area these stations are quite close together - not by global inner big city standards, but certainly by the standards of what exists or is planned for the rest of the metro area.

[1overcosc]

The Orleans section of the Green line, between Silverbirch and Frank Kenny has stop spacing of 1.1 km, on average. The Orleans section of the Red line has 1.4 km. There is a different, but not a huge one (map scaling has exaggerated the difference). That difference is related to the fact that whereas the red line is in a freeway median, the green line is in a boulevard median (my south Orleans line runs straight down Innes instead of that weird greenfield route the city wants), meaning the latter has more connectivity with the local area, spurring a more distributed intensification, whereas the former would result mainly in 'node' intensification at stations.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Ottawa fantasy map, take 2. Incorporated your suggestion--it also allowed me to use the Orange line as one of the Aylmer routes instead of having one line split. I also added in that crosstown BRT I talked about.

Damn pixellation... it's hard to see in this image, but the two Transitway routes interline between Baseline and Heron.

Top shape!

[KnoxfordGuy]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

Sorry, no preatty pictures.

For Fredericton New Brunswick, my dream would be to see the following:

* Full Service run hourly between 6AM to 11PM, 7 days a week, with some routes going to half hour service during weekday peaks. (Saturday and Sunday service could trim back the service period; say running 9 to 9 on Sundays; but consistant hourly service is a must)

* Three transit hubs set up; Kings Place, Regent Mall and Two Nations Crossing.

* Routes spreading out from those hubs, and an express route running between those three hubs so transfers should be easier.

* Connections to Fredericton's outer communities (Lincoln, Hanwell, even Oromocto, with a sub hub in Oromocto to serve the town and provide a link to CFB Gagetown). Make it a Capital Transit system instead of Freddy Transit.

Much of this could be done now, but there doesn't seem to be much will to do it yet. The city itself is large enough to support at least the first and even the second part. The main challenge is it's in a catch 22 that it doesn't want to get out of. The 'demand' isn't there for more service; but the current service is so bad, the demand won't manifest itself. (Seriously, 2 hour breaks in service, especially on main lines, is unacceptable).

I'd love to see this city do a year long experiment of providing European style bus transit (regular hourly/half hourly service to most of the city and surrounding area) to see how it would fly.

I would be happy if buses ran on Sunday and if there was an express from downtown straight up Regent to the Regent Mall and back.

[Innsertnamehere]

My concept for a London LRT line:



It would have a ton of transit generating destinations along it.

2 mega Hospitals
2 malls bookending the line
downtown
Western University



It would run on rail corridors in 2 locations (highlighted with the thicker lines), and mostly travel on a side of the road right of way to prevent unnecessary traffic light crossings.

[ssiguy]

That looks like a good route for London and I see some of the southern section uses the old Port Stanley to London Railway corridor. Is that corridor still in actual use?

[caltrane74]

My transit fantasy is for Dundas West, is for it become a major transport and residential hub. It has a subway at Bloor, a streetcar, Bus connections to the junction, as well as the Airport Express Line and the Kitchener Line. All these different transit lines will be connected at Dundas West Station.

New mid-rise development to add more people and absorb some of the transit capacity in addition to adding some vibrancy to Bloor Street. To the East Dufferin has some major pedestrian traffic because of the Dufferin Bus and the Dufferin Mall, but lacks the transit options that Dundas West has like the streetcar and Air Rail Link. So it looks like we are beginning to see some developments, residential and transit improvements that will make the area more applealing.

[caltrane74]

Article from the Epoch Times which kind of follows up on my post from yesterday

If you live near one of those stops you could get down to Union Station quicker than if you lived at Yonge and Bloor,” Milborne said.

Though Metrolinx will not provide information about travel times between stops, the trip from Union to Pearson should take only 25 minutes. And what does Milborne see as a potential result of these two stops?

“You’re going to see an explosion of values and volumes around the Union Pearson Express.”

One of those stops will be at Bloor St. W. and Dundas St. W., where projects are already springing up. There are several larger projects, with many boutique buildings dotting Bloor West. It certainly seems like quick access to the downtown core while getting some relief on price, and larger units will make sense to many.

The only thing this smart guys seems to forget is that you have to wait 15 minutes for the Express Train from the Airport, whereas at Yonge and Bloor you might wait a maximum of 5 minutes for a trains. Plus the cost of a ticket from Dundas West to Union will likely cost at least 15 dollars - ONE WAY!!!

[Innsertnamehere]

^ no it won't. $7-$8 maybe, not $15, and even then you would have peak regular GO service where it is $5. there is no reason Metrolinx will be charging a flat $15 fare on the entire line. that said however it is a "luxury" service, with leather seats and wifi, meaning you shouldn't be expecting to be paying $2.70 to take it.

What you need to do is buy at Mimico or some other close station on the lakeshore line, 30 minute service all day with cheap condos and 8-10 minute peak service. Rouge Hill has a large subdivision full of townhomes and is a 35ish minute ride to downtown, and you can walk to the GO station. that would be a great place to buy if you want a suburban environment with easy access to the core, Its a bit of a hidden gem in the city IMO.

Even in Pickering you can get downtown in 25 minutes on an express train. (though they don't run off peak and off peak trains take roughly 40 minutes)

[caltrane74]

I wonder will Metrolinx will announce the pricing.. I'm curious to know the cost of this.