HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 6:26 PM
misher's Avatar
misher misher is offline
BANNED
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,537
Harbour Air to become the world's first airline with electric-only aircraft

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/harb...ctric-aircraft

Quote:
Harbour Air is set to become the world’s first airline with an all-electric fleet.

The short-haul seaplane airline announced today it has partnered with Redmond, Washington-based magniX to convert its fossil fuel-powered seaplanes into an electric fleet powered by the magni500 — a 750 horsepower all-electric motor.
I know we've been discussing electric power for cars and trucks in their forum so for this to happen now is an interesting development.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2019, 9:29 PM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,433
This is going to be interesting to watch. I'm surprised by their time frame - I didn't think that battery technology had advanced to the point where it's feasible in aircraft yet. The biggest disadvantage of electric aircraft is the mass and limited energy capacity of the batteries.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #3  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2019, 3:17 AM
Trainguy Trainguy is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Posts: 689
Quote:
Originally Posted by aberdeen5698 View Post
This is going to be interesting to watch. I'm surprised by their time frame - I didn't think that battery technology had advanced to the point where it's feasible in aircraft yet. The biggest disadvantage of electric aircraft is the mass and limited energy capacity of the batteries.
Not going to happen in near future. Flight is all about weight and the batteries are just too heavy to carry itself and passengers for any distance to make it pay. We will see I guess.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #4  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2019, 1:08 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 21,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
Not going to happen in near future. Flight is all about weight and the batteries are just too heavy to carry itself and passengers for any distance to make it pay. We will see I guess.
This is the perfect application: low altitude, smaller plane, short flights.

I wonder if this will finally end the noise complaints from coal harbour?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #5  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2019, 1:25 PM
Alex Mackinnon's Avatar
Alex Mackinnon Alex Mackinnon is offline
Can I has a tunnel?
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: East Van
Posts: 2,097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trainguy View Post
Not going to happen in near future. Flight is all about weight and the batteries are just too heavy to carry itself and passengers for any distance to make it pay. We will see I guess.
I don't think that kind of development will take too much time. There's growing market pressure driving research.

Look at how many more lithium battery production capacity there is now than 5 years ago, and how much more is expected to come online. As soon as you have the pressure of money driving a field, developments tend to happen much faster.

If you want a good example, look at how much R&D was spent on computers before and after they became a consumer product. That has only grown as more was spent on them after they became a household product.

High capacity rechargeable batteries are going to go from the thing you only had in your cell phone and laptop, to the thing you have $15,000 of sitting in your car, and maybe another $15,000 of in your house to keep the lights on. They're going to be in every substation, factory, tractor, truck, car, motorcycle, train, and maybe plane. The more use cases pile on, the greater the development pace will be. That's how positive feedback works.
__________________
"It's ok, I'm an engineer!" -Famous last words
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #6  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2019, 4:52 PM
Bdawe Bdawe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sunrise
Posts: 535
There's a reason that this would start with premium-service short-haul flights in small planes.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #7  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2019, 2:07 AM
jlousa's Avatar
jlousa jlousa is offline
Ferris Wheel Hater
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 8,371
I'm not sure the planes will be noticeable quieter. My understanding is most of the noise now is from the propellers and that won't change with the electric motors. Guess we'll see or hear soon enough
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #8  
Old Posted Apr 1, 2019, 11:35 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Toroncouver
Posts: 12,629
I always though noise on prop planes is the blades breaking the sound barrier from what my old man told me. He could have been totally messing with me though, he's been know to do that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #9  
Old Posted Apr 2, 2019, 1:50 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 21,676
It's probably a mix of prop and engine noise. Muffling the sound isn't the #1 priority on planes. You can hear it when they start them up down at the harbour.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #10  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2019, 3:10 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 38,327
Harbour Air to test world's first electric-battery commercial airplane next month
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/harb...-seaplane-test


Retrofit progress in October 2019 of the first Harbour Air ePlane. (Harbour Air)
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/harb...-seaplane-test

Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #11  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2019, 4:01 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 9,554
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
I always though noise on prop planes is the blades breaking the sound barrier from what my old man told me. He could have been totally messing with me though, he's been know to do that.
Research paper on noise from float planes.

http://www.faegre.org/files/AF-seaplane-noise-2002.pdf
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #12  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2019, 6:04 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 9,554
Slow turnaround times for flights.

"Ganzarski said the planes will be designed for recharging by Tesla-style 500-kilowatt superchargers, at a 1-to-1 ratio of flight time to charging time. That means, for instance, that the plane would need an hour of charging time to get back to full power after an hourlong flight."

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/magnix...test-december/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #13  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2019, 6:50 AM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Looks like they're retrofitting a Beaver. I wonder if they'll need to go through the hoops of getting a new type certificate?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #14  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2019, 6:33 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 9,554
Just certify it as a big drone

Quote:
Ganzarski and McDougall hope that Harbour Air can get fully certified by 2021. But that won’t be a walk in the park. Holding notes that “it’s a major technical challenge, and comes down to offsetting the weight of the battery systems and the regulatory regime you’re flying under.” The latter part of that assessment could be tough, he warns: “It’s a long process with a lot of paperwork involved. Transport Canada is a very conservative organization.”


As things stand, Transport Canada doesn’t have a path to certify electric aircraft for commercial use. “Any new technology like this, it’s cutting-edge, complex. And our first concern is safety, so that’s why we like to get involved early,” says Terry Beech, Burnaby North–Seymour MP who, before the 2019 election, served as parliamentary secretary to the federal minister of transport.

So even though Harbour Air hasn’t yet filed an application for certification, the federal government has been entrenched in the process. In fact, Transport Canada recently had a familiarization meeting to better understand the technology involved with MagniX’s electric propulsion unit.

“It depends on how thorough the applicant is and how many issues there are, because safety is our top issue and no corners get cut in these situations,” says Beech when asked how long it might take for Harbour Air to win federal approval. “The only example off the top of my head is [Bombardier’s] C Series aircraft. From prototype to certification it took about eight years, so it can be quite lengthy.”

That’s obviously a sobering example for McDougall, who was inducted into Canada’s Aviation Hall of Fame this year. But if he’s nervous, he doesn’t show it. Although Transport Canada doesn’t have the electrification certification process mapped out yet, the Federal Aviation Administration (the U.S. body that oversees aviation regulation) is “a bit further ahead,” he explains.

Harbour Air is working with both organizations and will take the “path of least resistance,” says McDougall, adding that “there’s a bilateral [agreement between the U.S. and Canada], so anything that gets certified in one country is easily certifiable in another.”

Two years might still seem like a stretch from where Harbour Air is today, but again, if McDougall is concerned, he isn’t letting on.
https://www.bcbusiness.ca/Electric-A...l-free-airline
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #15  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2019, 8:11 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 21,676
Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Slow turnaround times for flights.

"Ganzarski said the planes will be designed for recharging by Tesla-style 500-kilowatt superchargers, at a 1-to-1 ratio of flight time to charging time. That means, for instance, that the plane would need an hour of charging time to get back to full power after an hourlong flight."

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/magnix...test-december/
What is the current turnaround time? I'm thinking maybe 30 mins?
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #16  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2019, 8:13 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: East OV!
Posts: 21,676
One would think the current Liberal government would be pushing hard to make this particular approval process as fast and painless as possible (while being safe of course).
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #17  
Old Posted Nov 30, 2019, 8:30 PM
djmk's Avatar
djmk djmk is offline
victory in near
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: North Vancouver
Posts: 1,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Slow turnaround times for flights.

"Ganzarski said the planes will be designed for recharging by Tesla-style 500-kilowatt superchargers, at a 1-to-1 ratio of flight time to charging time. That means, for instance, that the plane would need an hour of charging time to get back to full power after an hourlong flight."

https://www.geekwire.com/2019/magnix...test-december/
Its only a 35 minute flight from Vancouver to Victoria. That kind of turn around is possible. Plus I would assume each plane would have 3 batteries (at departure, arrival and in the air)
__________________
i have no idea what's going on
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #18  
Old Posted Dec 1, 2019, 12:48 AM
aberdeen5698's Avatar
aberdeen5698 aberdeen5698 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 4,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by djmk View Post
...I would assume each plane would have 3 batteries (at departure, arrival and in the air)
??? What exactly are you saying here? There's one battery in the aircraft, and it's not likely to be easily swappable as these things are very heavy. The 60kWh battery in my Chevy Bolt weighs 1000 lbs, and the aircraft is probably going to need something larger than that.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #19  
Old Posted Dec 10, 2019, 10:40 PM
Changing City's Avatar
Changing City Changing City is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 5,900
__________________
Contemporary Vancouver development blog, https://changingcitybook.wordpress.com/ Then and now Vancouver blog https://changingvancouver.wordpress.com/
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #20  
Old Posted Dec 11, 2019, 3:55 AM
Migrant_Coconut's Avatar
Migrant_Coconut Migrant_Coconut is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Kitsilano/Fairview
Posts: 8,386
"UNA VOLTA CHEE AVRAAAIIIIIIII......." (/s)

Seriously, happy for Harbour Air, but "making short- to mid-range flights more economical than driving" sounds really optimistic.
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada > Alberta & British Columbia > Vancouver > Transportation & Infrastructure
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 7:28 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.