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  #10821  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 4:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottk View Post
A lot of the girls I work with really don’t feel safe taking the train home from downtown late at night. Can’t say that I blame them... with all the homeless people and “scrubs” on the train at night. Shame that downtown seems to be infested with such people. I don’t even walk on 16th anymore, I’d rather walk 15th and hopefully be accosted by less homeless people and heroin junkies
Well the ACLU has done all it can to ensure that such people be allowed to congregate on the Mall. Heck, DPD can't even randomly beat a few of them to force them elsewhere, let alone shoot them!
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  #10822  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 5:43 PM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Yeah.... this is an issue in downtown. The Union Station area isn't as bad as other portions of downtown, but at some point there needs to be some enforcement to not allow these people to congregate in public areas. It does get really old after a while.....
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  #10823  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 6:02 PM
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Yes. Shame that a public space is for everyone.
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  #10824  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 6:28 PM
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Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
Yes. Shame that a public space is for everyone.
Constitutional rights are only for mainstream Americans- not deviants. Deviants deserve to be shot, tased, beaten, etc. until they understand that they're not welcome mixing it up with the normals. At least that's the stance I'm detecting with the last few comments....

There's always privatization of the Mall. That would solve a number of these issues.
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Last edited by wong21fr; Oct 12, 2017 at 8:51 PM.
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  #10825  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2017, 8:48 PM
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Welp, now it's all up to the PUC to rubber-stamp the FRA's approval:

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...ting-on-g.html
The Denver Business Journal
Quote:
Federal railroad officials have granted RTD permission to resume testing of systems on the stalled G Line to Wheat Ridge and Arvada...
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  #10826  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 7:10 AM
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Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
Yes. Shame that a public space is for everyone.
Yes! We should make the mall a haven for the homeless people! Encourage as much panhandling as possible, see how many thousands of transients we can pack onto the mall at any given time! It's a public space after all.


The fact of the matter is that when women feel unsafe walking down the main pedestrian street in Denver, that is a huge issue. Hell, sometimes I feel unsafe on 16th. The fact that open drug usage is tolerated on what should be Denver's main pedestrian street is appalling.

The mall has a reputation around the city as being unsafe and dirty, and the reputation is somewhat true. I am embarrassed for the tourists I see walking along the mall.

Do you have a point or are you just being contrarian ?
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  #10827  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 1:38 PM
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Ha. Sure, I'd like to talk about social service solutions through partnerships, diversions in the justice system (but they do come with issues themselves), expanded intergovernmental action, etc etc etc.

EDIT: And we can also talk about how public safety issues affecting women and the resources to assit. I'm sure you knew all about it. And I'm sure you knew that all these issues of public safety and public spaces are not zero-sum, though they do come with problems.

But no. Let's make Denver for you only.
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Last edited by seventwenty; Oct 13, 2017 at 2:18 PM.
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  #10828  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 7:59 PM
Mountain man Mountain man is offline
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^^ Come on guys, you don't want to start looking like a Salt Lake thread.
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  #10829  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 8:14 PM
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^ if Denver can not get this issue under control soon it will begin to have serious negative impacts on downtown.
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  #10830  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 8:25 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Welp, now it's all up to the PUC to rubber-stamp the FRA's approval:

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/n...ting-on-g.html
The Denver Business Journal
All I've got to add is "Who's on First?"

other than to say if the PUC has some specific action they need RTD to take, then specify it or get the hell out of the way.
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  #10831  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 9:04 PM
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Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
Ha. Sure, I'd like to talk about social service solutions through...
You're links are very interesting which leaves me with many questions but they're not particularly relevant. However I was once-upon-a-time quite liberal as well as being married to a therapist. But I always had a practical bent too. I can add that my son has an impressive list of HS friends who are no longer among us be it from an opiate OD or auto/motorcycle crashes where being under the influence was likely a factor. Talk about a waste of human capital. What's impressive about Denver is the significant investment put into working with those who do have problems.

So far as the 16th Street Mall goes, tens of $millions in improvements are needed and it needs to be a place for everybody and where everybody feels safe and isn't harassed. It's way too important of an investment to let the inmates run the asylum. DTP and the City have both invested heavily in making the mall a safer/better environment. While in a way it's unfortunate that they even have to but it is what it is and lots of money is being spent.

This also makes for a segue to my next comment.
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  #10832  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 9:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottk View Post
^ if Denver can not get this issue under control soon it will begin to have serious negative impacts on downtown.
There's dedicated police patrols, private security, a camping ban, an upcoming smoking ban, etc., etc., etc. It's been made pretty unwelcome to the filth of society, but apparently that's not enough for some people. But, what do you think should be implemented? Homeless sweeps with confiscation of property, stop and frisk policies, loosened rules of force. These are all policies that could be introduced or ramped up- though they might be unconstitutional.

It's a public space at the nexus of several transit lines and located in close proximity to most of the transient/homeless services in the Denver Metro area. It's going to be nearly impossible to quash it to the point that you don't see the issue barring major changes such as privatizing the Mall, moving all of the shelters to Littleton, etc.
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  #10833  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Mountain man View Post
^^ Come on guys, you don't want to start looking like a Salt Lake thread.
This is a really toxic attitude. Its important to address issues like this without being told that any and all discourse is an issue... arguments exist for a reason.
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  #10834  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Scottk View Post
A lot of the girls I work with really don’t feel safe taking the train home from downtown late at night. Can’t say that I blame them... with all the homeless people and “scrubs” on the train at night. Shame that downtown seems to be infested with such people. I don’t even walk on 16th anymore, I’d rather walk 15th and hopefully be accosted by less homeless people and heroin junkies
Wow, I wasn't aware but not totally surprised. Phoenix has had their issues but I hadn't read much recently and their ridership is strong so I overlooked them. But, for example, they have given passes out to many homeless and given the desert heat it's been understandable. However...

BREAKING:
Valley Metro crackdown targets bad behavior on light rail
Oct. 13, 2017 by Jessica Boehm - azcentral.com
Quote:
Valley Metro CEO Scott Smith says he hears one common refrain from people fed up with public transportation: "I won't ride the light rail anymore."

It worries him. "The perception of light rail as a safe transportation has suffered. And we hear it a lot," Smith said.
What's complicating is the bad behavior isn't necessarily 'criminal.'

So what are we gonna do Boss?
Quote:
His agency hopes to fix the light rail's public image by implementing a new code of conduct that prohibits unruly behavior and gives light-rail security guards more flexibility to remove passengers.

The new rules will allow security guards to remove riders for loud or obnoxious antics, even if they're not technically breaking any laws. They will also crack down on passengers who ride the trains back and forth without exiting all day.
Whoa, a $450,000 budget for signage and implementation; what's that going to look like? Nvm, the images blow up too big but the signage is impressive. RTD, I assume has similar rules so it's all in communicating them and following through by enforcing them.
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  #10835  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
It's a public space at the nexus of several transit lines and located in close proximity to most of the transient/homeless services in the Denver Metro area. It's going to be nearly impossible to quash it to the point that you don't see the issue barring major changes such as privatizing the Mall, moving all of the shelters to Littleton, etc.
I forgot... Who dis?
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  #10836  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2017, 12:41 AM
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I forgot... Who dis?
Little Wong of course.
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  #10837  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2017, 4:44 AM
Mountain man Mountain man is offline
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Originally Posted by jubguy3 View Post
This is a really toxic attitude. Its important to address issues like this without being told that any and all discourse is an issue... arguments exist for a reason.
Take a joke man, don’t be sensitive. Besides I’m not that far off, it’s conversations like this that always start in the Salt Lake thread that turned it into the dumpster fire that it is. Don’t believe be go back and look. It’s unproductive, especially to argue the stupid points like “but no, let’s make Denver only for you.”

Also besides, you guys are currently off on a two page rant arguing about the correct way to properly say an address. So don’t expect people not to poke a little fun your way.
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  #10838  
Old Posted Oct 14, 2017, 7:03 AM
Denver Denver is offline
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Originally Posted by seventwenty View Post
Ha. Sure, I'd like to talk about social service solutions through partnerships, diversions in the justice system (but they do come with issues themselves), expanded intergovernmental action, etc etc etc.

EDIT: And we can also talk about how public safety issues affecting women and the resources to assit. I'm sure you knew all about it. And I'm sure you knew that all these issues of public safety and public spaces are not zero-sum, though they do come with problems.

But no. Let's make Denver for you only.
Seventwenty, what are the chances your work for the Public Defender's office?

I agree to you to a certain degree. However, the second someone starts using a public space to the exclusion of others, such as using drugs, threatening people who do not given them money, or urinating on the side walk, is it truly a public space? The right to use public space in my opinion comes with an unwritten rule that you need to be respectful of everyone else using the public space.
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  #10839  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2017, 2:26 AM
twister244 twister244 is offline
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Originally Posted by Denver View Post
I agree to you to a certain degree. However, the second someone starts using a public space to the exclusion of others, such as using drugs, threatening people who do not given them money, or urinating on the side walk, is it truly a public space? The right to use public space in my opinion comes with an unwritten rule that you need to be respectful of everyone else using the public space.
This. All of this. There is this unspoken social contract when you are in a public space. If a homeless person is chilling with a cup and a sign asking for money, or playing music to try to gather some money, I have no issue with this. However, this issue lies with people who begin to violate this social contract by harassing people for money, harassing other homeless/transients, urinating in public, and partaking in smoking/drugs in public. I feel like I haven't lived in Denver long enough to know if issues have improved or not with time on the mall. However, even up through this past summer, we have had multiple incidents of people being attacked on the mall. Perhaps I should have been more specific in my previous statement, specifying my beef is with those who create issues for others on the mall. And yes, the public space is for everyone, which means everyone should be able to enjoy the space equally.
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  #10840  
Old Posted Oct 15, 2017, 5:47 PM
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seventwenty seventwenty is offline
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Who makes the rules for this contract, Mr. Rousseau? Once you start making implied law, how do you enforce it? We already have problems with even enforcement of the laws we currently have.

Sure, I will acknowledge there are issues with the Mall, and the reasonable minds can differ on what needs to be done.

That doesn't mean I'm for a "just kick them off the Mall" approach. Where are they supposed to go? What services do they have? What about underlying problems associated with homelessness such as addiction and mental health problems? What about a cycle or criminality because now the homeless have a criminal record? The DOJ once weighed in on this matter. And some (but not many including RTD) transit agencies have form plans to deal with homelessness. As have other cities, like LA.

It's more complicated than just the Mall. And Denver's recognized this. If you want to read Denver's efforts, go here or here. Those are the Road Home plans, started in 2005, started under then-Mayor Hickenlooper, which had mixed results.

In May, Mayor Hancock spoke about revised homelessness plans, the HOPE program. You can read various action plans here, though not all are listed just yet.
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