HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #981  
Old Posted Oct 3, 2017, 5:27 AM
Marshal Marshal is offline
from the inside out
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 896
Yes, Alex Fraser lanes are fine . . . but Metro has many examples to sample if you like driving on the lines: the worst: Patullo Bridge - of course, oldest and narrowest + a bend; Queensborough Bridge - tighter would be a problem; Oak Street Bridge - same. The lane widths of the downtown bridges are fine, but the lanes themselves keep disappearing.
__________________
. . . the third eye squirms when you do that . . .
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #982  
Old Posted Oct 9, 2017, 4:56 PM
Dwils01's Avatar
Dwils01 Dwils01 is offline
Urban Fanactic
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Surrey
Posts: 3,094
Some pictures of the International Bridge under construction in Sault Ste. Marie from 1960 to 1962.












View more here: https://www.sootoday.com/great-stori...1960-62-735616
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #983  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 8:07 PM
LeftCoaster's Avatar
LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Torcouver
Posts: 9,831
Damn that's cool. Not many big steel bridges like that any more... at least not that I've seen.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #984  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 9:24 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Tropic of Sir Galahad
Posts: 29,289
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #985  
Old Posted Oct 10, 2017, 9:45 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 15,571
Design-wise, looks similar to the Trois-Rivières bridge, which was also built in the 1960s.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #986  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 12:01 PM
nephersir7 nephersir7 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Montreal
Posts: 117
Champlain update



Reply With Quote
     
     
  #987  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 1:21 PM
MolsonExport's Avatar
MolsonExport MolsonExport is offline
The Vomit Bag.
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The Tropic of Sir Galahad
Posts: 29,289
great shots. finally, some very long overdue bridge replacements for Montreal. Champlain has been moldering most of my lifetime.
__________________
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. John Kenneth Galbraith
We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented. Sometimes we must interfere.Elie Wiesel
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #988  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 5:54 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 15,571
Almost seems wasteful to demolish the old one - if it gets closed to heavy traffic (semi trucks), maybe it could be kept as a second bridge with only moderate investments? Quebec's new (edit: 1970s... not actually that new) bridge is the one that gets most of the traffic by far, but the old bridge next to it helps relieve some of that pressure at rush hour.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #989  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 6:10 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Almost seems wasteful to demolish the old one - if it gets closed to heavy traffic (semi trucks), maybe it could be kept as a second bridge with only moderate investments? Quebec's new (edit: 1970s... not actually that new) bridge is the one that gets most of the traffic by far, but the old bridge next to it helps relieve some of that pressure at rush hour.
The engineering report "The Future of the Champlain Bridge Crossing" seems to indicate that the existing structure has serious deficiencies that cannot be exactly quantified. The costs of maintaining both the current bridge in the short term and constructing a new one were about equal to the cost of maintaining the existing one for 50 years.

After what happened in Minneapolis with the I-35W bridge in 2007, I'd imagine the federal government is seriously averse to the liability involved with keeping the old bridge, given its condition.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #990  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 6:23 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 15,571
Yeah, but that's because the current volumes of traffic on the Champlain, including tons of commercial trucking, have been way above the predicted original design parameters. It definitely couldn't continue to handle that safely in the long term, so it made more financial sense to build a new bridge. However, the addition of the new bridge, which will be the one getting all the heavy traffic, lowers the bar for the old one.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #991  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 6:41 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Yeah, but that's because the current volumes of traffic on the Champlain, including tons of commercial trucking, have been way above the predicted original design parameters. It definitely couldn't continue to handle that safely in the long term, so it made more financial sense to build a new bridge.
The report mentions that the bridge is into its exponential decay curve with respect to its conditions - even decreasing the load on it may not significantly lengthen the bridge's lifespan. While load is an important consideration for lifespan, issues such as corrosion from salt (which is independent of load) play a major factor as well.

There's a bunch of problems they list - girders, piers, crossbeams, quality of the concrete used. It doesn't seem that these are easily addressed. Sad to see it go, but you wouldn't catch me driving across it in 20 years if there was a new bridge next to it, traffic be damned.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #992  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 6:47 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Lévis, QC
Posts: 15,571
Quote:
Originally Posted by wave46 View Post
There's a bunch of problems they list - girders, piers, crossbeams, quality of the concrete used. It doesn't seem that these are easily addressed.
Again, most of that (what's acceptable structurally or not) is directly tied to the load the bridge has to bear.


Quote:
Sad to see it go, but you wouldn't catch me driving across it in 20 years if there was a new bridge next to it, traffic be damned.
I probably would. I very rarely use the old bridge to cross to Quebec City but the #1 reason for that by far is that it's extremely poorly connected to the freeway network, unlike the newer bridge. I would imagine they'll make sure to avoid that "mistake" if the old Champlain bridge is kept (which isn't in the plans, but you never know).

The big difference of course is that the Champlain currently has the freeway arriving right into it, which the old Quebec bridge obviously never had - so I don't think they could even possibly make that mistake if they tried.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #993  
Old Posted Oct 13, 2017, 7:03 PM
wave46 wave46 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
Again, most of that (what's acceptable structurally or not) is directly tied to the load the bridge has to bear.




I probably would. I very rarely use the old bridge to cross to Quebec City but the #1 reason for that by far is that it's extremely poorly connected to the freeway network, unlike the newer bridge. I would imagine they'll make sure to avoid that "mistake" if the old Champlain bridge is kept (which isn't in the plans, but you never know).

The big difference of course is that the Champlain currently has the freeway arriving right into it, which the old Quebec bridge obviously never had - so I don't think they could even possibly make that mistake if they tried.
I've no problems with old bridges in and of themselves. Plenty of old infrastructure works wonderfully well and if the engineering reports indicate that the bridges are in acceptable condition, I'll gladly use them (as you mention, the old Quebec Bridge).

When a structural engineering consulting firm is raising doubts about the condition of the bridge and the long-term viability of it, I grow concerned.

Would I drive across it today? Sure.

Would it be good for 20 years? Maybe - but given the liability of a catastrophic failure, what organization would run that risk? Especially when a publicly released engineering report has casted doubt on it.

I don't think there's much merit to saving it.

Future of the Champlain Bridge Crossing
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:18 AM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.