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  #21  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 8:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am on board with you on this and have extensive family experience on this question.

One side of my family is from one of the most economically depressed parts of the Maritimes.

I have a lot of trouble reconciling that one the one hand

a) most of my cousins complain of not being able to find jobs "down home", and say that they'd love to stay if only there were jobs

and on the other

b) that employers in their region say they can't find people to fill a whole bunch of positions

So which one is it, a) or b)?

My sense is that while the job market kinda sucks and that there certainly aren't enough jobs for all the young people who grew up there, a lot of people who don't really want to stay will say that they would have liked to in order to preserve appearances and not appear disloyal to their hometown or region.
Are the relatives who say this part of an aspirational urban upper/educated middle class?

It seems to me that the stakes have gotten higher in the last few decades in terms of what people from this class consider to be "the good life" and where they want to settle. And, increasingly, it's a lifestyle that's almost impossible to achieve in a city of less than 100,000 that's more than an hour's drive from a larger population centre.

This could include everything from a good piano teacher, schools that have AP/IB/gifted/whatever programs, access to an international airport where you can jet off to a sun destination relatively easily, a decent grocery store that stocks things like escarole or Asian ingredients, decent restaurants, etc., etc.

When you factor these life demands with the fact that a region has to provide upwardly mobile jobs for two income earners, often in very different industries/sectors, and you basically can only expect to see growth in 10-12 Canadian cities and their surrounding hinterlands.
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  #22  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 8:33 PM
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Originally Posted by hipster duck View Post
Are the relatives who say this part of an aspirational urban upper/educated middle class?

It seems to me that the stakes have gotten higher in the last few decades in terms of what people from this class consider to be "the good life" and where they want to settle. And, increasingly, it's a lifestyle that's almost impossible to achieve in a city of less than 100,000 that's more than an hour's drive from a larger population centre.

This could include everything from a good piano teacher, schools that have AP/IB/gifted/whatever programs, access to an international airport where you can jet off to a sun destination relatively easily, a decent grocery store that stocks things like escarole or Asian ingredients, decent restaurants, etc., etc.

When you factor these life demands with the fact that a region has to provide upwardly mobile jobs for two income earners, often in very different industries/sectors, and you basically can only expect to see growth in 10-12 Canadian cities and their surrounding hinterlands.
There is at least part of that to it I'm sure.

I believe all of them are at least college or university educated. (I am talking about more than a dozen cousins all told. In their 30s and 40s.)

One couple (cousin + spouse) were really, really determined to remain in the area and both found good-paying jobs in the health care sector and recently began their family there.
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  #23  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 8:40 PM
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"Entertainment and shopping options" seem to be a big deal to my exiled Acadian family members who live in Quebec and Ontario.

In particular, being close to an NHL-sized arena for hockey games and other events is a big selling point for a place to live. Weird, isn't it? I guess I've never thought of that since most of my post-teen life I've lived in striking distance of either Montreal or Toronto (and later Ottawa) for this purpose.
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  #24  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 9:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am on board with you on this and have extensive family experience on this question.

One side of my family is from one of the most economically depressed parts of the Maritimes.

I have a lot of trouble reconciling that one the one hand

a) most of my cousins complain of not being able to find jobs "down home", and say that they'd love to stay if only there were jobs

and on the other

b) that employers in their region say they can't find people to fill a whole bunch of positions

So which one is it, a) or b)?

My sense is that while the job market kinda sucks and that there certainly aren't enough jobs for all the young people who grew up there, a lot of people who don't really want to stay will say that they would have liked to in order to preserve appearances and not appear disloyal to their hometown or region.
The way it seems with some professions (e.g. nurses) is the wage offered here doesn't reflect the wage across the rest of the country. So you can stay here, work your butt off (because of the nursing shortage), and get paid less, or move away, make more money, and work more regular hours. It's like this in a lot of the industries, stay here for a paycut or move away. You have to know what you value your time for, and decide then accordingly.

With the doctor shortage, it simply comes down to these young graduates not wanting to move outside the city. I don't blame them either. Living in a town of 500 people where you know no one and are isolated from everything is no way to live. It isn't a huge tax burden to operate privately owned doctors clinics in many of the rural areas of the province, so I'm not advocating for centralizing health. Our hospitals are already centralized so I wouldn't change anything about provincial health in that regard.

Ultimately it usually comes down to if you want to stay here, you're doing it on a "hometown discount".
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  #25  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 9:27 PM
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In the previous thread I was asked by kwoldtimer

Out of curiosity, how did you decide to go for a Rav4 rather than a Honda CRV (Alliston)?

I like Honda but prefer Toyota vehicles. One big reason for me is that Toyota's world Winter testing site is in Timmins so I know for sure that their vehicles will work well in our climate.
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  #26  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 9:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
In the previous thread I was asked by kwoldtimer

Out of curiosity, how did you decide to go for a Rav4 rather than a Honda CRV (Alliston)?

I like Honda but prefer Toyota vehicles. One big reason for me is that Toyota's world Winter testing site is in Timmins so I know for sure that their vehicles will work well in our climate.
We have been conducting re-world testing on CRV's since 2008 in Winnipeg. I can attest that they perform admirably in this climate, so they should have no issues anywhere, short of the arctic circle, or perhaps the Sahara desert!
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  #27  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Loco101 View Post
In the previous thread I was asked by kwoldtimer

Out of curiosity, how did you decide to go for a Rav4 rather than a Honda CRV (Alliston)?

I like Honda but prefer Toyota vehicles. One big reason for me is that Toyota's world Winter testing site is in Timmins so I know for sure that their vehicles will work well in our climate.
I was just wondering as I am thinking of a new compact SUV this summer (even though I see myself more as a sedan person, so we'll see). I've been looking at higher end models, but really a RAV-4 or CRV is all I really need. The rear end styling of the Toyota puts me off a bit, however. At the higher end, I'm having style issues with the front of the Lexus 350 as well. It's more complicated now with almost everybody competing in this market and no "bad" cars to eliminate from consideration going in.

Anyway, not to start an off-topic conversation.
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  #28  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by drew View Post
We have been conducting re-world testing on CRV's since 2008 in Winnipeg. I can attest that they perform admirably in this climate, so they should have no issues anywhere, short of the arctic circle, or perhaps the Sahara desert!
Didn't know that Winnipeg is their test site. I do know that Hondas perform well here in Timmins in the Winter just like Toyotas do.

Timmins is only a tad colder than Winnipeg in Winter but we do get a lot more snow.

Other Winter test sites that I know of in my region:

GM is in Kapuskasing

Hyundai has a facility in Opasatika but I'm not sure what they use it for and if it's their main one.
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  #29  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 11:00 PM
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I believe that Ford uses Thompson.
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  #30  
Old Posted Apr 18, 2016, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
"Entertainment and shopping options" seem to be a big deal to my exiled Acadian family members who live in Quebec and Ontario.

In particular, being close to an NHL-sized arena for hockey games and other events is a big selling point for a place to live. Weird, isn't it? I guess I've never thought of that since most of my post-teen life I've lived in striking distance of either Montreal or Toronto (and later Ottawa) for this purpose.
Some of this might be rationalization though. "Hey, it's not so bad after all that I had to move away, because I now get to live near an NHL-sized arena". Of course, that's not to say that everybody is heartbroken over moving away; I am just making up an example. My point is that it's all murky and there are probably some types of factors that are nicer to think about than other ones that get downplayed in conversation. In particular I don't think people like talking about being subject to external forces or randomness (e.g. maybe some other place was better but I didn't happen to hear about it).

The employment thing for couples even has a name, the "two-body problem" (and it might explain why we're not going to see large, stable, upwardly-mobile polyamorous groups anytime soon). It kicks in surprisingly quickly; even in the largest cities in Canada it can be very hard for two people to live together for a long period of time and be at the top of their game career-wise. Usually somebody makes a sacrifice. If you move to a smaller city it can be impossible to avoid. One person gets a good job offer and the other moves there then figures it out.

Another issue in the smaller cities is that, even if you do find a great job, you might be faced with giving up your career or moving in the future if your job disappears. The greater options in a bigger city can give you more stability. Then again this can be overrated given how horrible the housing and commuting situation can be in the larger regions.

As far as NB and Atlantic Canada go, outmigration isn't really that high these days. The growth in the cities is much larger than the net outmigration from the region (actually some Atlantic provinces are net positive some quarters). The provincial populations are also staying roughly static. It's possible that all the upwardly mobile people are leaving and all the poor people are staying but generally speaking I don't think the demographics in the Maritimes are actually that bad.
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  #31  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 12:18 AM
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Telegram has a story on it now, Murph:

http://www.thetelegram.com/News/Loca...dara-project/1

And Anne Squires and Randy Simms were involved as well.

FFS. That's an obscene amount of controversy for one project.
Thanks. Found this interesting link on twitter: https://opencorporates.com/officers/...utf8=%E2%9C%93

I'm sure the media will be having a field day with this.
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  #32  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 1:50 PM
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Ugh.

http://tintofink.com/budget-2016-a-h...dland-culture/

I'm trying to prep myself mentally for going back to bartending or retail.
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  #33  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 3:14 PM
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Oh my... the chances this government will fall are increasing. The protests aren't ramping down - they're bringing them to the Confederation Building next week.

And now this...

Budget destroyed any hope people had left, says head of Liberal district association

Quote:
The head of a district Liberal association in western Newfoundland is questioning his support for the party and may step down, saying last week's budget destroyed any hope the people of the province had left.

Barry Wheeler, president of the Humber-Bay of Islands Liberal Association has written MHAs slamming the budget's tax and fee hikes, calling it a "horrible and disgusting" document.

"I'm really struggling with this... I'm contemplating resigning from the association. I'm contemplating just stepping back from the political scene just for a little bit," Wheeler told CBC's St. John's Morning Show.

"I just don't think really, that this budget addresses the underlying issues that the province faces right now … What this budget actually does is increase spending, drive us further into debt and I don't think it truly does anything to stimulate the economy."
Ex-fucking-actly.

Quote:
Wheeler said he campaigned hard to get the Liberals re-elected, putting his "reputation on the line when knocking on doors, staking signs and getting the vote out."

Now, he said, this government has "broken the backs of the average Newfoundlander & Labradorian.

In his letter Wheeler said the budget "killed whatever chance that our fragile economy had to recover" by taxing the "poor, working poor and middle class."

Everything government has done "flies in the face of sound economic practice, sound financial practice and proper governance in the wake of the financial crisis," he wrote.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfou...tion-1.3542243

*****

EDIT: Nevermind. Just saw his pic. Government is safe for now.


DealWithIt.jpg
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Last edited by SignalHillHiker; Apr 19, 2016 at 3:44 PM.
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  #34  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 4:51 PM
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The way it seems with some professions (e.g. nurses) is the wage offered here doesn't reflect the wage across the rest of the country. So you can stay here, work your butt off (because of the nursing shortage), and get paid less, or move away, make more money, and work more regular hours. It's like this in a lot of the industries, stay here for a paycut or move away. You have to know what you value your time for, and decide then accordingly.

With the doctor shortage, it simply comes down to these young graduates not wanting to move outside the city. I don't blame them either. Living in a town of 500 people where you know no one and are isolated from everything is no way to live. It isn't a huge tax burden to operate privately owned doctors clinics in many of the rural areas of the province, so I'm not advocating for centralizing health. Our hospitals are already centralized so I wouldn't change anything about provincial health in that regard.

Ultimately it usually comes down to if you want to stay here, you're doing it on a "hometown discount".
The hometown discount also works in your favour. Does the difference in a nurse's salary make up for the difference in housing costs between small town Newfoundland and the larger cities in Ontario or the West?

And if you move between the same province, salaries for the public and parapublic sector are the same province-wide. A nurse in Moncton makes the same as a nurse in Lamèque.

Going up a level, an RCMP officer in Shippagan NB makes the same salary (equivalent to rank) as an RCMP officer based in Lower Mainland BC.

Another thing is that "staying home" is a boon to many younger people who can live basically for free in their parents' or grandparents' old house. My parents each have siblings who have done this and they are the most financially well-off of their respective families in spite of having careers that were very average for their respective families.

My cousin (and spouse) who are nicely settled into "Depressed Acadia" are doing the exact same thing: they've settled into the old family home. The other siblings are gone to Moncton and Montreal and will never live in that town again.
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  #35  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 4:57 PM
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So, despite the failure of oil producers to agree to limit production, the price of oil has gone up and the Canadian dollar is at 79cents. Because Kuwaiti oil workers have been on strike for three days. It's a funny old world.
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  #36  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 5:03 PM
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Nova Scotia 2016-17 budget just released with a projected $127.4 million surplus. No tax increases except for cigarettes.

http://novascotia.ca/news/release/?id=20160419001
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  #37  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 5:27 PM
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So, despite the failure of oil producers to agree to limit production, the price of oil has gone up and the Canadian dollar is at 79cents. Because Kuwaiti oil workers have been on strike for three days. It's a funny old world.
US Shale oil drilling is off as well. But as the analysts are now saying, OPEC is no longer a force in the industry. Insiders were also saying the IRAN oil would not affect the markets because it was already getting into the market just through back channels.
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  #38  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 5:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I am on board with you on this and have extensive family experience on this question.

One side of my family is from one of the most economically depressed parts of the Maritimes.

I have a lot of trouble reconciling that one the one hand

a) most of my cousins complain of not being able to find jobs "down home", and say that they'd love to stay if only there were jobs

and on the other

b) that employers in their region say they can't find people to fill a whole bunch of positions

So which one is it, a) or b)?

My sense is that while the job market kinda sucks and that there certainly aren't enough jobs for all the young people who grew up there, a lot of people who don't really want to stay will say that they would have liked to in order to preserve appearances and not appear disloyal to their hometown or region.
It's not that simple.

My cousin's a teacher, and she could easily have a job in rural, however she wants to be working in her actual home, and not bay nowhere.

Add to that she wants descent working condition i.e. not being a random sub traveling every single day.

It's more complicated than just "home".

My cousins a nurse and the same with her, if she wasnt working at the hospital she was born in her and her husband would be ultra inclined to goto halifax.

Keeping in mind both expect pretty good wages otherwise, it wouldn't be worth their spouses taking such hard hits living in province.
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  #39  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 6:54 PM
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The NDP is describing the budget as an accounting exercise devoid of vision or hope - perfect. They might be able to set themselves up for more than two seats next election.

*****



So, the backlash is growing. Over the next couple of weeks, we have at least six major protests planned. There's a boycott of McDonald's (the Finance minister owns most of them in the capital city region), which will have unintended but positive consequences . Open Line is off the wall. The House is falling apart - politicians shouting and screaming, fist-slamming, heckling. The Liberal party is starting to fracture with (in a small province, credible) threats from the public to personally ensure no one who votes in favour of the budget is ever re-elected.

Dwight is even having to push back against calls for a free vote:



Very curious to see what comes of it. Nothing, budgets amendments, or new government. If enough Liberals vote against the budget, it'll outshine the NDP's spectacular collapse a few years ago. Exciting times.
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  #40  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2016, 7:29 PM
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Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker View Post
The NDP is describing the budget as an accounting exercise devoid of vision or hope - perfect. They might be able to set themselves up for more than two seats next election.

*****



So, the backlash is growing. Over the next couple of weeks, we have at least six major protests planned. There's a boycott of McDonald's (the Finance minister owns most of them in the capital city region), which will have unintended but positive consequences . Open Line is off the wall. The House is falling apart - politicians shouting and screaming, fist-slamming, heckling. The Liberal party is starting to fracture with (in a small province, credible) threats from the public to personally ensure no one who votes in favour of the budget is ever re-elected.

Dwight is even having to push back against calls for a free vote:



Very curious to see what comes of it. Nothing, budgets amendments, or new government. If enough Liberals vote against the budget, it'll outshine the NDP's spectacular collapse a few years ago. Exciting times.
Liberals vote against their own budget? Surely can't happen unless they leave the party first.
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