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  #21  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 3:54 AM
Docere Docere is offline
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Originally Posted by Architype View Post
A high number of Catholics would have ancestry other than Irish, primarily because of the conversion factor. People marrying Catholics were forced to convert to Catholicism, but not the other way around.
Right, but the offspring of these converts would have Irish ancestry as well.
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  #22  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 3:57 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
My situation is such that I've never had to question my ethnicity (Scottish, right down the line on both sides after up to 7 generations in Canada), but I wonder what my response would be if my Canadian-born father had been of Scottish/German ancestry and my Canadian-born mother had been of English, Irish and Finnish stock? I think I would be inclined to answer "Canadian", because nothing else makes much sense, unless "mixed European" could be considered an ethnicity.
People can report all five.
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  #23  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 5:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
Right, but the offspring of these converts would have Irish ancestry as well.
That's also correct, and the difference would be made up among those who selected "Canadian" but have Irish ancestry. The proportions of actual ancestry of those selecting "Canadian" are going to be similar to the ratio of English and Irish respondents.

In answer to the OP's question, the most undercounted ancestry group would naturally be "English".
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  #24  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 8:54 AM
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I'm one, Architype. Dad is Anglican, Mom is Catholic. No Anglican Church would marry them; Catholic Church only would if they vowed to raise their children Catholic. Dad didn't have to convert. Dad's family is rural, Mom's is from town, so they had more influence on me. I'm definitely very Catholic in the local "ethnic" sense in terms of my politics, which side I take on historic issues (for example, Confederation, the middle class, etc.), accent, which folk songs swell my heart, and so on. In my impression, the English influence here is universal but foundational, it blends into the background. It's like... the pattern used to design our clothes are English, but the fabrics and colours and jewellery and makeup and event we wear them to are all Irish. An actual example: like almost all Newfoundlanders with Irish heritage, I am a monarchist. You don't get that in Southwest Ireland where almost all of us came from lol.
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  #25  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 10:12 AM
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I'm a first generation Canadian from Dutch and German-American (immigrated in the 1850s) parents and feel closer to American than Canadian - especially since I grew up in three countries - and feel more at home with my extended family in California than I do in Vancouver. But people would roll their eyes if I said I identified as American, even though my extended family does without thinking twice.
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  #26  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 12:50 PM
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Most social scientists will tell you that the ancestry category in our census has become basically meaningless since the meteoric rise of the "Canadia/en" origin 20-25 years ago.

OK, perhaps there is a political/identity angle to be explored with all these people identifying with this country as opposed to foreign ones, but even so as I've said before not sure someone in Rivière-du-Loup who checks off "Canadien" has the same collective identity in mind as someone who is of Ukrainian-German-Scottish-Icelandic origin in Manitoba and checks off "Canadian".
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  #27  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 2:38 PM
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I would say, "First Nations". Upwards of 70% of pur-laine Quebecois have some degree of Native blood. I suspect that many Canadians who have ancestors from the pioneering days also carry native blood.
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  #28  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 2:43 PM
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Originally Posted by lio45 View Post
If everyone did like you, the ethnicity part of census that we're paying StatCan to compile would end up delivering nothing but the same information as the population census: "there are 36.29 million people who answered they were Canadian".

The truth is, you should have been counted as a 0.25/36286425 contribution of Danish ancestry to Canada. That is the point. If you don't want to disclose that, I guess it's your prerogative but then you don't even need to waste any time filling up the ancestry section; by skipping it you'll spare some federal white collar time as well.
I like your idea of the multiple options that address many situations that are likely to occur. I can't trace a lot of my ancestry past a point - but ticking all the boxes gives equal weight to all the answers, despite that probably not being the case for me.

The Aussies use a cutoff of 2 generations - parents and grandparents. That strikes me as reasonable.

Australian Census Info

I guess if I used that bar, I'd still be wrong to fill out the census the way I did - guess I'll have to live with the fear of being nailed as a white collar criminal.
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  #29  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 3:03 PM
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In the US, it's definitely English (particularly in the South). Followed by "my great-great-grandmother was a Cherokee princess."

In Australia, it's Irish.
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  #30  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 3:48 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
I would say, "First Nations". Upwards of 70% of pur-laine Quebecois have some degree of Native blood. I suspect that many Canadians who have ancestors from the pioneering days also carry native blood.
I've been considering doing an Ancestry DNA just out of curiosity about this. And to see how many times my female ancestors were raped and pillaged by Vikings!
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  #31  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 3:55 PM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
I would say, "First Nations". Upwards of 70% of pur-laine Quebecois have some degree of Native blood. I suspect that many Canadians who have ancestors from the pioneering days also carry native blood.
I've always wondered what "percentage" French the typical franco-Quebecker actually is. Apart from the indigenous heritage, I seem to have met many people who are aware of a Scottish or Irish ancestor at some point after 1759. Not to mention ancestors who originated in Germany or whatever. I would imagine that research has been done on this.
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  #32  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I've always wondered what "percentage" French the typical franco-Quebecker actually is. Apart from the indigenous heritage, I seem to have met many people who are aware of a Scottish or Irish ancestor at some point after 1759. Not to mention ancestors who originated in Germany or whatever. I would imagine that research has been done on this.
I'd say the French "admixture" (right term?) is still very, very high among the general francophone population in Quebec.

French surnames are still very predominate even though admittely some of them may not be originally French and camouflage foreign origins: Lahaie (Leahey), Sylvain (Sullivan), Rodrigue (Rodrigues), Phaneuf (Farnsworth), Tisdelle (Teasdale), etc.

That said there have also been studies that showed that Québécois francophone lore tends to overestimate the aboriginal and Irish roots of the population here. So opinions vary.

Of course, this did not prevent the legendary neo-trad Quebec band Mes Aïeux (My Forebears) from having its members costumed as a priest, a coureur de bois, an aboriginal guy, an angel (the only girl in the band) and a... leprechaun!
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  #33  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 4:30 PM
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First post here, hi guys!

I'd also add that, especially when it comes to UK/Irish heritage, how many of them were mixed when they emigrated here?

For example, my great grandmother came to Canada from Scotland. So I'm 1/8 Scottish... but, her parents were both born in England. Her grandparents came from Scotland (5), Ireland (2) and England (1).
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  #34  
Old Posted Aug 18, 2017, 9:26 PM
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Probably a fair number, given the long intermingling in the British Isles. Liverpool and Glasgow were big centers for Irish immigration in the 19th century, industry in South Wales attracted a lot of English etc.
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  #35  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2017, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I've been considering doing an Ancestry DNA just out of curiosity about this. And to see how many times my female ancestors were raped and pillaged by Vikings!
I've done two of those genetic tests and they came back with very similar, yet unexpected results. I thought I was mostly of German, English, Irish descent with very small amounts of Pacific Islander and French. Both tests picked up the Pacific Islander but listed my heritage (in order) as Irish, English, German, Scottish and Danish. So the amount of Celtic and Viking raping and pillaging must have been greater than my ancestors would admit.
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  #36  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2017, 4:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Docere View Post
In the US, it's definitely English
No, it's German by a wide margin. Outside of the south, most white Americans are German. Many don't identify as German anymore thanks to the world wars, but you can see it in their appearance.

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German-Americans are America’s largest single ethnic group (if you divide Hispanics into Mexican-Americans, Cuban-Americans, etc). In 2013, according to the Census bureau, 46m Americans claimed German ancestry: more than the number who traced their roots to Ireland (33m) or England (25m). In whole swathes of the northern United States, German-Americans outnumber any other group (see map). Some 41% of the people in Wisconsin are of Teutonic stock.

Yet despite their numbers, they are barely visible. Everyone knows that Michael Dukakis is Greek-American, the Kennedy clan hail from Ireland and Mario Cuomo was an Italian-American. Fewer notice that John Boehner, the Speaker of the House of Representatives, and Rand Paul, a senator from Kentucky with presidential ambitions, are of German origin.

Companies founded by German-Americans tend to play down their roots, too: think of Pfizer, Boeing, Steinway, Levi Strauss or Heinz. Buried somewhere on their websites may be a brief note that “Steinway & Sons was founded in 1853 by German immigrant Henry Engelhard Steinway in a Manhattan loft on Varick Street”. But firms that play up their Germanic history—as Kohler does, in a short film shown at the Waelderhaus—are rare.
https://www.economist.com/news/unite...rely-notice-it

You're also wrong about Australia. It's overwhelmingly English, and Italian is taught as a second language in school. Or at least it was when I lived in Sydney in the 80s. Not sure why you didn't just look this up.

Last edited by Pinion; Aug 19, 2017 at 4:22 AM.
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  #37  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2017, 4:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
No, it's German by a wide margin. Outside of the south, most white Americans are German. Many don't identify as German anymore thanks to the world wars, but you can see it in their appearance.
English ancestry is far more undercounted than German ancestry in the US. "American" ancestry is most reported in the South (more English) than in the (more German) Midwest.

English ancestry responses have dropped by half since the ancestry question was first asked in 1980. German ancestry has remained pretty much the same.
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  #38  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2017, 4:23 AM
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OK still doesn't change the fact that there are way more German-Americans, maybe even twice as many.
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  #39  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2017, 4:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Pinion View Post
You're also wrong about Australia. It's overwhelmingly English, and Italian is taught as a second language in school. Or at least it was when I lived in Sydney in the 80s. Not sure why you didn't just look this up.
I didn't say that Irish was the largest ancestry group in Australia. I said it was the most undercounted. In the 19th century Irish immigrants made up a larger proportion of the population than in the US or Canada. There's no way Australia is only 10% Irish ancestry.
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  #40  
Old Posted Aug 19, 2017, 5:12 AM
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Apples-to-apples to "German" as ancestral origin would probably be "British Isles", though. German immigrants didn't all speak the same language, nor all have the same religion (from Eastern and Southern Germany, they had a good chance of being Catholics). I'm fine with lumping immigrants from the Tyrol and Bavaria with immigrants from the Danish border regions, but then it's strange to divide the British Isles in three, especially given they were one single political entity at the time of most of that immigration.

British Isles (or "UK" if you prefer, at the time of migration) beats Germany as the top place of ancestry origin for Americans.
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