Adelaide - Underpass - CP Tracks

jammer139 · #1 Posted **Jul 9, 2016, 3:08 PM**

Recently read that the plan to deal with the Adelaide St and CP crossing is scheduled for the year 2031. I hope this is a typo and what they really meant was 2021. I hope it doesn't take a serious accident to bring this forward as one of the highest priority projects to invest in. Nor does the BRT steal away the dollars from other critical transportation improvements.

Pimpmasterdac · #2 Posted **Jul 9, 2016, 3:22 PM**

Unfortunately 2031 is not a typo, similar to VMP being a full freeway by the 2060s.

The sad part is an Adelaide CP grade separation has been talked about since the 1960s and its still talk at this point. IMO I would consider this one of the higher priority infrastructure projects. Adelaide is a main central arterial, construction is going to be a serious butch, but the longer its put off its going to be more of a mess.

Thankfully the city had hindsight to build underpasses at Wellington & Richmond at CN in the 1930s, imagine how bad traffic would be without them. Most perplexing is the proposed Richmond CP tunnel, that WON'T be open to general traffic, just BR.

Here's the EA for Adelaide CP: http://www.london.ca/residents/Envir...paration-.aspx

They have online availability to add comments. I votes in favour of an underpass, witha straight alignment.

K85 · #3 Posted **Jul 10, 2016, 2:58 AM**

Lol, as much as I used to have faith in this city, the council that was supposed to lead the way to change has been slowly turning into those of past, and sitting on their hands. I'll dig the entire fucking thing by hand if it means speeding it up. I mean, I'm only one guy, but I can do dozens of wheelbarrows a day if I'm committed!

MolsonExport · #4 Posted **Jul 11, 2016, 3:50 PM**

Mayor Brown and council members boldly announced an endorsement for LRT, with environmental assessments beginning in 2089, and the first shovels hitting the ground in 2097. "We can look forward to comprehensive light rail at the turn of the next century" Brown said.

tyeman200 · #5 Posted **Jul 12, 2016, 5:38 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pimpmasterdac

Unfortunately 2031 is not a typo, similar to VMP being a full freeway by the 2060s.

The sad part is an Adelaide CP grade separation has been talked about since the 1960s and its still talk at this point. IMO I would consider this one of the higher priority infrastructure projects. Adelaide is a main central arterial, construction is going to be a serious butch, but the longer its put off its going to be more of a mess.

Thankfully the city had hindsight to build underpasses at Wellington & Richmond at CN in the 1930s, imagine how bad traffic would be without them. Most perplexing is the proposed Richmond CP tunnel, that WON'T be open to general traffic, just BR.

Here's the EA for Adelaide CP: http://www.london.ca/residents/Envir...paration-.aspx

They have online availability to add comments. I votes in favour of an underpass, witha straight alignment.

That's ridiculous, can't believe its taken them that long to still do shit-all.

Plus, why are they even bothering repaving the VMP right now? They should be starting on the freeway, seems like a huge waste of money and time to repave it, and just rip it out again, when they could just start the freeway now.

MolsonExport · #6 Posted **Jul 12, 2016, 12:51 PM**

I don't think the pavement on VMP will last until 2061.

MrSlippery519 · #7 Posted **Jul 12, 2016, 3:15 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyeman200

That's ridiculous, can't believe its taken them that long to still do shit-all.

Plus, why are they even bothering repaving the VMP right now? They should be starting on the freeway, seems like a huge waste of money and time to repave it, and just rip it out again, when they could just start the freeway now.

No question it's a lot of backwards thinking however most of the road work in London (and other cities) is like that. For example they recently did all this work on Southdale between Wonderland and Col Talbot yet for some reason didn't just make it 4 lanes while it is dug up? I certainly understand the budget process however the overall cost when you do things 4 times vs 1 also has to be considered...

I really doubt VMP will ever be a freeway in my lifetime...(I am 35)

jaradthescot · #8 Posted **Jul 12, 2016, 7:30 PM**

Somewhat related: Why can't we just go to using concrete for our roads? I know it's more expensive up-front, but the long-term cost savings more than make up for it and it means that we don't have to dig up our roads anywhere near as frequently.

Pimpmasterdac · #9 Posted **Jul 12, 2016, 11:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyeman200

That's ridiculous, can't believe its taken them that long to still do shit-all.

Plus, why are they even bothering repaving the VMP right now? They should be starting on the freeway, seems like a huge waste of money and time to repave it, and just rip it out again, when they could just start the freeway now.

From what plans the city has, its not as though VMP would be a freeway at once. Rather they would convert current at grade intersections one by one, with a 5-10 year difference between doing each one. I think the process would start in the 2025 to 2030. As well VMP still needs to be widened from Oxford north to 4 lanes, another grade separation at the GEXR, and building & extending it to atleast Clarke Rd. The EA for the conversion was done nearly 9 years ago, and city has done nothing other than talk as far as implementing it. Road repairs are the bare minimum they likely have to do

Pimpmasterdac · #10 Posted **Jul 12, 2016, 11:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaradthescot

Somewhat related: Why can't we just go to using concrete for our roads? I know it's more expensive up-front, but the long-term cost savings more than make up for it and it means that we don't have to dig up our roads anywhere near as frequently.

I believe the answer is in your question. Whike concrete is optimal for highways as it doesnt need as much repair, for local roads which frequently have sewer or pipe work it wouldnt be cost effective if constantly needing patch work done.

haljackey · #11 Posted **Jul 13, 2016, 2:03 AM**

Concrete also needs a deep road bed, which is crazy expensive.

Plus we have a lot of freeze/thaws here. Asphalt is more elastic than concrete.

manny_santos · #12 Posted **Jul 16, 2016, 12:33 AM**

Absolutely pathetic about Adelaide. When I see smaller cities like Kingston actively working to eliminate all at-grade crossings, I can't help but wonder why a larger city with a larger tax base can't even be bothered.

In Kingston, there is currently a bridge under construction that when completed will leave no at-grade crossings (not counting spurs) in the urban part of the city. A couple rural crossings will remain.

jammer139 · #13 Posted **Jul 17, 2016, 12:26 PM**

The City of London is notorious for this sort of planning and engineering lack of vision.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

No question it's a lot of backwards thinking however most of the road work in London (and other cities) is like that. For example they recently did all this work on Southdale between Wonderland and Col Talbot yet for some reason didn't just make it 4 lanes while it is dug up? I certainly understand the budget process however the overall cost when you do things 4 times vs 1 also has to be considered...

I really doubt VMP will ever be a freeway in my lifetime...(I am 35)

Dupcheck · #14 Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 5:37 PM**

Sorry, I am new here.
What i do not understand is how comes they build a 4 lane overpass on Quebec street and not on Adelaide. Quebec street gets 100 times less traffic than Adelaide does! Can someone explain this to me.

Thanks,
Dups

haljackey · #15 Posted **Jul 19, 2016, 7:00 PM**

Quebec Street is too close to the rail yard for CP. Long trains would block it when stopped for unloading/reloading. Only choice for a crossing here is grade separation.

tyeman200 · #16 Posted **Jul 20, 2016, 6:05 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

No question it's a lot of backwards thinking however most of the road work in London (and other cities) is like that. For example they recently did all this work on Southdale between Wonderland and Col Talbot yet for some reason didn't just make it 4 lanes while it is dug up? I certainly understand the budget process however the overall cost when you do things 4 times vs 1 also has to be considered...

I really doubt VMP will ever be a freeway in my lifetime...(I am 35)

I will most likely see it in my early 80s or so, being 21 right now.. It sucks how much the city council from the late 60s screwed any chance of London having a real freeway. I realize it will take some time for the VMP to fully become a freeway, but still I don't understand how if they're already digging up the roadway, to just begin the freeway upgrade, even if they did just one of the intersections. It's just better to do it now than repave the thing, only to tear it up again shortly.

It always bothers me how London just takes so long to do anything with everything around here. We'll get our first freeway in 2060 (maybe), won't probably see LRT for a long while, and waiting till 2031 for the Adelaide and CP crossing.

jammer139 · #17 Posted **Oct 22, 2016, 11:43 AM**

Repairs to McMahen Park gateway on hold pending the EA for the over/under pass at the CP tracks.

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/10/21/mc...-to-rise-again

MrSlippery519 · #18 Posted **Oct 24, 2016, 2:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jammer139

Repairs to McMahen Park gateway on hold pending the EA for the over/under pass at the CP tracks.

http://www.lfpress.com/2016/10/21/mc...-to-rise-again

Wow thinking ahead go figure...I was not sure our city had that capability.

What was the schedule to have this over/under pass done? I know it has been talked about for many years but didn't know there was a real schedule.

Pimpmasterdac · #19 Posted **Oct 25, 2016, 12:31 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

Wow thinking ahead go figure...I was not sure our city had that capability.

What was the schedule to have this over/under pass done? I know it has been talked about for many years but didn't know there was a real schedule.

2031 is the tentative date. However it could be an sooner, as the BRT plan called for Highbury CP crossing to be 6 lanes and would likely want to have an alternate unobstructed north-south route.

As another example Sarina Rd was to be widened in 2026, but due to the high demand was pushed up to this year. Adelaide has been decades overdue, as well as many other crossing in London. Maybe the railways & city want to splurge at once and fix these major bottlenecks once and forall?

go_leafs_go02 · #20 Posted **Oct 25, 2016, 4:14 PM**

Here is a link that will be helpful. It's the 2014 Transportation Master Plan, for projects up to 2033. It includes the CP Overpass in 2031:

http://www.london.ca/business/Resour...ter%20Plan.pdf

Scroll down a few pages until you get to a huge chart and a follow-up overview map of the City's plans.