Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by esquire

For the longest time hockey games started at 7:30, but for at least the last few years it has been 7:00 which is a bit tighter but still doable. However, the security process takes a lot more time now... you have to leave even earlier to make it to your seat on time.

When I was kid (not that long ago), Hockey Night in Canada/La Soirée du Hockey games on Saturday nights in Montreal and Toronto started at 8 pm.

Weeknight games were 7:30 as you say.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

Why are the Flames so low? Is it because of the stadium situation?

Originally Posted by Acajack

I was surprised to see them at about the same value as the Sens.

In terms of the Flames and Sens value, I suspect the arena debates are a contributing factor. With the dream of a new arena in Calgary essentially dead, at least for now, the value might have taken a hit while in Ottawa, despite the attendance issues, the new downtown arena is still under negotiation.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

For the longest time hockey games started at 7:30, but for at least the last few years it has been 7:00 which is a bit tighter but still doable. However, the security process takes a lot more time now... you have to leave even earlier to make it to your seat on time.

Hmm, I've been structuring my days around watching games at either 4 or 7 for what I thought was always. Maybe we were unique, or maybe I just forgot it changed.

I take your point though. It never occurred to me as I would just finish work at 5 and head straight downtown, but with kids or other responsibilities I can see how that would be a stretch.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by DavefromSt.Vital

A question for the people in Ottawa - Has the Canadian Tire Centre always been this bad? My question is not meant to troll, I am just trying to understand if I had a "normal" experience.

No offence taken.

Like many others in town for the Grey Cup, we decided to check out the Islanders/Senators game on the Saturday. Despite the increased interest I still found resale tickets for $25 below cost near the tunnel where the Senators exit the bench.

I was at that game!

Things did not start well with the first OC Transpo shuttle showing up almost 10 minutes late to the stop on Rideau.

Buses downtown are ALWAYS late, no matter what.

Then the driver refused to believe that Grey Cup ticketholders could ride for free, despite an ad saying just that, right outside the bus. He eventually gave in when his dispatcher told him what the promotion was.

For the bus drivers confusion with the free transit, it's understandable. Usually, transit service is free for anyone going to an event (concert, football game, hockey game) at TD Place however, such a freebie does not exist for Senators' games for which we always have to pay full price. The bus driver probably thought it was, as always, only free for people going to TD Place on game day and not during the entire week

Near the end of the long ride to Kanata he cheerfully warned everyone that shuttles would only wait until 20 minutes after the game ended. After much delay, arrived at the CTC and trudged through crazily parked buses in the dark.

Normal.

Finally arrived at the main gate and despite there being dozens of doors open, there were thousands of people in line waiting to go through security. Couldn't figure out why there was such a wait until about 10 of us were waved over to a door to an interior sports bar. It took about 10 minutes for the 10 people to go through. My wife was one of the offenders in that she brought a small purse. The security person made her dump out the entire contents, pocket by pocket. Every item was prodded and scrutinized. Small cellophane pack of Kleenex? Open it! Chapstick? Take the cap off! Airports are less secure.

The guy we had looked through my girlfriends purse, but it wasn't as intense as you describe. You just landed on an asshole.

From the door to the concourse, it took us 5 minutes.

Eventually walked through a huge sports bar to find a tiny, claustrophobic concourse. One of the few beer locations had a line of five guys in front of it. That five person line actually hit the far side of the councourse it was so narrow. Noting that large restuarants and bars filled in the space between the tiny concourse and the outer wall most of the way around the arena we wondered if they had been dropped in at some point.

Can't really speak for that.

Tried to walk all the way around but found the way blocked by a private Bell area.

Been there a few years. Testing it out to see if it would work well in the new arena.

Eventually got to our area and were pleasantly surprised to find there was no line-up for pizza. Then took a few bites. One slice was rock hard and another had rancid bacon.

Although I was pleasantly surprised to see the arena pretty much sold out, I found the concourse, concessions and washrooms less busy than usual.

Is this experience typical? If so, I can see why there are attendance issues. We found it night and day compared to a 67's game we went to on a previous trip.

The price of parking I'm sure is also a factor. Went up to $20 this year. Can't fill the arena? Let's up the prices of parking and concessions.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Weird, I've never noticed any issues getting into Rogers Arena, even with heightened security lately. You get a half-assed pat-down, walk through the metal detectors and you're in. I've never stood in line longer than 10 minutes. For sports that is. Concerts can take 20-30 minutes, but I guess they expect people to be crazier or whatever.

That's been my experience at THF and BMO.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

Hmm, I've been structuring my days around watching games at either 4 or 7 for what I thought was always. Maybe we were unique, or maybe I just forgot it changed.

I take your point though. It never occurred to me as I would just finish work at 5 and head straight downtown, but with kids or other responsibilities I can see how that would be a stretch.

I realize that I'm in the minority of attendees who have young kids to worry about, but even for those who don't, it's getting to the point where it's inconvenient to go home between work and sports event.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by esquire

I realize that I'm in the minority of attendees who have young kids to worry about, but even for those who don't, it's getting to the point where it's inconvenient to go home between work and sports event.

Oh, going home between school/work and the event is absolutely a non-starter. Frankly, I never thought that would be an expectation, though I suppose other city factors such as size and traffic get involved there. I guess it just depends on what you're used to.

I agree though, the absolute worst part of going to these events (well, after the 10:30 pm trip home when buses are on 1 hour frequencies) is figuring out what to do with all your stuff that you can't leave at school/work but can't bring to the event, because home isn't an option.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

One last thing... There a lot of shady backroom hand shaking that led to the construction of Quebec's Videotron Centre but, it's still not comparable to the situation in Edmonton where a team pursued and got a sweetheart deal from the city.

I've accepted Edmontonians are fine with this deal. There have and will be much worst deals made too. I'll try hard to accept Edmonton's forumers flat out denial that this is costing the city regardless of the uptick in tax revenues from these blocks.

I still don't understand why everyone still thinks Edmonton got screwed worse than Québec City. We constantly see Edmonton bashing and nothing against the Québec situation.

In Edmonton, about what, half came from Government sources? Ya, it's a little much, but the City got a huge privately funded development and downtown revitalization out of it.

Québec City? Government funded the entire project for a group that can't even secure an NHL franchise. A group that only pay rent based on their revenues. Worse of all, the arena was basically built in a suburban location with no associated development.

[WhipperSnapper]

It's not the same situation. First. Quebecor is not a tenant. They don't pay rent. They are in charge of managing the property. Second. Quebec chose to speculate on an arena built. Sure, Quebecor was involved in pushing them down this path hence the aforementioned shadiness. In Edmonton, a wealthy company owned by one of the richest Canadians went looking for corporate welfare and got it by seducing the city with an entire entertainment district and that seduction is still happening today.

How much has One Properties contributed to downtown revitalization? It was suggested just a few posts ago the city covered the upgrades to publicly owned spaces. The towers aren't revitalization. They are gentrification. One Properties and Katz are making a fortune from the developments and also selling to real estate funds that don't give two shits about Edmonton.

[itom 987]

Does Videotron Centre have a tenant besides some bush league hockey team that no one cares about? I'm sure the pitiful rent isn't making up for the cost of the arena. The Quebec and Canadian (for that matter) taxpayer footed the bill for an arena solely based on speculation? That's awful, and the bush league hockey team is 'plan B' bravo.

One Properties (formerly WAM Developments) was founded, and is based in Edmonton. The company has built various buildings throughout the city, including two residential high-rises on Jasper Avenue, and you are telling me they don't give two shits about Edmonton?

[Black Star]

Regarding taxpayers paying for the Edmonton area. This is all part of public record:

Cost of the arena is $480 million, $130 million paid by the Katz Group, $125 million paid for by a ticket tax on all tickets sold at the venue and $200 million from the City and $25 million from other levels of government for the second ice surface/community rink to be used for the public and nearby university. The City's portion will be paid via a Community Revitalization Zone Levy (CRL) and other extra revenue like parking. Note that there was no tax rate increase in order to pay for any part of the arena.

The philosophy behind the CRL program is:

Major revitalization projects attract and increase local activity, investment and development. Economic growth creates additional tax revenue for all orders of government. Additional municipal and provincial property taxes from the economic growth will help fund the original project.

The amount of new tax revenue that the lands in and around the arena will make for the City on an annual basis, FAR exceeds the $200 million that the City has seeded into this project. There is currently over $2.5 billion in construction going on in the Arena district itself including a 56 floor hotel and residences , 66 floor office/condo (might be as high as 70), a 29 floor office and other retail businesses including a grocer, movie theater complex, restaurants, bars, etc. This district has fast forwarded many new condo high rises that have been announced since the arena was started and would not have existed without the new arena.

The CRL funding forecasts are based on only 40% of the growth predicted in Rollo’s conservative model, and still the CRL was calculated to generate, in net present value, $473 million in new taxes over 20 years.

So how investing $200 million in this multi billion district, getting almost $500 million in new taxation revenue (maybe more) AND revitalizing the city's downtown at the same time is a bad deal!!

Nope...sounds pretty good to me

[itom 987]

The Ice District



Centre Videotron

Québec City…. by Edgar Leyendecker, on Flickr

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

In Edmonton, a wealthy company owned by one of the richest Canadians went looking for corporate welfare and got it by seducing the city with an entire entertainment district and that seduction is still happening today.

How much has One Properties contributed to downtown revitalization? It was suggested just a few posts ago the city covered the upgrades to publicly owned spaces. The towers aren't revitalization. They are gentrification. One Properties and Katz are making a fortune from the developments and also selling to real estate funds that don't give two shits about Edmonton.

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[esquire]

That rink in Quebec is a beauty, but it is kind of peculiar that they bucked the trend of downtown arenas. You'd have to go back to CTC in the mid 90s for the last Canadian NHL-scaled rink built in what is essentially suburbia (even if it is the inner suburbs in Quebec's case). Saskatchewan Place was the last one before that in the late 80s.

[Rico Rommheim]

The thing is, Quebec City doesn't really have a downtown. It has core neighbourhoods that look a lot like the plateau / villeray around the old city but nothing like a modern 20th century north american CBD. The upper city / government district where all the modern highrises are is a dead zone after business hours and can hardly be considered a city centre.

Quebec City is just a weird place.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by esquire

That rink in Quebec is a beauty...

The interior, yes... the exterior - not so much.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by esquire

Saskatchewan Place was the last one before that in the late 80s.

What makes it even better is that they relocated from downtown.

And people still complain.

[HomerSPC]

Originally Posted by Berklon

The interior, yes... the exterior - not so much.

I personally love the minimalist exterior. For each their own, I guess.

[Oilkountry]

I think they missed out on an opportunity in QC. Arenas should be a key part of something bigger. In my opinion they should play a role of revitalization or at least adding to something.

I'm sure their was better place to put it that could have served the community and local business's a bit better. I don't see the same opportunity that the MTS centre presented to true north with True North square or maple leafs square, LA live, Ice district or what you're seeing in Detroit ect....Maybe they build a CFL stadium beside it after they tear down the coliseum? I can envision a west gate in Glendale type thing on that site?

[cjones2451]

Saw this in BMO Field. Could be for #Argo fans too

Bill Manning confirms on PTS that the new northern stands added for the playoffs will be made a permanent addition to BMO Field going forward. huge for #TFCLive fans!

From Twitter @boatical