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  #481  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 3:07 AM
atbw atbw is offline
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Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Oh yes, and don't forget to vote out everybody that's in council now because they're a bunch of bums...
Like a broken record
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  #482  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 5:19 AM
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spaustin spaustin is offline
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Originally Posted by Keith P. View Post
This decision runs counter to that philosophy. It is more along the lines of bike lanes and curb bumpouts, things that make life worse for the motorist. And it was the most expensive option by several orders of magnitude - I strongly recommend the report for your elucidation on the subject:

https://www.halifax.ca/media/67849

And the important part, the summary comparison chart:



So a combination of any or all of the other options would still be less expensive than the roundabout. Yet it went through Council like you-know-what through a goose. Why? Because this was another HRM grease job, in this case to give the junior Councillor from Dartmouth something his planner background made him pine for even before he became elected. He had his hat set on a roundabout, and everybody went along to get along. After all, it isn't their money. Shameful.

It was only a matter of time. Just another reason to throw this bunch out in the next election.
Sigh. I'm surprised you're opposed. You do know that this will actually increase the traffic capacity? That's not generally one of my priorities since our transportation emphasis needs to be on transit and active transportation, but I don't like having my residents maimed or worse. This isn't the 1950s Mic Mac Rotary we're building. It's a modern roundabout. The sort that exist at like every intersection in Europe and that are popping up all across North America. Why are they being built? Because they work. More capacity, lower speeds, fewer collisions and the collisions that do happen are generally less severe.

Yes, we could spend less here, but none of other options addresses all the issues being experienced (crashes, speed on Woodland Avenue, issues for pedestrians crossing). Installing protected lefts would mean major lane modifications and likely widening Mic Mac Boulevard, and would still leave high speeds on Woodland and dangerous conditions for pedestrians in place. Tack on adjusted right turn lanes? Again, that fixes part of the issue but not all of it. We could easily spend well over $2 million on non-roundabout options and that's before you factor in what the cost is in traffic accidents of a conventional intersection, and traffic lights. A roundabout is the best overall value. It costs the most upfront, but it's also the most effective.

This isn't my pet project. This was studied by HRM's staff, Provincial staff, and outside consultants and all agreed that a roundabout was the best approach. I suspected that would be the case, which is why I referenced it in my original motion to make sure it was in the list of things that staff looked at, but my motion wasn't prescriptive. I was more than open to alternatives, my goal was simply to improve this intersection. If you think I have the ability to bend the results of a whole group of professional engineers, most of whom don't even work for HRM, behind the scenes then you really have no clue how Council or government works.
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  #483  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 5:35 AM
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Originally Posted by spaustin View Post
Sigh. I'm surprised you're opposed. You do know that this will actually increase the traffic capacity? That's not generally one of my priorities since our transportation emphasis needs to be on transit and active transportation, but I don't like having my residents maimed or worse. This isn't the 1950s Mic Mac Rotary we're building. It's a modern roundabout. The sort that exist at like every intersection in Europe and that are popping up all across North America. Why are they being built? Because they work. More capacity, lower speeds, fewer collisions and the collisions that do happen are generally less severe.

Yes, we could spend less here, but none of other options addresses all the issues being experienced (crashes, speed on Woodland Avenue, issues for pedestrians crossing). Installing protected lefts would mean major lane modifications and likely widening Mic Mac Boulevard, and would still leave high speeds on Woodland and dangerous conditions for pedestrians in place. Tack on adjusted right turn lanes? Again, that fixes part of the issue but not all of it. We could easily spend well over $2 million on non-roundabout options and that's before you factor in what the cost is in traffic accidents of a conventional intersection, and traffic lights. A roundabout is the best overall value. It costs the most upfront, but it's also the most effective.

This isn't my pet project. This was studied by HRM's staff, Provincial staff, and outside consultants and all agreed that a roundabout was the best approach. I suspected that would be the case, which is why I referenced it in my original motion to make sure it was in the list of things that staff looked at, but my motion wasn't prescriptive. I was more than open to alternatives, my goal was simply to improve this intersection. If you think I have the ability to bend the results of a whole group of professional engineers, most of whom don't even work for HRM, behind the scenes then you really have no clue how Council or government works.
I think you solved the mystery. For motorists whose main (if not only) goal is to move between places as fast as possible, anything that slows a route down isn't a feature but a bug.

Personally, I pass through the area fairly regularly and I can attest that for cars coming off the highway, if they hit a green light at the intersection they sometimes really barrel down the hill which has a crosswalk at the bottom as well as many driveways and cross streets that open onto Woodland. I have no idea what the rate of accidents is nor have I seen or experienced one, but 'm becoming more accustomed to rotaries even though I was initially opposed. I go through the N. Park-Agricola one quite regularly and it is definitely faster for me than waiting for lights. I still find (our version) ugly though.
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  #484  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 12:31 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Originally Posted by spaustin View Post
Sigh. I'm surprised you're opposed. You do know that this will actually increase the traffic capacity?
It will increase capacity for severe backups during periods of heavy traffic such as morning and evening rush hours and during holiday shopping seasons. Great for the environment.

Quote:
That's not generally one of my priorities since our transportation emphasis needs to be on transit and active transportation
<sigh> Yes, we are very much aware of your desires in that respect. That's a big part of the problem.

Quote:
This isn't the 1950s Mic Mac Rotary we're building. It's a modern roundabout. The sort that exist at like every intersection in Europe and that are popping up all across North America. Why are they being built? Because they work. More capacity, lower speeds, fewer collisions and the collisions that do happen are generally less severe.
Funny. I'm reminded of the ones we built in Fall River and on Uteck, all of which are disasters and generally despised by those poor sods who have to use them. They are a very distasteful planning dogma soup of the day.

Quote:
Yes, we could spend less here, but none of other options addresses all the issues being experienced (crashes, speed on Woodland Avenue, issues for pedestrians crossing).
All of those other options address the issues to some greater or lesser extent as seen in the table shown and at far less cost. One might conclude you only believe what an engineer states when it suits your agenda.

Quote:
This isn't my pet project. This was studied by HRM's staff, Provincial staff, and outside consultants and all agreed that a roundabout was the best approach. I suspected that would be the case, which is why I referenced it in my original motion to make sure it was in the list of things that staff looked at, but my motion wasn't prescriptive. I was more than open to alternatives, my goal was simply to improve this intersection. If you think I have the ability to bend the results of a whole group of professional engineers, most of whom don't even work for HRM, behind the scenes then you really have no clue how Council or government works.
This is your best yet. The roundabout being included in the original motion was a very clear sign that the marching orders were given. A consulting engineer is like any other consultant - they determine what the client wants and then shape their conclusions to fit that outcome. From having watched this Council operate for years, I know exactly how it works, and this one followed that model to a T. And this also follows your pattern of being dismissive to anything that doesn't fit your predetermined conclusions.
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  #485  
Old Posted Dec 5, 2019, 12:34 PM
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Keith P. Keith P. is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark View Post
Oh yes, and don't forget to vote out everybody that's in council now because they're a bunch of bums...
Now you are starting to get it. It would be interesting to try to make a positive case for any member of this current Council. I suspect it would be a very short thread.
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  #486  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 3:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Dengler Avenue View Post
Time to replace the tight loop from 118S to 111E with another flyover then. There’s space.
Also why is there no loop from 118N to 111W?
I think I remember asking years ago about why there was no 118N to 111W but I can't recall how it was answered.
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  #487  
Old Posted Dec 6, 2019, 7:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Jstaleness View Post
I think I remember asking years ago about why there was no 118N to 111W but I can't recall how it was answered.
Would require an elevated structure, so likely deemed too expensive, though we can apparently afford $3.5 mil for an unnecessary roundabout and $10 mil for a unneeded bike flyover ramp. Such a structure could also provide more direct access to southern half of Dart Xing instead of having to go all the way north to the Wright Ave entrance.
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  #488  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 4:44 PM
FuzzyWuz FuzzyWuz is offline
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Diverging diamonds

Not sure if this is off topic but this is an interesting way of directing traffic:

https://youtu.be/A0sM6xVAY-A
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  #489  
Old Posted Dec 4, 2021, 8:05 PM
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Halifax's newest roundabout is now under construction on Larrry Uteck Blvd at Broad Street in Bedford West.


Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson)
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  #490  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2022, 4:35 AM
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^Much better update on the Larry Uteck @ Broad South Roundabout. In the minute it took to get this photo I saw pedestrians and a cyclist safely navigate the area so it's nice to see it's working on that front. Larry Uteck goes left (north) and right (south), Broad Street is at the top and Brookline Drive is at the bottom.


'Halifax Developments Blog (Photo by David Jackson)
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  #491  
Old Posted Jan 4, 2022, 3:21 PM
OldDartmouthMark OldDartmouthMark is offline
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A single-lane roundabout! What a treat!

Looks good, and I'm sure the motorists who were caught up in 2 or 3 months of traffic jams are glad to see it finished!
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