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  #41  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 12:25 PM
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I'm originally from the parched, rural Southwest and have always been water-usage-phobic. I use rainbarrels too, wash dishes by hand (though we're very middle class and have a perfectly good stainless steel dishwasher like every other good yuppie), and turn the shower off between lathering up and rinsing off (and I won't disclose other bathroom practices --nothing too disgusting). Everyone thought I was weird, but now it's catching on (my friends still think I'm weird, but for other reasons).
I think it's a little outrageous for Perdon't to want to be declared a federal disaster when he (and all GA politicians) have done NOTHING to promote conservation.
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  #42  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 1:02 PM
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Conservation is good and necessary; however, I heard a talking head on television yesterday reveal a statistic that, if true, is sort of mind-boggling.

This woman was claiming that 120 million gallons are lost throughout the metro area each day due to leaking pipes!? Sort of makes the 1 gallon of gray water I've been using to water all my potted plants seem moot.
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  #43  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2007, 1:29 PM
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Conservation is good and necessary; however, I heard a talking head on television yesterday reveal a statistic that, if true, is sort of mind-boggling.

This woman was claiming that 120 million gallons are lost throughout the metro area each day due to leaking pipes!? Sort of makes the 1 gallon of gray water I've been using to water all my potted plants seem moot.
The half billion that the Corps releases doubles the insignificance of any conservation method we employ. The problem will only be solved when the drought ends. All the sacrifices we made serve mostly to bring attention to our problem rather than actually put a dent in it.
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  #44  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 12:55 AM
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hopefully, once the rains come back the lessons learned will not be forgotten.

one for sure, get another reservoir or two, and make sure its controlled by the state.
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  #45  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 5:07 AM
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Originally Posted by dante2308 View Post
... All the sacrifices we made serve mostly to bring attention to our problem rather than actually put a dent in it.
True, but drawing attention to the problem is the first step. If everyone felt they were making some sacrifice to conserve, they'd be a lot more up in arms when they hear about waste and mismanagement. This can be easily expanded to other areas of national life (oil and war come to mind). If no one makes sacrifices, it's always someone else's problem. As an educational theorist I know says, "the first step to solving any problem is to see it as your problem."
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  #46  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 3:01 PM
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hopefully, once the rains come back the lessons learned will not be forgotten.

one for sure, get another reservoir or two, and make sure its controlled by the state.
Did the feds fund Buford Dam or did they take it over at a later time?

Somebody upthread mentioned the lake was built to last 100 years. That's twice as long as the 50 years Mayor Hartsfield planned for in the 1950s and he wondered what we'd do when it got silted up. Can you remove silt? Could we do it while the lake level is this low?

Bellwood Quarry is starting to look like one hell of a good idea.
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  #47  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 8:12 PM
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Macon wants to sell water to ATL

This is pretty interesting:

Quote:
...exploring options for selling water from the Macon Water Authority to Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport.

Ellis said he broached the idea with Atlanta officials Tuesday morning and was waiting to hear what their exact need might be and what storage capacity they have available.

...

"We know that this thing is serious," Ellis said. And, he added, Macon is in a "very unique" position to help out: "We have plenty of water."

While metro Atlanta grapples with the possibility of a water calamity, Macon has a 6.5 billion gallon reservoir with enough water to supply the area for nearly 500 days, according to the Macon Water Authority. Meanwhile, Lake Lanier, a 38,000-acre reservoir located north of Atlanta and the source of water for more than 3 million residents, reportedly is less than three months from depletion....
http://www.macon.com/198/story/168075.html
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  #48  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 8:38 PM
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I wonder where he's getting that 6.5 billion gallons is enough to supply water for 500 days? I understood the portion of the metro area served by Lanier to use on the order of 500 million gallons per day (about 3 million people). 6.5 billion gallons would therefore be more like a two-week supply of water. Maybe he's talking about City of Atlanta only? Or, the water needs at the Hartsfield-Jackson only? By contrast, Lanier holds a total of 832 billion gallons (at elevation 1,085 ft), of which 342 billion gallons is in the "conservation pool" (between elevations 1,070 ft and 1,035 ft). Still, Macon's 6.5 billion gallons would represent considerably more than is planned for the reservoir at Bellwood Quarry along the beltline, which would have a capacity of only about 1.9 billion gallons. We'll take it any way we can get it, I'm sure.
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  #49  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 8:40 PM
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I think there is a technology already in use in a few other countries that convert salt water into fresh. I think with the help of federal funding a pipeline similar to the gas lines could be use to supply fresh water from the desal plants off the coast to metro Atlanta. Another option to help fund this is the "water tax". It would be an expensive project but would be much cheaper than Atlanta being impacted economically long term.
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  #50  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 8:54 PM
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http://www.miamiherald.com/news/colu...ry/280876.html

Georgia's dry, but guv sounds like a wet hen
By FRED GRIMM
Recriminations have been flowing out of Georgia in torrents. Water? Not so much.

Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue has been squealing like a stuck pig, claiming Florida and the Corps of Engineers and pointy-headed environmentalists have conspired to deprive the suffering residents in drought-stricken Atlanta of their very drinking water.

The Georgia congressional delegation showed up at the governor's mean-talking press conference on Friday. Us Floridians, they said bitterly, were willing to sacrifice actual human beings, the Georgian variety, just to save a bunch of slimy river mussels.

Down in Apalachicola, the nasty talk out of Georgia was beyond irritating. ''I wouldn't say I was irritated. I'd say I was mad as hell,'' said Dan Tonsmeire, who runs the Apalachicola Riverkeeper, the advocacy group that looks after the fragile estuary of the Apalachicola River and bay.

POLITICAL MUSSEL?

Perdue and the North Georgia crowd are upset because the Corps makes sure that at least 5,000 cubic feet of water per second flows out of Lake Lanier and down the Chattahoochee River, a major tributary of the Apalachicola River. Lake Lanier also serves as the main reservoir for the Atlanta metropolitan area. Lingering drought conditions have left Lake Lanier nine feet below normal depths. And falling.

Perdue claims the Corps only persists in draining Lake Lanier to satisfy the draconian requirements of the U.S. Endangered Species Act, because if the Apalachicola River flow drops much further, it'll be the end of purple backclimber mussel. Georgia Congressman Phil Gringrey said the policy threatened to turn the people of Georgia ``into endangered species themselves.''

TO HECK WITH US

But sound bites flowing out of Georgia sound like lies in Apalachicola. More than mussels would be endangered if Georgia takes more out of the watershed. Shrimp, sturgeon and Apalachicola's famous oysters would be devastated. Less flow would inhibit the crawfish that sustain local birds and mammals. Mussels, Tonsmeire said, were ''the canaries in the coal mine.'' When they go, the entire Apalachicola estuary's in trouble.

But Perdue declared a disaster in Georgia and war on his neighbors. He asked President Bush to intervene. And he went to federal court seeking an injunction, to hell with the folks down river in Florida and Alabama.

Other natural disasters -- tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods -- inspire neighborly outpourings of sympathy, charity and caravans of relief trucks. Droughts inspire something else.

''Droughts bring out the worst,'' said Mark Svoboda of the National Drought Mitigation Center in Lincoln, Neb.

YEARS OF NEGLECT

Perdue told National Public Radio Monday evening that drastic, unneighborly measures were necessary because Georgia had never seen such a drought as this before.

Not since 1988 anyway. But the drought of 2007 hit after 19 years of unmitigated growth with no planning for the water demands of so many more people. It was as if water was an unlimited resource.

It wasn't. Not in metro Atlanta. Not in South Florida. Not in the growth corridors of the Carolinas, Tennessee, Alabama. The Sun Belt may have unlimited notions about growth and development but it doesn't have unlimited supply of the one essential resource.

''Somebody down the road is going to have to make some tough decisions,'' Svoboda said. ``You can't keep hooking up more people to the water supply.''
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  #51  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2007, 11:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickell View Post
http://www.miamiherald.com/news/colu...ry/280876.html

Georgia's dry, but guv sounds like a wet hen
By FRED GRIMM
Recriminations have been flowing out of Georgia in torrents. Water? Not so much.

Georgia Gov. Sonny Perdue has been squealing like a stuck pig, claiming Florida and the Corps of Engineers and pointy-headed environmentalists have conspired to deprive the suffering residents in drought-stricken Atlanta of their very drinking water.

The Georgia congressional delegation showed up at the governor's mean-talking press conference on Friday. Us Floridians, they said bitterly, were willing to sacrifice actual human beings, the Georgian variety, just to save a bunch of slimy river mussels.

Down in Apalachicola, the nasty talk out of Georgia was beyond irritating. ''I wouldn't say I was irritated. I'd say I was mad as hell,'' said Dan Tonsmeire, who runs the Apalachicola Riverkeeper, the advocacy group that looks after the fragile estuary of the Apalachicola River and bay.

POLITICAL MUSSEL?

Perdue and the North Georgia crowd are upset because the Corps makes sure that at least 5,000 cubic feet of water per second flows out of Lake Lanier and down the Chattahoochee River, a major tributary of the Apalachicola River. Lake Lanier also serves as the main reservoir for the Atlanta metropolitan area. Lingering drought conditions have left Lake Lanier nine feet below normal depths. And falling.

Perdue claims the Corps only persists in draining Lake Lanier to satisfy the draconian requirements of the U.S. Endangered Species Act, because if the Apalachicola River flow drops much further, it'll be the end of purple backclimber mussel. Georgia Congressman Phil Gringrey said the policy threatened to turn the people of Georgia ``into endangered species themselves.''

TO HECK WITH US

But sound bites flowing out of Georgia sound like lies in Apalachicola. More than mussels would be endangered if Georgia takes more out of the watershed. Shrimp, sturgeon and Apalachicola's famous oysters would be devastated. Less flow would inhibit the crawfish that sustain local birds and mammals. Mussels, Tonsmeire said, were ''the canaries in the coal mine.'' When they go, the entire Apalachicola estuary's in trouble.

But Perdue declared a disaster in Georgia and war on his neighbors. He asked President Bush to intervene. And he went to federal court seeking an injunction, to hell with the folks down river in Florida and Alabama.

Other natural disasters -- tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, floods -- inspire neighborly outpourings of sympathy, charity and caravans of relief trucks. Droughts inspire something else.

''Droughts bring out the worst,'' said Mark Svoboda of the National Drought Mitigation Center in Lincoln, Neb.

YEARS OF NEGLECT

Perdue told National Public Radio Monday evening that drastic, unneighborly measures were necessary because Georgia had never seen such a drought as this before.

Not since 1988 anyway. But the drought of 2007 hit after 19 years of unmitigated growth with no planning for the water demands of so many more people. It was as if water was an unlimited resource.

It wasn't. Not in metro Atlanta. Not in South Florida. Not in the growth corridors of the Carolinas, Tennessee, Alabama. The Sun Belt may have unlimited notions about growth and development but it doesn't have unlimited supply of the one essential resource.

''Somebody down the road is going to have to make some tough decisions,'' Svoboda said. ``You can't keep hooking up more people to the water supply.''
Cheers to reporter bias!
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  #52  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 12:40 AM
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If there were no dam then there would be less water than what we are letting go... Cheers to stupidity
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  #53  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 2:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Roy McDowell View Post
I think there is a technology already in use in a few other countries that convert salt water into fresh. I think with the help of federal funding a pipeline similar to the gas lines could be use to supply fresh water from the desal plants off the coast to metro Atlanta. Another option to help fund this is the "water tax". It would be an expensive project but would be much cheaper than Atlanta being impacted economically long term.
def an option, but i dont know how much you can get from that.

we got one down here, and i doubt we get 50 million gallons a day from it, and its pretty big.

so, youd need alot of them, or a few massive ones.
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  #54  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 3:10 AM
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What's going to happen is the state will help build some smaller lakes to capture stream runoff, and the Bellwood quarry and other quarries will become reservoirs that capture water from storm drainage as well as from rivers during times of excessive flow.

Never fear - Atlanta still has plenty of inexpensive options on water!
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  #55  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 3:12 AM
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There's a quarry just south of I-85 in Gwinnett that supposedly is the largest granite quarry in the world. It's an incredible hole....much bigger than anything in Midtown.
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  #56  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 3:23 AM
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That giant sucking sound you hear is another example of our complete lack of leadership at the State level, and of course, I'm blaming Sonny Bubba.

He has been totally MIA on our transportation crisis (yes, crisis), then not a word about saving Grady - and now this. These boobs that run our State were warned about the water situation several years ago, to no avail. They have been hell-bent on paving over and building out North Georgia, and it would seem it is finally coming back to bite us in the ass.

Thanks Idiot Governor, Jesus-Save-Us Legislature and Corrupt & Evil building/paving lobby. You got your wish - we are now maxed out. Where to next?

Oh, and I can't forget a well deserved F**k You to the assholes at the Army Corp of Engineers - are you guys trying to kill off the 10th largest metro in the country, or does it just seem that way?
Is there a Water Crisis in Augusta, Savannah, or Brunswick? No. Why's that? Because they aren't relying on 2 lakes for their water.

BTW I've only been hearing about Lake Lanier and the Chattahoochee, what's the status on Lake Allatoona(ATL and North GA's "other" big lake for drinking water) and the Coosa River? I'm not sure why, but it kinda bothers me how it seems everyone on here has only been focusing on Lake Lanier and not discussing Allatoona(which I'd hope has more water left, even if it's a smaller sized lake).

It's just sad that areas like Macon/Warner Robins have their house in order with water vs. ATL(though, I've heard estimates that Macon metro has 500 days worth of water available which isn't a whole lot if I recall).
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  #57  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 3:31 AM
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Lake Allatoona has pretty much the same problem as Lanier, but good news is, a massive reservoir is already well advanced in construction somewhere in the vicinity of Allatoona. It's supposed to handle growth in the north Cobb and Cherokee areas for well into the future. Meaning probably six to nine months.
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  #58  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 7:52 AM
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Originally Posted by neilson View Post
Is there a Water Crisis in Augusta, Savannah, or Brunswick? No. Why's that? Because they aren't relying on 2 lakes for their water.

BTW I've only been hearing about Lake Lanier and the Chattahoochee, what's the status on Lake Allatoona(ATL and North GA's "other" big lake for drinking water) and the Coosa River? I'm not sure why, but it kinda bothers me how it seems everyone on here has only been focusing on Lake Lanier and not discussing Allatoona(which I'd hope has more water left, even if it's a smaller sized lake).

It's just sad that areas like Macon/Warner Robins have their house in order with water vs. ATL(though, I've heard estimates that Macon metro has 500 days worth of water available which isn't a whole lot if I recall).
Macon is apparently just fine on water if they are looking to sell water to their northern neighbors.

Macon Mayor: Sell Water to Hartsfield

MACON, Ga. (AP) -- While northern Georgia struggles in the grip of a drought, a central Georgia mayor says his own city has plenty of water and he'd like to sell some of it.

Macon Mayor Jack Ellis said he is exploring the idea of selling water from the Macon Water Authority to Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport. Ellis said he discussed the idea with Atlanta officials yesterday morning.

But an Atlanta official says that hauling water from Macon would cost too much.

Macon has a 6.5 billion gallon reservoir and enough water for nearly 500 days, according to the Macon Water Authority. Lake Lanier, which supplies water to more than three million residents in and around metro Atlanta, is at historic low levels. Governor Perdue has ordered north Georgia businesses and utilities to cut water usage by ten percent, starting November 1.

Georgia's drought is concentrated in its northern and western counties. Most of central and southeastern Georgia is not facing a water shortage.

Ellis said he focused on Hartsfield-Jackson because it is Georgia's main economic engine and must be protected. He said that if Macon can supply the airport with water, that will free more water for use elsewhere in north Georgia.

Ellis said he has asked the director of the Macon-Bibb County Emergency Management Agency to look for tanker trucks that could haul the water.
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  #59  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 8:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Fiorenza View Post
Lake Allatoona has pretty much the same problem as Lanier, but good news is, a massive reservoir is already well advanced in construction somewhere in the vicinity of Allatoona. It's supposed to handle growth in the north Cobb and Cherokee areas for well into the future. Meaning probably six to nine months.
If you are referring to the Hickory Log Creek Reservoir in Cherokee County it is estimated that it will be two more years before it comes online. The drought is actually slowing the progress on the reservoir in two ways. With the burn ban in place they cannot burn the trees that have been cleared and additionally it will take longer to fill the reservoir because of the lack of rainfall.

This reservoir is expected to only provide a 3% increase in water capacity for Cherokee and Cobb Counties. The reservoir will contain 5.7 billion gallons of water once it fills.

Link to a WSB-TV video report filed this week on the reservoir
.
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  #60  
Old Posted Oct 25, 2007, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Sketching View Post
Macon is apparently just fine on water if they are looking to sell water to their northern neighbors.

Macon Mayor: Sell Water to HartsfieldI]

Just curious, do any other areas network metro areas statewide with any sort of pipeline system. I know Georgia is already criss-crossed with oil and gas pipelines - is it just not cost-effective enough to do so for water?

It seems like if you had a water "grid" of pipelines across cities like Atlanta, Chattanooga, Macon, Savannah. You could have a give and take from cities that had excesses and cities that were running short at the time.

It would almost be like the power grid where you could be managing production and needs over a large area as needed.

I guess a big problem with that though would be that you'd then need a statewide water entity to administer.
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