Paving the Railway Cut - Page 4

Haliguy · #61 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 2:47 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrington south

in what way would trucks using the rail cut make the port more competitive?...it would relocate the semi's from Hollis and Lower Water...yes...but if you want to make the port more efficient...competative...an in land terminal is ideal, than the big rigs avoid the city altogether....and Hey, the rails are already there!!

An inland terminal would make the port less competitive the cost and time of transport would go up. Doen't make it to appealing for business.

Barrington south · #62 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 3:46 AM**

so how exactly would a single lane make the port more effective?!!. If you have a single lane that means vehicles can only travel in one direction at a time...therefore you are going to always have transports waiting for the road to clear, and since trucks are coming and going all day...it's not like they all go to the port in the morning and all leave at night...that means there will be a lot of truckers waiting around....this is less effective and therefore less competitive than the current model.

Dmajackson · #63 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 12:11 PM**

Truckers group, port shrug off rail cut news, say they’ll survive

By TOM PETERS Business Reporter
Thu. Mar 5 - 5:21 AM
The province’s decision not to go forward with expansion of the CN railway cut in Halifax to accommodate trucks from Halterm container terminal should not affect the port’s competitiveness, says the director of the provincial Gateway initiative.

"The port has been competitive and will continue to be competitive into the future," David Oxner said Wednesday. "The port continually has to look at ways to improve efficiencies and decrease costs. This was just one aspect of that. So I think the port and its partners will have to continue doing that work."

Transportation Minister Brooke Taylor said Wednesday the cost of developing an integrated transportation corridor along the railway cut from Halterm to Fairview in the west end was too high.

An in-depth analysis and study projected costs of more than $220 million. The idea of the expanded corridor was one of several projects on Premier MacDonald’s list of provincial Gateway projects that he hoped would be undertaken.

Based on previous cost studies, it was estimated the cost to develop the corridor would be around $100 million or less. The $220 million-plus price tag caught people by surprise.

Mr. Oxner said this new study shows that the original number ($80 million) developed a few years ago was really a preliminary number "and when they started to dig down deep, the numbers really grew into the $200 million-plus range."

"This study was all encompassing and very detailed."

If the province had decided to pursue the project, it may have been eligible for up to 50 per cent funding under the federal Gateway funding program.

Peter Nelson, executive-director of the Atlantic Provinces Trucking Association, said the project made sense if it was going to get truck traffic out of the downtown area.

But he said Wednesday the trucking industry can live with the fact it is not going to happen.

"The logistics look too great in terms of what had to be done in terms of the construction and engineering side. It was a mammoth project to undertake at this time, so we can certainly understand why the province might not want to go forward with it.

If the province feels the railway cut is not an option, "then we would be more than willing to work with them to look at other options," Mr. Nelson said.

The Halifax Port Authority said the concept was certainly worth studying as "other jurisdictions have similar corridors that help make transportation to and from ports efficient," authority spokeswoman Michele Peveril said in an email.

The port "will continue working with government and the port community to evaluate other ideas to ensure our port’s competiveness and improve the efficiency of our transportation system," she said.

CN, which hasn’t been overly vocal about the whole idea since it was first brought to the public’s attention, was cordial in its comment on the province’s decision.

"CN is respectful of the government’s decision and will continue to work closely with the local government and industry to promote the Atlantic Gateway," CN spokeswoman Julie Senecal said.

Mr. Oxner said there could be other options available to ease downtown truck traffic and it’s something he hopes to discuss with Halifax Regional Municipality.

"We were pretty focused on this piece of work initially, so now I think we will sit down with the city and other partners to see what other alternatives there are. That is the next step."

Haliguy · #64 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 1:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrington south

so how exactly would a single lane make the port more effective?!!. If you have a single lane that means vehicles can only travel in one direction at a time...therefore you are going to always have transports waiting for the road to clear, and since trucks are coming and going all day...it's not like they all go to the port in the morning and all leave at night...that means there will be a lot of truckers waiting around....this is less effective and therefore less competitive than the current model.

I would try and expalin it to you but why bother if you can't figure it out for yourself theres really is no point. It not hard to figure out really if you know anything about this type of thing

hfx_chris · #65 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 3:54 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haliguy

I would try and expalin it to you but why bother if you can't figure it out for yourself theres really is no point. It not hard to figure out really if you know anything about this type of thing

What is there to figure out? It's simple physics, two solid objects (transport trucks) cannot pass through each other, thus one must wait until the other is out of the way before it can proceed. It would only take a couple of head-on collisions before that lesson was learned.

Haliguy · #66 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

What is there to figure out? It's simple physics, two solid objects (transport trucks) cannot pass through each other, thus one must wait until the other is out of the way before it can proceed. It would only take a couple of head-on collisions before that lesson was learned.

Thats not what I'm talking about I was talking about competitiveness....geeeach something you guys can't seem to comprehend.

Barrington south · #67 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 4:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bedford_DJ

By TOM PETERS Business Reporter
Thu. Mar 5 - 5:21 AM
The province’s decision not to go forward with expansion of the CN railway cut in Halifax to accommodate trucks from Halterm container terminal should not affect the port’s competitiveness, says the director of the provincial Gateway initiative.
"

"SHOULD NOT EFFECT THE PORT'S COMPETITIVENESS"...and there talking about a rail cut expansion-multi lane corridor....when you take into account your one lane road's inherent flaw...one way traffic at a time...it would even less efficient and there fore EVEN LESS competitive...

Barrington south · #68 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 4:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spitfire75

I think we should wait and put this corridor towards a better use (LRT?) in the future. It's not too often you get a rail corridor from the south end to Bedford (easily expandable to Burnside and "downtown" Sackville), let's not mess it up.

the moreI thnk about this idea, the more i'm starting to warm up to it

Barrington south · #69 Posted **Mar 5, 2009, 4:40 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by hfx_chris

Ideally it would be returned to rail usage.

yes, I agree

Haliguy · #70 Posted **Mar 6, 2009, 10:18 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrington south

"SHOULD NOT EFFECT THE PORT'S COMPETITIVENESS"...and there talking about a rail cut expansion-multi lane corridor....when you take into account your one lane road's inherent flaw...one way traffic at a time...it would even less efficient and there fore EVEN LESS competitive...

How do you figure...with an inland port you have unload the container off the truck which will then sit there and then it will have to be loaded on a train then wait for the train to fill up and then it will be transported by train to the port loaded off the train sit there and wait for it to be loaded on a ship. All this takes time and not only that puts the costs way up... yeah really competitive. Give your head a shake man and do not put your words in captital letters in just rude...

Barrington south · #71 Posted **Mar 6, 2009, 10:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrington south

"SHOULD NOT EFFECT THE PORT'S COMPETITIVENESS"...and there talking about a rail cut expansion-multi lane corridor....when you take into account your one lane road's inherent flaw...one way traffic at a time...it would even less efficient and there fore EVEN LESS competitive...

EVEN LESS COMPETITIVE THAN THE CURRANT MODEL!!! ....do you have a hard time following a conversation sunshine?....ohhh and don't tell me not to write in capitals....I'll do what I like

Barrington south · #72 Posted **Mar 6, 2009, 10:38 PM**

a one way road is a hair brain idea...

hfx_chris · #73 Posted **Mar 6, 2009, 11:01 PM**

I agree, and to think people actually thought paving the rail cut was a good idea...

Also, don't be an asshole okay? It's not particularly becoming...

Barrington south · #74 Posted **Mar 6, 2009, 11:43 PM**

yeah, sorry for being an A**hole....sorry Hailguy...guess I got a little worked up

Haliguy · #75 Posted **Mar 7, 2009, 1:33 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barrington south

EVEN LESS COMPETITIVE THAN THE CURRANT MODEL!!! ....do you have a hard time following a conversation sunshine?....ohhh and don't tell me not to write in capitals....I'll do what I like

Did I say that?. ..no ... it is less competitive than paving the rail cut and would not make much of difference than the current model in competiveness yes. The only benefit of it is that it will get the trucks off the downtown streets which is a bonus but as far as making the port more competitive with an inland port not really there sunshine... why don't you clam down and actually discuss it instead of yelling with your opinionated rants.

Barrington south · #76 Posted **Mar 7, 2009, 1:55 AM**

I said I was sorry, I won't yell in the future...but I'm not sorry for stating my opinion....much like you do...

Empire · #77 Posted **Mar 7, 2009, 12:49 PM**

I don't know why HRM isn't all over a developing an LRT. They could do a pilot project buy buying or renting one double stacked GO TRAIN car from TTC. Maybe a bus could be fitted with retractable wheels like the maintenance vehicles that CN use. A line could run from Mt. Uniacke to the Westin. Tracks could be installed in Hollis St. and run to Purdy's. Park & Rides could provide space for commuters from Sackville, Bedford and Hammonds Plains. A line could go to Downtown Dartmouth. One could take the ferry from downtown Halifax transfer to an H-Train and go all the way to Mt. Uniacke if a train wasn't available on Hollis St.

hfx_chris · #78 Posted **Mar 9, 2009, 5:06 PM**

Indeed.

I can tell you one thing though, a normal transit bus is not structurally safe enough to ever be allowed to operate on CN tracks along side other trains.
There are systems however, guided busways in use in some parts of the world, basically a normal bus with guide wheels and tracks - not steel rail tracks. Check out the O-Bahn Busway in Adelaide, Australia.
Probably not practical for Halifax.. but interesting none the less. Would allow the buses to run on regular city streets downtown, but have its own private ROW off of the peninsula.

something_witty · #79 Posted **Mar 10, 2009, 4:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Empire

I don't know why HRM isn't all over a developing an LRT. They could do a pilot project buy buying or renting one double stacked GO TRAIN car from TTC. Maybe a bus could be fitted with retractable wheels like the maintenance vehicles that CN use. A line could run from Mt. Uniacke to the Westin. Tracks could be installed in Hollis St. and run to Purdy's. Park & Rides could provide space for commuters from Sackville, Bedford and Hammonds Plains. A line could go to Downtown Dartmouth. One could take the ferry from downtown Halifax transfer to an H-Train and go all the way to Mt. Uniacke if a train wasn't available on Hollis St.

Just to note, GO TRAINS would not be considered LRT. These run on standard guage lines, are are large capacity commuter trains. Something more like the Bombardier trains they use in Ottawa would be more in line. Also, lets face it, we probably won't be seeing LRT in our lifetimes...

hfx_chris · #80 Posted **Mar 10, 2009, 6:56 PM**

For what it's worth, Ottawa's O-train uses standard gauge as well. I think the only reason they are allowed to operate the structurally inferior O-train on the same tracks as freight trains, is because CN doesn't use it during the day, only at night when the O-train isn't running.