Should the NDP change their name to The Democratic Party? - Page 2

GernB · #21 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 12:14 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

All the parties are "social" as well. Though there is no need to call the Liberals the Social Liberals or Social Conservatives.
.

Social Democrats; i.e. they believe in social democracy, or at least say that they do.

Nouvellecosse · #22 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 2:10 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Do Canadians perceive Obama and the Democrats in a negative way? I thought the opposite was true.

It has nothing (or little) to do with the specific parties and more the perception of US cultural and political conventions creeping across the border. The US political process is not perceived as functional or desirable due to things like the poisonous nature of political discourse and rhetoric, government shut downs and political deadlock, and the role of corporate money etc. And people would view it simply as an example of deferring a Canadian paradigm to adopt a "superior" US version that lacks any domestic relevance.

logan5 · #23 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 2:29 AM**

Basically an image change, no adopting any US style policies. I presume you get that. The NDP needs an image shake up. I my opinion the name change would help.

The political process is pretty much identical here so I'm not sure where you're going with that.

MolsonExport · #24 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 2:33 AM**

they should call themselves the Laytons. Happy Endings.

Nouvellecosse · #25 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 2:36 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

Basically an image change, no adopting any US style policies. I presume you get that. The NDP needs an image shake up. I my opinion the name change would help.

The political process is pretty much identical here so I'm not sure where you're going with that.

It has nothing to do with what I would or wouldn't "get", but how I foresee the branding be perceived by the public. I don't predict that it would create a positive perception.

And I strongly disagree that the political system is identical or even terribly similar between the two countries.

logan5 · #26 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 2:48 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

It has nothing to do with what I would or wouldn't "get", but how I foresee the branding be perceived by the public. I don't predict that it would create a positive perception.

I understand that. Overall I think a new branding would be a positive for the party. Like I mentioned earlier, Bernie Sanders New branding has put him in the forefront of American politics with his same social democrat policies. How the party is perceived is a matter of opinion of course.

Elmira Guy · #27 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 2:54 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GernB

Very popular? Maybe in comparison to his immediate predecessor...but I doubt he'd rate highly on any list of "favourite" American politicians any Canadians might have.

Oh, I'll bet there's a lot of younger (under 30 years old) people who would have him at the top of that list.

FrAnKs · #28 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 3:06 AM**

Very bad idea, it will be P.D. in french....

P.D. = faggot

logan5 · #29 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 3:11 AM**

The point is to drop the abbreviation. No DP or PD. Liberal. Conservative. Democrat.

MolsonExport · #30 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 3:23 AM**

acronyms can be problematic. Hell, remember the Canadian Conservative Reform Alliance Party (CCRAP)?

quite apt, actually.

bkd · #31 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 4:28 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by GernB

Very popular? Maybe in comparison to his immediate predecessor...but I doubt he'd rate highly on any list of "favourite" American politicians any Canadians might have.

There were polls shown early on in the federal election thread that showed Obama's favorability ratings in Canada were absolutely massive. Around 70%.

red-paladin · #32 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 4:30 AM**

Bad idea.
If electoral reform goes through (whichever kind) the NDP will have a larger role in the house and there may never be a majority government again.
Considering while the NDP did end up getting smoked, during this election they were #1 several times. Changing their name after two very good elections (speaking historically for them) would be confusing. Picking the identical name of an American party that doesn't share their values (American Democrats are more like Red Tories than even Liberals and especially not NDP) would be stupid.

GernB · #33 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 5:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elmira Guy

Oh, I'll bet there's a lot of younger (under 30 years old) people who would have him at the top of that list.

God, that's just sad...when he was elected so much was expected of him. He's turned out to be such a drone...just business as usual.

GernB · #34 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 5:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkd

There were polls shown early on in the federal election thread that showed Obama's favorability ratings in Canada were absolutely massive. Around 70%.

See above.

logan5 · #35 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 5:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by red-paladin

Bad idea.
If electoral reform goes through (whichever kind) the NDP will have a larger role in the house and there may never be a majority government again.
Considering while the NDP did end up getting smoked, during this election they were #1 several times. Changing their name after two very good elections (speaking historically for them) would be confusing. Picking the identical name of an American party that doesn't share their values (American Democrats are more like Red Tories than even Liberals and especially not NDP) would be stupid.

The democrats are leaning left in America. Obama is left leaning. And Sanders is very left and gaining traction. The democrats in the US are becoming the new democrats.

One person argued that we are adopting or pecieved to be adopting American ideals, but I think The opposite is true. Americans are adopting Canadian ideals or policy. Some people here automatically presume position of weakness. The democratic party is trying to emulate the Canadian and European model.

Loco101 · #36 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 5:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

The point is to drop the abbreviation. No DP or PD. Liberal. Conservative. Democrat.

Or maybe go with names that can be used in both English and French.

GernB · #37 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 5:19 AM**

Double post..

GernB · #38 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 5:21 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

The democrats are leaning left in America. Obama is left leaning. And Sanders is very left and gaining traction. The democrats in the US are becoming the new democrats

One person argued that we are adopting or pecieved to be adopting American ideals, but I think The opposite is true. Americans are adopting Canadian ideals or policy. Some people here automatically presume position of weakness. The democratic party is trying to emulate the Canadian and European model.

There are no left leaning parties in the US. Our centre-right party would be considered dangerously leftist in the US.

Americans neither know nor care about Canadian ideals or policy.

red-paladin · #39 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 5:35 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

The democrats are leaning left in America. Obama is left leaning. And Sanders is very left and gaining traction. The democrats in the US are becoming the new democrats.

One person argued that we are adopting or pecieved to be adopting American ideals, but I think The opposite is true. Americans are adopting Canadian ideals or policy. Some people here automatically presume position of weakness. The democratic party is trying to emulate the Canadian and European model.

The Democrats are SEEN as left leaning from inside the US, but they are not as left as the Liberals in Canada. Some examples: A great many democrats would never accept Canada's level of universal healthcare, that even the Conservatives here support. The Democratic party isn't completely behind abolishing the death penalty, when the Conservative party's members may muse about it, but would never implement it. The US Democrats are unable to do anything much about the environment, as not all of their base even believes climate change is happening, so they are to the right of the Liberal party when it comes to that.

I also agree that they are not copying to catching up to any Canadian or European policy, they are doing the bare minimum to be centrist as far as the rest of the world is concerned.

As far as Bernie Sanders goes, he calls himself a socialist, but he's not nearly to the left of the NDP, whom are Social Democrats. Reform Liberalism (The Liberal Party is usually classified as) is about equality of opportunity. Social Democracy is about Equality of Opportunity and using the State to level some conditions, extend opportunities. Socialism is about Equality of condition, where people's quality of life is being evened out. Bernie Sanders is not a socialist, never was even Tommy Douglas (He was a religious man and a key part of socialism is wiping out bourgeois things like religions and remaining traces of patriarchy. (Communism being identicality of condition, usually meaning everyone is poor)

Nouvellecosse · #40 Posted **Nov 1, 2015, 7:09 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

One person argued that we are adopting or pecieved to be adopting American ideals, but I think The opposite is true. Americans are adopting Canadian ideals or policy. Some people here automatically presume position of weakness. The democratic party is trying to emulate the Canadian and European model.

You think the opposite is true that we aren't adopting them, or that it wouldn't create the perception of adopting them? That's really what it comes down to; if the question is simply whether or not the name is appropriate or accurate or whether or not it makes for an improved brand or public image. If it's the latter, then whether or not it's accurate is mostly irrelevant. The important thing is how it's seen.

In that respect, when it comes to one country that's so much more populous than the other, it isn't a matter of "presuming" a position of weakness, it's that we simply, undebateably are in a position of weakness in the context of public recognition and brand ownership. If the two countries equally share something, that thing is seen as being a trait of the larger country with the smaller country simply not being unique or independent enough to have it's own separate iteration. This is the case even when the countries develop things simultaneously. Not because it's fair or accurate, but simply because that's how perception works. If something is equally common in the US and Canada, the US will have 9 times more people doing it than Canada does. So it's not too shocking that if 9 out of 10 people doing it are American, that it's therefore seen as a mainly American activity.

And the even bigger factor is that the US party has a long and storied past under that name and the Canadian party's use of it would be brand new.

Not that there's anything wrong with the idea of re-branding, but I think we can come up with a better brand.