30 km speed limit plan endorsed

[coalminecanary]

And Toronto uses one way streets in a way completely different than we do: as a means to control speed and route of through traffic. Try taking a shortcut through a neighbourhood downtown to try to avoid traffic on spadina or bathurst - good luck - they create small one way sections and forced turns to avoid it. And gue3ss what, it works. The neighbourhoods are much more livable when through traffic is reduced and slowed down.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by Jon Dalton

Toronto does one better, they have neighbourhoods full of speed bumps so you can't go over 30 without breaking something. Hamilton needs to get in the game.

Here's what I heard from the mouth of a councillor regarding speed bumps on residential streets, and I paraphrase;

If the city were to install speed bumps, and someone were to hit one at a high rate of speed, lose control of their car and end up crashing. The city could be liable for having installed the speed bump that caused the crash.
Also, it was implied the crash might result in an injury to children playing outside............ Hence, speed bumps make neighbourhoods more dangerous.

No word of a lie, that's what I heard come out of the councillors mouth. My jaw dropped, but at least at that moment I had a clear understanding of what 'we' are up against.

[coalminecanary]

Who said that? I can only guess is was Lloyd "Driving 30km/h is Impossible" Ferguson. Is he for real?

[SteelTown]

This could take YEARS to implement. I doubt we'll see 30 km speed limit until 2011 or 2012.

[flar]

It takes years to put up 30km/h signs?

Most of these are little residential streets, the impact studies shouldn't be too difficult.

[SteelTown]

Can't do a thing until Setting Sail is settled with OMB. Once that's done there's a list of things needed to be implement first.

[FairHamilton]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

Who said that? I can only guess is was Lloyd "Driving 30km/h is Impossible" Ferguson. Is he for real?

Who said it doesn't really matter, it goes to show how ingrained the car culture is within council. BTW, it wasn't Lloyd.

I would take 40kmh actively enforced, over 30kmh not enforced any day.

[coalminecanary]

I would take active calming over posted signs. Curb bump outs, speed tables at all intersections and forced dead end streets...

[omro]

Where I live the scheme in residential areas is "Twenty's plenty" (mph) and there are speed bumps everywhere!

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by coalminecanary

I would take active calming over posted signs. Curb bump outs, speed tables at all intersections and forced dead end streets...

yeah..but that's more expensive.

[SteelTown]

http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/...__PW08094a.pdf

That at such time as the recommended traffic management strategy is substantially constructed, the speed limit on all streets within the North End Neighbourhood, save James Street North and Burlington Street East, be set at 30 km/hr, as a Pilot Project for a duration of five (5) years, and that the appropriate by-law to amend the City of Hamilton Traffic By-law 01-215 be passed and enacted

That 30 km/h not be implemented within any other neighbourhood in Hamilton until the effects of this Pilot Project are analyzed and proven to be effective and be justified to continue

[adam]

The north end is the poorest part of Hamilton... all the people living there trying to get to work at minimum wage jobs are going to be slapped with speeding tickets for going 40km/h (40 in a 30 zone is 125% the limit).

When are they going to start enforcing the 50km/h unless otherwise posted limits in all other parts of the lower city? Wouldn't this have a more dramatic impact? It also doesn't involve putting up any signs since the law already exists. The cops just have to start enforcing it.

[highwater]

Actually, it's the people who are living there who have been asking for the 30km speed limit on their streets for several years. The city is finally doing right by this neighbourhood.

[emge]

LOL... the poor are definitely the ones DRIVING in this city. Nice one.

This is actually one of the best areas in the North End, and as highwater mentioned, residents have been asking for this for a long time.

[mattgrande]

As someone who drives in that area, 30km/h seems a bit slow, but as someone who bikes in that area... 30km/h still seems a little slow.

[highwater]

Well Matt, one of the many things that has held neighbourhood revitalization back is that planners have only been listening to people who drive through areas instead of the people who actually live in them. If this pilot project means that Hamilton is finally joining the many cities that have already made the shift to seeing streets as public spaces and not merely traffic conduits, I hope you won't begrudge the minor inconvenience.

[mattgrande]

Originally Posted by highwater

Well Matt, one of the many things that has held neighbourhood revitalization back is that planners have only been listening to people who drive through areas instead of the people who actually live in them. If this pilot project means that Hamilton is finally joining the many cities that have already made the shift to seeing streets as public spaces and not merely traffic conduits, I hope you won't begrudge the minor inconvenience.

Thank you for speaking to me like I'm speeding through the North End on a daily basis and only care about how quickly I can get from point A to point B.

I'm all for slowing traffic on streets like Burlington, James, York, and Barton, but this specifically excludes two of those. I've never had a problem with traffic on MacNab, Hillyard, Ferguson or Mulberry.

Haven't there been studies done that show simply lowering the limit doesn't change how people drive? We need traffic calming, not lower limits. This feels like an excuse to write more tickets.

[SteelTown]

North End citizens fight city for more traffic calming measures

Ken Peters
http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...lming-measures

North End residents have no problem with the rest of the city traipsing through their neighbourhood to visit the waterfront.

They just want them to be polite about it.

That’s the gist of an expected nine-day Ontario Municipal Board Hearing that began Monday at the McMaster University’s Downtown Centre. The hearing will examine whether the municipality’s Setting Sailplanning document, which will lower speed limits on many North End streets, does enough to keep the area’s roads safe enough.

The North End Neighbours, who have appealed the matter being heard before OMB chair Harold Goldkind, says it doesn’t. The group, through their lawyer Herman Turkstra, want speed limit reductions from 50 kilometres an hour to 30 km/h on Burlington Street East, Wellington Street, Ferguson Avenue, John Street and James Street, a redesignation of Bay Street North from collector to local road status and other traffic measures to safeguard the neighbourhood’s 1,200 children.

The neighbourhood is bounded by Wellington Street on the east, the CNR tracks on the south, and Burlington Bay on the west and north sides.

“When you hear councillors say they don’t want people from Ancaster who come down to get a suntan to get a parking ticket, the real issue is does the city really intend to ensure the traffic calming work in the North End and will it be safe for kids to cross the street or not,” Turkstra said.

“The view of the North End Neighbourhood Association is that the present plan does not do anything to address the core issue of child and family safety,” he said.

Turkstra plans to present evidence that what the North End wants is a trade off of 32 seconds, the difference it may take a waterfront bound visitor from travelling down a major collector at 30 km/h rather than the current 50 km/h.

“What the North End is saying is: ‘If you want to come from Ancaster and drive through the neighbourhood, that’s fine. Use James Street and drive slowly. That’s all. Come. We welcome you. We would prefer if you came on foot or by bike or by bus, but if you are going to come by car the speed limit is 30 (km/h), be careful.

“It’s like coming into someone’s house and saying, ‘Do you want me to take my shoes off?’ When you’re a guest in somebody’s house, you’re kind to them,” he said.

But Brian Duxbury, representing the city, told Goldkind that there is a narrow set of issues that are in conflict between the two parties.

Duxbury said a number of traffic calming measures have been approved by city council as part of a traffic management plan included in the Setting Sail policy plan.

“It’s the city’s position that the plan contains a robust and aggressive bundle of traffic calming measures for the North End Neighbours,” Duxbury said. “The city’s position is that no further revisions are needed to Setting Sail.”

The hearing is set to continue Tuesday.

[drpgq]

Personally I think the waterfront belongs to all the citizens of Hamilton rather than being the private reserve of the cranks from the North End Neighbourhood Association who deign to allow other citizens to come on their terms.

[SteelTown]

James and Burlington to remain at 50 km/h despite neighbourhood fight

http://www.thespec.com/news/local/ar...bourhood-fight

The final appeal is over and the city can at last move forward with their redevelopment plans for the west harbour lands.

The Ontario Municipal Board has dismissed an appeal by Hamilton’s north end neighbourhood association to slow traffic on James Street North and Burlington Street East — the last decision the city was waiting on before implementation of their 2002 Setting Sail plan.

“We’ve been waiting on appeals for some years and now is the really very exciting part,” Councillor Jason Farr said Sunday.

“A lot of us are very excited to roll up our sleeves on something that’s going to be, I think, extremely significant in terms of waterfront development.”

Setting Sail is the city’s framework for the redevelopment of the west harbour lands, with a mixture of residential, commercial and recreational uses.

The traffic management portion aims to address the influx of traffic likely to accompany future and ongoing waterfront development — a concern for residents and families who call the evolving neighbourhood home.

Among other traffic control measures, the plan called for reduced speeds on north end residential streets, excluding the “primary mobility streets,” James and Burlington.

But North End Neighbours — the official neighbourhood association for the area’s residents — went to the OMB with a request to include those streets in the plan.

Two years later their request has been denied, with the OMB citing the importance of those major arterials for preventing traffic congestion.

While NEN members were disappointed by the loss, they are excited to finally see the rest of the traffic management plan move forward — to see tangible results on their streets.

“I think people are going to be happy with this plan, but I think they’re going to be disappointed that we didn’t get the whole neighbourhood,” NEN secretary Sheri Selway said.

“We’re still discussing our options on where we can go from here … (at least) we do have a traffic management plan, so I think that is good.”

The group has set a meeting for Jan. 15 at the Bennetto Recreation Centre downtown to discuss implementation. Neighbours are invited to share their input on what traffic control measures they’d like to see first — such as signage or bump-outs.

Farr has set aside discretionary funds for two “quick wins” to speed up the process: a closure at Hughson and Guise and a partial closure at Burlington and Guise.

“I’m excited about now we can all work together,” Farr said.

Most importantly, the ball is officially rolling — which means speed limits, technically, are now down to 30 km/h on north-end side streets.

“All downtown neighbourhoods are really working to be safe places to raise families,” Selway said. “It’s going to be a long struggle to make sure that we are pedestrian-friendly.”