Regina | New Mosaic Stadium

[CCF]

Originally Posted by mjpaul

so we can afford $278 million but NOT $431 million.

what ever happened to our progressive thinkers? epically huge mistake being made here,,,,

they could have built the dome at Evraz place if they needed to save on land costs. hopefully the dome debate will rersurface

I would say there's a significant difference between the costs of the two proposals.

Had the Feds offered financial support, I have no doubt that we would have ended up with a covered stadium. Ultimately the price tag was too much for the province and city to cover.

[Welkin]

Originally Posted by CCF

I would say there's a significant difference between the costs of the two proposals.

Had the Feds offered financial support, I have no doubt that we would have ended up with a covered stadium. Ultimately the price tag was too much for the province and city to cover.

The price tag was too much on the front end and the ongoing operation costs would have been dramatically higher. In the end, the total added cost was just too much for very little additional return in facility usage. I know that many people are disappointed that we are not going to build the sports and entertainment mega dome complex, but in reality we dodged a huge bullet here and we should be thankful that our civic leaders realized that fact. At $278 million this will be a top-notch facility that we all can be proud to call our own. Go Riders.

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by mjpaul

so we can afford $278 million but NOT $431 million.

what ever happened to our progressive thinkers? epically huge mistake being made here,,,,

they could have built the dome at Evraz place if they needed to save on land costs. hopefully the dome debate will rersurface

plus the $431 million is really well over $500 million with construction inflation.

[Dougler306]

Yeah the dome stadium would be great, but in reality there is no way the city could afford that and i dont think evraz would have allowed us to build there if it was domed, that would completly take away from evraz's purpose of being an inclosed convention center/trade show.

I was also thinking of new redners but then couldnt they just use the current desgin, just with no roof?? I thought the current desgin was kick ass, just not the the name of it, id like to see it be called mosaic stadium again, just cuz the potash company has done lots for our city and they deserve recongnition.

[jvj]

Well, after lots of reading...and a couple of days to digest all of this I think I understand the conclusion...although I still see a few issues. If an affordable open air stadium can be built at Evraz Place, with a well placed group (REAL) ready to become the operators then I think this is the best choice. I will admit that I was intrigued by the idea of a Dewdney Avenue location, but at some point the financial limitations have to dictate the decision.

One item that is still a little vague is the operating costs and the potential for the facility to actually operate at a profitable basis, year to year. There was a pro-forma done by Global Spectrum in 2010 that suggested a multi purpose could generate a profit on $1M per year, but I think a lot of people questioned whether that report was valid. So the question now becomes is someone (REAL) doing another pro-forma to determine what type of financial numbers an open air facility will generate?

One drawback I see is the potential to host future Grey Cups. This should at least rate a mention in the City of Regina documents...but when they created their "Summary Assesment" table, they neglected to include Grey Cup hosting as an item to consider. I think with an MPF in place we would have likely put forward our names as a host every 5 or 6 years...but with an outdoor facility, I think we're going to back to every 10 or 12 years. Also, we'll have to deal with the familiar issue of cost/logistics to incorporate another 15 to 20K seats each time we host. Again I'm not saying that is justification for an MPF on Dewdney, but it is a drawback to the Evraz/open air decision.

The other item that bugs me is the CP land transaction process. There was a Memorandum of Understanding signed way back in 2009 but apparently it took until this month to determine exactly how much land would be available. You have to assume that the city was 90 - 95%% certain they were going to be able to acquire all 33 acres. To spend $1M on a feasibility study and debate it for 2 years only to find out that all the land use assumptions were incorrect does not look good on the CIC/City of Regina group that put the 2010 report together. I guess the question is did CP renege on some earlier discussions and statements...but due to the confidential nature of these discussions we'll probably never know the real truth. It seems strange that they've made a decision to move most of their operation to the Global Hub, but they then decide to keep certain items functional back at the Dewdney Avenue location. Hopefully that doesn't end up deterring any of the development on Dewdney, but it does end up creating some odd shaped land parcels.

A few other questions are bouncing around in my head...but that's enough for now!

[osmo]

With a dome your guaranteed to lose cash. If favorable terms are met with rent, parking, naming rights and demanding a cut of PSLs the facility will break even or loose a pittance in servicing the debt. The 5-8 million just to keep the heat and lights on us gone. I need to research further to find comparisons in operating costs for similar sized venues in close climate but it won't cost us that much I presume.

In regards to GCs the rotation will vary I still believe the CFL and TSN will only lock in Toronto on a consistent basis to try and grow the games scope and pockets but hosting every 6-8 years seems realistic. An outdoor facility leaves greater room for temporary expansion versus a dome so getting 50k+ in the new stadium won't be an issue.

An opportunity now is to grow the scope of our exhibition. Now Evraz can bring in a big time name for a large show every year like you see take place with American State Fairs.

[jvj]

Originally Posted by CCF

The proposed location is a block further than its current - I don't think that extra block will change where people park or how they get to the game.

Actually it's 6 or 7 blocks further to the west...granted those are short blocks measured in the east-west direction. For a better comparision I checked it out on Google earth...using the Cornwall Centre as a starting point, it's about a half mile to Mosaic stadium...this increases to a full mile if you want to walk to Evraz. I made that half mile walk once last year, and I'm pretty sure that's my limit.

I would think for a lot of people that length of walk is going to take a downtown parking spot out of the equation. For reference a CP location (and a pedway) would have reduced that walk to about 1/5th of a mile.

Maybe we need to come up with some type of passenger rail car system that could shuttle people from the Casino area over to Evraz???

[CCF]

Originally Posted by jvj

Actually it's 6 or 7 blocks further to the west...granted those are short blocks measured in the east-west direction. For a better comparision I checked it out on Google earth...using the Cornwall Centre as a starting point, it's about a half mile to Mosaic stadium...this increases to a full mile if you want to walk to Evraz. I made that half mile walk once last year, and I'm pretty sure that's my limit.

I would think for a lot of people that length of walk is going to take a downtown parking spot out of the equation. For reference a CP location (and a pedway) would have reduced that walk to about 1/5th of a mile.

Maybe we need to come up with some type of passenger rail car system that could shuttle people from the Casino area over to Evraz???

7 blocks? Really? It looks as if the proposal is expected to go across from the Field House on Elphinstone. Is that actually 7 blocks? Even if it - I still don't think it will be that much of an issue - it looks and feels close to Mosaic as is and that has an impact on how people commute. A significant proportion of people park at Evraz right now and walk to Mosaic, so there's a clear connection between the two.

In anycase - if they stop using downtown parking, even better. That will cut into the profit margins of some of these surface parking lots and then maybe they will be developed.

[North_Regina_Boy]

Well it would make getting buses in and our of the site easier. I prefer that option when I can anyway WAY less hassle. Plus all the cheering on the bus gets you pumped up even more then you already are!

[wacko]

Thinking about parking logistics now...

The Brandt Centre claims parking for 3,000 vehicles is available on site. A portion of the proposed stadium site is used for parking, but not that much of it. It's basically a big empty lot right now, to be made bigger once the buildings to the west are torn down. So overall, parking shouldn't be impacted too much once the stadium is completed. Also some of the parking at the Lawson/Fieldhouse and along N Railway St can still be utilized the same way it is now.

It would be nice if the city stepped up promotion of the Football Express (park-and-ride) endeavours for 'Rider games. I'm presuming that buses would utilize the lot immediately to the north of the site (by the Armoury).

One thing I would hope for is that the parking lots at Evraz Place get repaved, because right now, some of them are in sad shape.

[sask1982]

Think of this: A Rider game on at the same time as The Queen City Ex (aka Buffalo Days). For the hard-core's...do the Riders' usually have a home game that weekend?

[wacko]

I recall in 2008 that parking at Evraz Place was unavailable for a 'Rider game because of set-up for Buffalo Days. If the new stadium is located at Evraz Place, they can't do that anymore. One way around it is for the 'Riders to request that the CFL schedule a Friday home game and then be away the following weekend.

[boborider]

I know it is not a scientific survey but interesting anyway. CBC, on their website, conducted a poll asking whether people wanted open air, domed or retractable. More than 70% chose a closed roof, of which 48% preferred a retractable. Clearly, the open air option is not the preferred choice of those who chose to vote. Additionally, when Jim Hobson, Rider CEO, commented to the media and although diplomatic, was clear he preferred the retractable roof. We are missing a huge opportunity here.

[CCF]

Originally Posted by boborider

I know it is not a scientific survey but interesting anyway. CBC, on their website, conducted a poll asking whether people wanted open air, domed or retractable. More than 70% chose a closed roof, of which 48% preferred a retractable. Clearly, the open air option is not the preferred choice of those who chose to vote. Additionally, when Jim Hobson, Rider CEO, commented to the media and although diplomatic, was clear he preferred the retractable roof. We are missing a huge opportunity here.

I'd like a another home in Beverly Hills! Doesn't mean I can necessarily afford that.

[ceedub1170]

Originally Posted by CCF

I'd like a another home in Beverly Hills! Doesn't mean I can necessarily afford that.

But if we pooled our money together, I bet we could afford that house.

[Stormer]

What are peoples' views on the impact of the $13 million Grey Cup Legacy Project on this proposal. It seems to me with an extra $500k to upgrade washrooms, we could make do with this for quite a while.

Rider Video on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtni16x6FXQ

[Stormer]

Originally Posted by ceedub1170

But if we pooled our money together, I bet we could afford that house.

...and if you owned 100 billion tonnes of potash reserves ($50 trillion at today's prices if you could get it out of the ground), you could afford a pretty sweet shack.

[Nathan]

Originally Posted by Stormer

What are peoples' views on the impact of the $13 million Grey Cup Legacy Project on this proposal. It seems to me with an extra $500k to upgrade washrooms, we could make do with this for quite a while.

Rider Video on
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtni16x6FXQ

I think it makes mosaic stadium viable for another 5 years. The east side (slightly renovated washrooms or not) is still a junk heap.

[mjpaul]

Originally Posted by Nathan

I think it makes mosaic stadium viable for another 5 years. The east side (slightly renovated washrooms or not) is still a junk heap.

"Mosaic Stadium is currently undergoing $14.2 million in renovations. The upgrades include the addition"

and the stadium will be torn down in 3 or 4 years? honest to God there are some incredibly stupid people making some some bizarre decisions. that money could be put towards the new stadium. makes you want to scream into your pillow

[CCF]

Originally Posted by mjpaul

"Mosaic Stadium is currently undergoing $14.2 million in renovations. The upgrades include the addition"

and the stadium will be torn down in 3 or 4 years? honest to God there are some incredibly stupid people making some some bizarre decisions. that money could be put towards the new stadium. makes you want to scream into your pillow

Well - I'm assuming they believe that what they put in $14.2 million will generate more than that in revenue. Furthermore, some of the stands will be dismantled and located to other venues in the province. You have to assume some of the things like the LED screens will be located elsewhere as well.

It's not as if they are going to bulldoze the entire site, without salvaging things. The money they are putting in will likely generate an increase in revenue and offer infrastructure to other locations once Mosaic is finished with them.