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  #941  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 9:35 PM
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Originally Posted by CONative View Post
Yeah, well...that's what Eastbridge was like when I moved into it before you did (or anyone did since we were one of the first) in early 2005. Everyone thought it was "way out there" back then. I have owned a house in 3 areas of Stapleton since 2005 and now live in the Northfield area. It feels just like the other hoods did before they matured. It will take time...just like everything does/has.
Oh, you're one of "those people" in Stapleton lol! I'm too lazy to move, and now I'm liking Eastbridge. So I just had the kitchen updated and floors redone.
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  #942  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 10:12 PM
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I'm kind of surprised how little has been added to the Northfield shopping area over the years. At this point, with all the housing to the north and now a couple decent hotels, seems like all the restaurants and stores are quite crowded now. I wish they'd build another "main st." to the east of the current one, making it one big shopping block you could go around. H&M going in across from Macy's is probably a good thing. I'm also surprised noting sticks where that Toby Keith restaurant was (which I refused to ever step foot in).
Fun fact: Before Toby Keith that was a Border's book store.

I'm hoping that the 2nd phase of the Aster Conservatory Green and the Wonderland Townhomes going along 46th begins the process of enclosing Northfield and making the area feel like a retail district versus an open air mall.
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  #943  
Old Posted Jul 26, 2017, 10:32 PM
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Oh, you're one of "those people" in Stapleton lol! I'm too lazy to move, and now I'm liking Eastbridge. So I just had the kitchen updated and floors redone.
There's been some great publicity about Stanley Marketplace and East Stapleton, etc. In case you missed them, here's two: HERE and HERE
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  #944  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 1:37 AM
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There's been some great publicity about Stanley Marketplace and East Stapleton, etc. In case you missed them, here's two: HERE and HERE
Stanley is a pretty nice retrofit - but getting there is a bit complicated. And the surrounding neighborhood could use some work. I wish a concept this size could work within the city of Denver. Perhaps the RockDrill place can turn out like this?
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  #945  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:38 PM
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Fun fact: Before Toby Keith that was a Border's book store.

I'm hoping that the 2nd phase of the Aster Conservatory Green and the Wonderland Townhomes going along 46th begins the process of enclosing Northfield and making the area feel like a retail district versus an open air mall.
Yeah, I remember Borders and wish it were still there. I guess people just don't read beyond memes on their social media apps anymore

I think one issue with Northfield is that they're trying to cater to 3 divergent groups of shoppers. More rural people who have driven in to Bass Pro, younger urban people who may not have a ton of money, and then middle-aged Stapleton parents. Not that I've never had a reason to go into Bass Pro, but I haven't been in there in at least 3 years. They have good outdoor gear, but I don't hunt/fish/shoot/boat/camp. And I'm not going to step foot in Zumies since I'm not 15 (although with Stapleton kids growing up, that place will probably do well). Harkins is great for all though, as well as some of the restaurants. We tried the Texas Roadhouse once and... never again.
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  #946  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:40 PM
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Stanley is a pretty nice retrofit - but getting there is a bit complicated. And the surrounding neighborhood could use some work. I wish a concept this size could work within the city of Denver. Perhaps the RockDrill place can turn out like this?
There is some condo or apartment development that's supposed to go in on the south side of Stanley. But otherwise, that whole area is pretty sketch. Bullet proof windows might be advised.
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  #947  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 3:40 PM
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There's been some great publicity about Stanley Marketplace and East Stapleton, etc. In case you missed them, here's two: HERE and HERE
All good for my home value!
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  #948  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 5:03 PM
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Financial Industry Growing in Denver

This is an interesting article, originally from the Wall St. Journal, re-posted by Fox Business:

"Denver's investing sector is growing at twice the national average, bolstered by the expansion of the exchange-traded fund industry."


http://www.foxbusiness.com/features/...cut-costs.html
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  #949  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 7:08 PM
DenverPoke DenverPoke is offline
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Originally Posted by COtoOC View Post
There is some condo or apartment development that's supposed to go in on the south side of Stanley. But otherwise, that whole area is pretty sketch. Bullet proof windows might be advised.
I believe this is what you are referring to:



http://sararch.com/projects/in-progr...sed-project-2/
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  #950  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 7:52 PM
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I went for an interesting tour/talk at Stanley featuring the main creator behind the project. He had some interesting things to share about Forest City and the history of the project. He made it sound like Forest City is pretty much completely uninterested in working with local/startup businesses and prefers to lease to national chains. He had originally simply wanted to open a brewpub in Stapleton, and ended up partnering with other businesses to open the Stanley Marketplace in Aurora when it turned out that there was nowhere in Stapleton-proper that would work.

He also talked about the physical divide between Stanley and Stapleton, how Forest City was VERY unhelpful when it came to bridging that divide, and how he had to basically corner Mayor Hancock, an official from DIA, and a representative from Forest City when he had them all in a room together simply to get them to agree to take the chain-link fence on the property line down (each had been telling him the fence was the other party's responsibility in 1-on-1 conversations). It was all pretty interesting, though I couldn't help but think that simply taking the fence down isn't quite enough. The local road network should be punched through that property line in more places - the furthest west a vehicle can cross is 5 blocks east at Fulton St. Any additional road connections are probably pretty unlikely at this point, which is too bad. At least there are pedestrian trails that cross near Clinton St.
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  #951  
Old Posted Jul 27, 2017, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
I went for an interesting tour/talk at Stanley featuring the main creator behind the project. He had some interesting things to share about Forest City and the history of the project. He made it sound like Forest City is pretty much completely uninterested in working with local/startup businesses and prefers to lease to national chains. He had originally simply wanted to open a brewpub in Stapleton, and ended up partnering with other businesses to open the Stanley Marketplace in Aurora when it turned out that there was nowhere in Stapleton-proper that would work.

He also talked about the physical divide between Stanley and Stapleton, how Forest City was VERY unhelpful when it came to bridging that divide, and how he had to basically corner Mayor Hancock, an official from DIA, and a representative from Forest City when he had them all in a room together simply to get them to agree to take the chain-link fence on the property line down (each had been telling him the fence was the other party's responsibility in 1-on-1 conversations). It was all pretty interesting, though I couldn't help but think that simply taking the fence down isn't quite enough. The local road network should be punched through that property line in more places - the furthest west a vehicle can cross is 5 blocks east at Fulton St. Any additional road connections are probably pretty unlikely at this point, which is too bad. At least there are pedestrian trails that cross near Clinton St.
Interesting. I do like the Beer Garden at Stanley, and the other brewery.

There will be another connector road closer to Stanley. Dayton St. will go through (I think it's Dayton) and it's done. There were still cones up blocking it, but there will be another through street much closer to Stanley.

I can walk from my house to Stanley. It's been great taking the kids over for ice cream or to Bounce.
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  #952  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2017, 3:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
I went for an interesting tour/talk at Stanley featuring the main creator behind the project. He had some interesting things to share about Forest City and the history of the project. He made it sound like Forest City is pretty much completely uninterested in working with local/startup businesses and prefers to lease to national chains. He had originally simply wanted to open a brewpub in Stapleton, and ended up partnering with other businesses to open the Stanley Marketplace in Aurora when it turned out that there was nowhere in Stapleton-proper that would work.

He also talked about the physical divide between Stanley and Stapleton, how Forest City was VERY unhelpful when it came to bridging that divide, and how he had to basically corner Mayor Hancock, an official from DIA, and a representative from Forest City when he had them all in a room together simply to get them to agree to take the chain-link fence on the property line down (each had been telling him the fence was the other party's responsibility in 1-on-1 conversations). It was all pretty interesting, though I couldn't help but think that simply taking the fence down isn't quite enough. The local road network should be punched through that property line in more places - the furthest west a vehicle can cross is 5 blocks east at Fulton St. Any additional road connections are probably pretty unlikely at this point, which is too bad. At least there are pedestrian trails that cross near Clinton St.
It's this same reason I see more potential in Victory Crossing (assuming it ever comes to fruition)/E Commerce City than I do in Northfield. Less regulation and lower costs means more local pop-ups.
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  #953  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2017, 4:13 PM
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It's this same reason I see more potential in Victory Crossing (assuming it ever comes to fruition)/E Commerce City than I do in Northfield. Less regulation and lower costs means more local pop-ups.
Hah! Commerce City is so ass-ed up when it comes to commercial development, plus their sales tax policy is probably the worst in the entire metro area, that it's a wonder that anything has been developed in the city. The total lack of progress at Victory Crossing (amidst one of the largest booms in the state's history) is indicative of this.
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  #954  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2017, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mr1138 View Post
I went for an interesting tour/talk at Stanley featuring the main creator behind the project. He had some interesting things to share about Forest City and the history of the project. He made it sound like Forest City is pretty much completely uninterested in working with local/startup businesses and prefers to lease to national chains. He had originally simply wanted to open a brewpub in Stapleton, and ended up partnering with other businesses to open the Stanley Marketplace in Aurora when it turned out that there was nowhere in Stapleton-proper that would work.
I think that there has been a fundamental shift in the last 3-4 years in how Forest City is developing retail in Stapleton. They've gone from being developer/owner to selling the land and letting local companies take over the process. Eastbridge was developed by a local company (and leased to nothing but local companies). The retail in Conservatory Green is similar with a mix of local stores and national chains (though most are first to market concepts). They have kept control over Northfield, but everything else has been developed locally. Which keeps my hopes up for a beer garden north of I-70 as Forest City seems to have adjusted their development process that was so inflexible that it led to the development of the Stanley.
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  #955  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2017, 4:34 PM
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It's this same reason I see more potential in Victory Crossing (assuming it ever comes to fruition)/E Commerce City than I do in Northfield. Less regulation and lower costs means more local pop-ups.
The other consideration might be how long Forest City plans to retain an ownership stake in what they've already developed. I don't really know what their business model is, but the early commercial space they developed (specifically at the 29th Town Center) is nearing 15 years old, if I remember correctly. They are also nearing complete buildout of the residential neighborhoods and won't need to think about new home sales for much longer. At some point in the future, they may either decide to sell their commercial property to a new landlord, or simply will have recouped their initial investment and loosen up their desire to only rent to national chains. It's kind of the "trickle down" theory of real estate.

I have heard in the past that large developers tend to prefer national chains, because there is more certainty in the leases that they can sign than with startup or local business. But I tend to think that this is also probably more true when a shopping center is new, and things might loosen up as the buildings age. The "newness" will also wear off, and some of the national chains may decide to relocate to newer developments nearby.
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  #956  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2017, 4:40 PM
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I think that there has been a fundamental shift in the last 3-4 years in how Forest City is developing retail in Stapleton. They've gone from being developer/owner to selling the land and letting local companies take over the process. Eastbridge was developed by a local company (and leased to nothing but local companies). The retail in Conservatory Green is similar with a mix of local stores and national chains (though most are first to market concepts). They have kept control over Northfield, but everything else has been developed locally. Which keeps my hopes up for a beer garden north of I-70 as Forest City seems to have adjusted their development process that was so inflexible that it led to the development of the Stanley.
This is interesting too. I actually wasn't aware that Conservatory Green had very much retail.

On another note, one of the things that I have always admired about Northfield is the adaptability of its design. Once the "newness" wears off (as it inevitably always does in mall-like destination retail centers), I could easily see how the back-side of the various blocks, and potentially even some of the surface parking further out could be developed without a need to scrape the entire retail center - which was always the inherent problem with traditional style malls. They have even installed a quasi-urban street grid through the parking lots, which provides the "structure" for this to be able to happen someday.

And this also relates back to my last comment about national retailers vs. local ones. I could see a future where some of the national retailers - including the big box stores - "move on" to newer developments, and could be replaced with local concepts that don't require the same kind of regional draw for customers, as well as the associated parking demands. The parking could be replaced with higher-density residences, and the stores with more everyday kind of retail (like dry cleaners, convenience stores, barber shops, etc.) to serve those residents.

Last edited by mr1138; Jul 28, 2017 at 4:53 PM.
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  #957  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2017, 6:44 PM
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Hah! Commerce City is so ass-ed up when it comes to commercial development, plus their sales tax policy is probably the worst in the entire metro area, that it's a wonder that anything has been developed in the city. The total lack of progress at Victory Crossing (amidst one of the largest booms in the state's history) is indicative of this.
Noob to the area. Other than being a not-very-desirable area, what's the history behind CC's tax policies and business unfriendliness?
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  #958  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2017, 11:01 PM
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I live in Stapleton near the defunct Victory Crossing and have been following the development since 2012 and have talked to Commerce City planning folks, Kroenke folks and Forest City folks, and it isn't really about the fact that it's Commerce City or that it isn't desirable. It's the fact that the developer can't find investors that want to invest in commercial spaces (offices, sports related commercial, retail, etc) without more "roof tops" or more of a regular major destination reason (not just a few soccer games and concerts per year). The numbers just haven't been there to substantiate the investment. The boom in Denver has really been centered around residential, and Victory Crossing had none of that. Commerce City has been wanting to allow residential in the past year or so on that land surrounding Dick's Park, but need Federal/Govt approval and environmental clearance (which shouldn't be a problem) for that land to be used as residential. Then maybe they can get a little commerical/retail, maybe a gym/sports building, etc. It's just too hard to convince investors that it's a good idea to put in ONLY office/commercial/retail in an area that is just blocks away from the large regional retail/hotel/office center of Northfield & Conservatory Green/Wicker Park retail when the population/roof tops around it don't warrant it and it is further away from the major streets/highways. Forest City Stapleton is also in deep talks with companies for leasing/developing the planned small retail center (similar to Conservatory Green) at the corner of Central Park/56th, so there is already a lot of retail (along with hotel/office) nearby or coming soon. Commerce City has received some of the initial approvals needed for the residential they want, and need the testing/environmental results to come back. Then a new official plan will be implemented by Commerce City and Kroenke. My guess is that the area will end up being multi-family residential with a couple office/light warehouse bldgs (since this is in huge demand in Denver) and maybe a gym/sports center to compliment the sports/events vibe of Dick's. If they are lucky, they might be able to get in a little retail off Quebec or 56th if Forest City/Denver/Stapleton hasn't already saturated the area by then.

Additionally, I often see/hear people mention that they can just put in large developments like a new Elitch's, race track, new Western Complex, etc at the Dick's land. I don't think people realize that the land surrounding Dick's isn't that large for things like that. Once you take out all of those soccer/ball fields, it isn't as large of an area as many think! It isn't even that large for things like that if you wipe out the soccer/ball fields.
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Last edited by CONative; Jul 28, 2017 at 11:52 PM.
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  #959  
Old Posted Jul 28, 2017, 11:46 PM
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CONative... Developer/investor/lenders do have their biases and for good reason - according to them.

Hopefully they can ultimately get approval for more residential.


COtoOC... speaking of Stanley Marketplace, yesterday Ashley Dean on Denverite had another fun article.
Sazza and Stanley Marketplace team up on urban farm
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  #960  
Old Posted Jul 30, 2017, 8:57 PM
Alchemist Alchemist is offline
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Stanley is a pretty nice retrofit - but getting there is a bit complicated. And the surrounding neighborhood could use some work. I wish a concept this size could work within the city of Denver. Perhaps the RockDrill place can turn out like this?
First there are the plans for the former Denver Post printing plant off of Fox Street. Tryba Architects is handling the master planning.
https://www.trybaarchitects.com/portfolio/fox-north

A site development plan is under review with the city (2950 units!). Of course, the reuse is not just focused on retail but is supposed to include office and 'maker' spaces. That also has the advantage of being just a few blocks north of the 41st/Fox Street G-Line station.

A little further out in time is what may happen with Burnham Yards, now that Union Pacific has (or will) close it.
https://historicdenver.org/wp-conten...2016-FINAL.pdf
There is an old, large, brick warehouse/factory sized building at roughly 8th and Pecos. It's similar in size to the Stanley building (almost a full square block, if you include the more recent additions on the east side) and could make a large food hall/market a la Chelsea Market. Access would be the challenge there. Consolidation of the rail lines into a single corridor would also really help.

Last edited by Alchemist; Jul 31, 2017 at 6:06 PM.
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