BUFFALO | Development Thread

[sullymon54]

Thanks for the clarification wcp, I admire the city/NFTA's tanacity for developing this site, open parcels of land in North Buffalo are pretty much the only place where a new subdivision could get built and sell at market prices. I know the neighbors are just gonna try to put it down again however maybe that map that you're putting together will include some larger parcels that will not border and therefore not "offend" current residents so that something can get built.

[steel]

Originally Posted by Halovet

Sure economics played a part, but those old rail yards were a big issue back then. Of course, they eventually came down. The point is, I have never seen a time when local preservationist did not come out against a proposal. Or, at least, it sure seems that way.

Preservationists were in favor of renovating the Guaranty Building. It would have been demolished by now without them.

preservationists were in favor of renovating the ECC Campus (Old Post Office) It would have been torn down by now without them

Preservationists were in favor of redeveloping the Squire Mansion. It would have been torn down right now without them.

Preservationists were in favor of restoring the Martin House. It would have been torn down right now without them.

Preservationists were in favor of redeveloping the Mansion Hotel. It would have been torn down right now without them.

Preservationists were in favor of redeveloping Granite Works. It would have been torn down right now without them.

There were two projects that the preservationists were against. They fought against demolishing 4 of the grandest MAnsions on Delaware Avenue to construct a bland office building for IBM. Thank Good for obstructionists. They were also against ramming a highway through the southern end of Allentown.

Seems to me that the kind of obstruction being practiced by preservationists has been pretty good for Buffalo.

[Halovet]

Originally Posted by steel

Preservationists were in favor of renovating the Guaranty Building. It would have been demolished by now without them.

preservationists were in favor of renovating the ECC Campus (Old Post Office) It would have been torn down by now without them

Preservationists were in favor of redeveloping the Squire Mansion. It would have been torn down right now without them.

Preservationists were in favor of restoring the Martin House. It would have been torn down right now without them.

Preservationists were in favor of redeveloping the Mansion Hotel. It would have been torn down right now without them.

Preservationists were in favor of redeveloping Granite Works. It would have been torn down right now without them.

There were two projects that the preservationists were against. They fought against demolishing 4 of the grandest MAnsions on Delaware Avenue to construct a bland office building for IBM. Thank Good for obstructionists. They were also against ramming a highway through the southern end of Allentown.

Seems to me that the kind of obstruction being practiced by preservationists has been pretty good for Buffalo.

I'm sure they have done good things steel, not argueing that point. I guess my complaint is not limited to preservationists, but all those that go out of the way to stop good projects from getting done. Buffalo seems to have more that it's fair share.

[steel]

Projects don't get done in Buffalo because of its weak economy. Preservationists have been influential in getting more projects done in Buffalo than any other group. Preservation of older buildings has been the backbone of new development in Buffalo. The most attractive neighborhoods in the city are those that have the best and most preserved historic buildings. If preservationists are obstructionists it is parking lots that they are obstructing. As for groups that fight projects, as WCP pointed out, they are in every city and usually much better funded than in Buffalo.

[Sulley]

"Also in 1966, and the Bills almost moved to Birmingham."

Do you have any more information about this? I know in 1972, the city was awarded what is now the Tampa Bay Bucs.

[BUFFALOVE!!]

buffalo places 31st on the best cities for singles on forbes.com. check out buffalorising.com for the link.

[FireMedic]

Originally Posted by BUFFALOVE!!

buffalo places 31st on the best cities for singles on forbes.com. check out buffalorising.com for the link.

Forbes magazine ranks Buffalo at 38th out of 40 US cities as the 2nd
highest cost of living. The cost of living in Buffalo is higher then LA, NYC
and Buffalo at 39th out 40 cities with the worst job growth

-------------------------------- Ranks --------------------------------
Rank City Culture Nightlife Singles Job Growth Living Cost Online
9 Dallas-Fort Worth 9 7 37 5 1 6
16 Denver-Aurora 23 17 25 19 1 22
8 Seattle 17 12 24 11 3 20
14 Houston 23 18 29 7 4 1
15 Phoenix 14 13 26 13 5 13
39 Cincinnati 38 32 30 31 5 39
4 Atlanta 12 10 16 6 7 10
19 Columbus 19 25 14 29 8 7
24 Milwaukee 20 29 6 38 8 37
21 Detroit 16 16 18 25 10 32
34 Jacksonville 40 39 39 16 11 14
27 St. Louis 9 21 20 27 12 34
33 Virginia Beach-Norfolk 34 36 33 24 12 28
37 Kansas City 28 30 38 25 12 29
7 San Diego 13 11 19 17 15 4
23 Memphis 39 38 2 21 15 27
36 Salt Lake City 35 40 36 10 15 36
17 New Orleans 18 14 1 37 18 38
25 Sacramento 21 34 22 8 18 18
1 San Francisco-Oakland 1 2 5 23 20 5
11 Boston 5 9 11 34 20 35
5 Chicago 4 4 12 32 22 2
10 Philadelphia 7 8 9 32 22 17
2 New York 3 1 8 30 24 3
3 Los Angeles 2 3 4 28 24 11
26 Baltimore 15 19 13 22 24 30
35 Pittsburgh 22 27 34 36 27 26
12 Minneapolis-St. Paul 9 20 15 20 28 25
30 Indianapolis 30 28 27 15 29 16
6 Washington 6 6 7 18 30 19
18 Las Vegas 33 15 31 2 30 12
22 Orlando 37 26 17 4 32 24
12 Austin 36 35 3 1 33 9
40 Providence 26 33 23 35 33 40
32 Tampa-St. Petersburg 29 22 40 14 35 23
20 Miami 8 5 35 9 36 21
37 Cleveland 27 24 21 40 37 33
29 Portland 25 23 32 12 38 15
31 Buffalo 31 37 10 39 38 31
28 San Antonio 32 31 28 3 40 8

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2007/3/f...gleRank_2.html

[Downtown Bolivar]

^^^We're just about the smallest city on that list though. (I think SLC is still smaller) I think its just cool that we actually still get included in these top 40 or 50 lists. Be cool Firemedic.

And by the way, we're beginning to see consistent (albeit slow) job growth as trend, something the area has not experienced for many years. It's also notable as we are still bleeding thousands of manufacturing jobs.

[sullymon54]

How do we have the second highest cost of living when every other list that i have ever seen says the complete opposite?

The Job growth stat makes more sense, however I do agree with downtown, thanks to consistent growth in areas like back office financial services/call centers and the medical fields the number of jobs has grown slowly.

[Halovet]

Originally Posted by Sulley

"Also in 1966, and the Bills almost moved to Birmingham."

Do you have any more information about this? I know in 1972, the city was awarded what is now the Tampa Bay Bucs.

I tried, but could not find it. That was a long time ago, and it may have been one of Mr. Wilson's plots to get his way with local leadership. In response to Downtown Bolivar's post:

"I think its just cool that we actually still get included in these top 40 or 50 lists." It's going to take many years, if ever for people to believe Buffalo is some sort of small town. Buffalo was (and probably still is) top 40 city for a hell of a lot longer than what folks consider it is today. A great example would be New Orleans, currently with a population less than Buffalo's, but you cought Salt Lake, and forgot NOLA. In truth, there is no way in hell Buffalo is as small as believed. Buffalo is a hell of a lot bigger than Fort Wayne, and that's just that. I'm willing to bet there's a hispanic, legal or otherwise, that has replaced everyone that left over the years. I don't buy the BS.

[Sulley]

Originally Posted by sullymon54

How do we have the second highest cost of living when every other list that i have ever seen says the complete opposite?

The Job growth stat makes more sense, however I do agree with downtown, thanks to consistent growth in areas like back office financial services/call centers and the medical fields the number of jobs has grown slowly.

Because wages are extremely low in Buffalo vs. the rest of the nation. Cost of living isn't that low, either. Seriously.

Thanks, halo.

[BUFFALOVE!!]

Originally Posted by Sulley

Because wages are extremely low in Buffalo vs. the rest of the nation. Cost of living isn't that low, either. Seriously.

Thanks, halo.

yeah my ass. i just spent a week in new orleans at my friends appartment. one story house in a transition neighborhood, one bed and one bath shot gun/ rail road house. you have to walk through the bedroom to get to the kitchen. $750 a month with out utilities. you can live in the sidway building in downtown for that much.

[Sulley]

Right. You are aware of what happened in New Orleans and the after-effects it created, correct?

Just curious... because New Orleans can't even be compared to anywhere else at the moment.

[Halovet]

Originally Posted by Sulley

Right. You are aware of what happened in New Orleans and the after-effects it created, correct?

Just curious... New Orleans can't even be compared to anywhere else at the moment.

Indeed, a city can be devastated, in NOLA's case, overnight. Which, as sulley has pointed out, puts it in a class by itself.

I believe both Buffalo and New Orleans, are STILL big cities. Both have fallen on hard times to say the least, one slowly, from economics resulting from a death blow dealt with the construction of The St. Lawrence Seaway, the other, a natural disaster. Both still have the natural DNA of large cities, and it's only a matter of time before they return. Now, it might take several years in Buffalo's case, but a rebound I believe is underway. It didn't go under over night, and sure as hell won't recover overnight, but with perseverance of dedicated civic leadership (badly needed in both cities) I believe it can fly. The NOLA corruption machine, at least 200 years old, needs to be rooted out. That alone could make New Orleans's rebound as slow as Buffalo's.

[Austinlee]

Buffalove: Your screenname sounds like a beastiality sex act... Disgusting.

[westcoastperspective]

double post- see next.

[westcoastperspective]

Rumor time...
Everyone has heard that Issa is talking to a firm to anchor City Tower. First there was talk it was an out-of-town company. Then we heard it was local. The latest buzz is that the firm is indeed local, and is negotiating for a substantial portion of the office space. If signed, the Tower will start sooner rather than later. It would be a complicated deal involving musical buildings- Issa would potentially buy the tenant's building from them. I've heard a name mentioned, but don't want to name them and potentially sink a deal.

[Sulley]

Oh, M&T's new HQ. Cool.

[Sgt. Sabre]

Originally Posted by Sulley

Because wages are extremely low in Buffalo vs. the rest of the nation. Cost of living isn't that low, either. Seriously.

Define extremely. What, a couple thousand bucks? +/-5%? Geesh. A county like Afghanistan has extreme poverty relative to developed nations.

As for cost of living - it's quite low, believe me. I bet you when it all comes down in terms of economy, it's that same 5% or more less than the national average. Even with utility and property taxation, the equivalent value still beats many other areas. Many areas you can't even buy a shitbox for $200k, where's the value in that? Ohhh, I make $5,000/yr more and get taxed 0.5% less. Whoopidy doo. Crap, even groceries tend to be cheaper (except milk, thank you ethanol - of course that's everywhere).

Maybe if we didn't all rely on non-existant money from risky assets such as housing value appreciation, we wouldn't be in the grips of a mortgage crisis in this country. Something Buffalo is somehow relatively blessedly free of.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Sulley

Oh, M&T's new HQ. Cool.

Never ASSUME. it just makes an ASS out of U and Me (wait, just you!)