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  #81  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 11:35 AM
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So you are comparing The Sun and Bild to Le Monde?
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  #82  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by pricemazda
So you are comparing The Sun and Bild to Le Monde?

No, Metropolitan knows what I'm refering to.

He was talking of TF1 and the news on it (Jean Pierre Pernaut being the guy the French see for decades)


The first post, with the articles, was for you as you asked what was on the top news.

The second one was for Metropolitan. As to compare medias let's take the most followed ones.
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  #83  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 11:51 AM
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What's still making headlines in Germany is the Gammelfleisch Skandal, the scandal about rotten meat being sold and exported. I guess nobody mentions Romania and Bulgaria because even within the EU people aren't exactly enthusiastic about this wave of enlargement.
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  #84  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 12:16 PM
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Thanks Kampf, I am going to look forward to my Huhn dinner tonight...
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  #85  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dear Leader
All I need to name is 1...language.
So what you are trying to tell me here is that all you need is a single language to define a country? So… what exactly is Belgium? Two nations? What about Spain, Switzerland, Canada etc.
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  #86  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 12:26 PM
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Again, I don't think so. The suburbanite from Belgrade speaks a language I don't understand and probably has a set of values that differes a lot from mine. Most Germans probably agree with me since they're dead set against Serbian EU membership.
The interesting point about Serbia is that it is quite an economically poor country. Many Germans are worried that floods of Serbians will cross into Germany and take their jobs. This has less to do with cultural differences than to do with fear.

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Originally Posted by The Dear Leader
As I've said before, cars and clothing do not mean that much to me, but even in this scenario there's neither a pan-European taste nor are you able to exclude NA from it. People wear American brands just like Americans wear European brands. And there were plenty of stores in France, Belgium and other countries that I've never seen in Germany. I also don't get a hard on just because I've spotted a German store somewhere in Italy.
And this defines a culture or country? Fashions differ across Europe no more widely than they do across the US. People in Southern Europe dress for the warmer weather, and people in Northern Europe dress for the cooler climate. Just like those in Florida dress quite different to those in Detroit. Should the US split up as a nation because of this?
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  #87  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 12:29 PM
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So… what exactly is Belgium? Two nations? What about Spain, Switzerland, Canada etc.
Belgium...might fall apart at any moment and the Flemings in particular might argue that they are indeed a separate nation. Same thing applies to Spain and Canada to a certain extent. The only country that's really been able to pull off this multilingual thing is Switzerland, largely because it's so decentralized. Every canton is almost like an independent country.

However, why the hell do people have to live in the same country just because they listen to the same music or wear the same clothes, after all that's the argument that some people are putting forth in this thread.

Last edited by The Dear Leader; Sep 26, 2006 at 12:36 PM.
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  #88  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by one very bored guy
And this defines a culture or country? Fashions differ across Europe no more widely than they do across the US. People in Southern Europe dress for the warmer weather, and people in Northern Europe dress for the cooler climate. Just like those in Florida dress quite different to those in Detroit. Should the US split up as a nation because of this?
As I wrote in my post, clothing isn't exactly an important factor in my opinion (contrary to other people). Americans don't see themselves as being part of a nation just because the guy in the next state's wearing the same brand of jeans. The Civil War didn't take place because southerners were fed up with the taste in clothing that northerners had.

Being part of a nation is something that you feel, perhaps a state of mind. When Spain and the UK suffered terrorist attacks, I felt bad for them, but a terrorist attack in Berlin or Munich would have been much more shocking for me.

To summarize: Using clothing, cars, music etc. to support your argument people somehow have the same strictly defined (ie solely European, not Western) culture is foolish.

Last edited by The Dear Leader; Sep 26, 2006 at 12:42 PM.
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  #89  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 1:18 PM
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USE?
Yes, please.
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  #90  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 3:01 PM
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Kampf, what about the UK, we are a multi lingual country.
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  #91  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 3:08 PM
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I'm sure you people can make the distinction between countries with a few native languages (emmigration languages don't count because they don't bring nationalism with them).

And a country like what would the EU be with a full loads of "national" languages, adding the regional languages.

It's like comparing a V2 from WWII and an apocalypse dildo of 1megatons in capacity because both are ballistic missiles. The comparison is just given irrelevant because of the difference of scale.
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  #92  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 3:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pricemazda
Kampf, what about the UK, we are a multi lingual country.
Come on, a couple of Welsh speaking farmers do not make you a multilingual country. In that case Germany's multilingual (Sorbian, Danish) as well.
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  #93  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 3:15 PM
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But Kampf on all official documents we have 4 languages Irish, Welsh, Scottish Gaelic and English. The BBC provides radio in all languages and there is government funded by the government.

India has over 600 languages, South Africa over 30.

It is perfectly possible to have a multi linguistic state. But as the French are finding in Brussels the language all the eurocrats converse in is English.

I can see a situation where English becomes the language of business, government, academia etc while we all retain domestic languages.
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  #94  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 3:30 PM
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Anyway the USE won't happen with a signing of a treaty and overnight all 25 nations disappear. It will occur gradually, so one day we will look back and realise we are basically operating as one country.
No thanks.
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  #95  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 3:37 PM
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No thanks too, leave countries following their own policy.

Thanks to the meeting Saturday between France-Germany and Russia, fuel (which I use to warm me up, since I live in the countryside) fell from 700€ to 640€ the cube metres for these very last few days... That's a call for refuelling. At least I won't freeze my balls this winter .
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  #96  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 5:34 PM
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Originally Posted by pricemazda
But Kampf on all official documents we have 4 languages Irish, Welsh, Scottish Gaelic and English. The BBC provides radio in all languages and there is government funded by the government.

India has over 600 languages, South Africa over 30.

It is perfectly possible to have a multi linguistic state. But as the French are finding in Brussels the language all the eurocrats converse in is English.

I can see a situation where English becomes the language of business, government, academia etc while we all retain domestic languages.
Where's the Welsh page?

http://www.number-10.gov.uk/output/Page1.asp
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  #97  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Exarchus
No thanks too, leave countries following their own policy.

Thanks to the meeting Saturday between France-Germany and Russia, fuel (which I use to warm me up, since I live in the countryside) fell from 700€ to 640€ the cube metres for these very last few days... That's a call for refuelling. At least I won't freeze my balls this winter .
God bless Vladimir Putin, a true ally of Europe!
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  #98  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 5:57 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dear Leader
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welsh_Language_Act_1993
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  #99  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 6:02 PM
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Originally Posted by The Dear Leader
Algeria...and various other struggles for independence.
Ergo, they were not countries yet...




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But that's the thing. There's western culture and then there are regional cultures (even here in Germany the north is pretty different from the staunchly Catholic south). Who cares were they got their culture from, fact of the matter is that you can't just draw a line and say "oh, that's specifically European, all other continents are excluded." I wrote this in a previous post but please tell me which sort of values Germany and Bulgaria share, values which we don't share with Canada or the US.
Stop pretending that history didn't exist between 1000 BC - 1776 AD.
Stop pretending that there are no VAST regional differences in the US (or India for that matter).
Stop using the cultural similarities in the western world to deny there is also a specific European heritage/culture/shared history which goes even deeper then "western culture" (but of which it is a part of and founder if you will). Yes Bulgaria has very much more in common with Germany then the US and the gap between the US and Germany is only widening atm, while the gap between Bulgaria and the rest of Europe is narrowing. Don't let the difference in economical (and sometimes social) development fool you.




Quote:
Again, I don't think so. The suburbanite from Belgrade speaks a language I don't understand and probably has a set of values that differes a lot from mine. Most Germans probably agree with me since they're dead set against Serbian EU membership.
You both speak English, but that's besides the point. I guess India being a nation is a fabrication of our fantasy to then right?
Being against Serbian membership is mostly because of political (or economical) reasons, not cultural ones.



Quote:
As I've said before, cars and clothing do not mean that much to me, but even in this scenario there's neither a pan-European taste nor are you able to exclude NA from it. People wear American brands just like Americans wear European brands. And there were plenty of stores in France, Belgium and other countries that I've never seen in Germany. I also don't get a hard on just because I've spotted a German store somewhere in Italy.
It's not just clothes and cars. It's everything. Europeans are exposed to European brands, sportsteams, cars, music, tv, movies, etc etc, everyday in a far greater volume and frequency then we are exposed to even US culture. The opposite applies too. Americans are largely oblivious to these things because they are exposed to their own brands, sportsteams, movies, cars, music, tv, movies, etc.
We know eachothers politicians, we know eachothers sportsteams. Everyone knows Nestle, Danone, Riedel, Aldi, etc. We grew up watching German cartoons and British comedy. The next generation is growing up going to universities scattered all over Europe, earning European wide degrees, getting jobs all over Europe, living all over Europe. They are not going to give a shit about silly nationalism.
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  #100  
Old Posted Sep 26, 2006, 6:04 PM
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Even Kampf can't deny that going to the US really makes you aware of what is 'european'.

I know from my time their I realised that everything from architecture to music to fashion, to politics even us Brits are way more european than we think we are.
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